Getting involved in Christmas as a Muslim - Islam Veiwpoint

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Christmas is Pagan.
That's garbage as is your next post. Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ. Our Lord, the son of God.

The lines you've uttered could've just as easily as have been uttered by an Islamaphobhic US Fundamentalist Christian, who's adopted the puritanical extremist Protestant thinking first openly espoused by Oliver Crimeell 500 years ago.
 
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Christmas is Pagan.

Christmas has nothing to do with Jesus Christ.

That's garbage as is your next post. Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ. Our Lord, the son of God.

The lines you've uttered could've just as easily as have been uttered by an Islamaphobhic US Fundamentalist Christian, who's adopted the puritanical extremist Protestant thinking first openly espoused by Oliver Crimeell 500 years ago.

The very fact that Christians attribute a son to God, and worship him, is seen by Muslims as polytheistic or some would say pagan; worshipping of more than one deity, namely Jesus and God. You'd probably want to refute that here, but as there are many threads in comparative religion where this has been mentioned and discussed ad nauseum already, if necessary that can be done there by using the search function.

You may not like that, but that is the truth. It is an allegation against God that is so serious, that He says:

They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son."
Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous.
At it the skies are ready to burst, the earth to split asunder, and the mountains to fall down in utter ruin,
That they attribute to the Most Merciful a son.
For it is not consonant with the majesty of (Allah) Most Gracious that He should beget a son.
There is no one in the heavens and earth but that he comes to the Most Merciful as a servant.
(19:88-93)

Further, that He may warn those (also) who say, "Allah hath begotten a son":
No knowledge have they of such a thing, nor had their fathers. It is a grievous thing that issues from their mouths as a saying; what they say is nothing but falsehood.
(18:4-5)

As to the second post, it is also true, Jesus (peace be upon him) didn't celebrate Christmas, nor told others to do so - it's not a practice that stems from him, nor was his command. He would not be familiar with it any respect. In that sense, it has nothing to do with him.

You see in Islam, these are the main points regarding the concept of God:

There is only One God. He alone should be worshipped. He is our Creator, Sustainer, Cherisher, and Lord. No being, no object, nothing other than Him, is worthy of prayer/worship.

He does not beget, nor is He begotten. He has no sons, daughters, siblings, parents, cousins, or relatives of any sort.

He is eternal and does not die.

He does not depend on anyone/anything yet we all depend on Him. He is free of all want and need, and has never been helpless or depended on anyone. He feeds us, and is not fed.

There is nothing like Him. He is all Hearing, all Seeing, all Knowing, all Powerful, the Creator of the Universe.

He did not and does not, dwell in human or animal bodies, nor are there any incarnations of Him. He is not mixed up in His creation in any way.

He is not composed of persons, nor a trinity.
There are no secondary, lesser, greater, equal, or multiple gods, no intermediaries, and no denying of God's existence either.

There are no sharers or associates or parts whatsoever in His exclusive Divinity. Simply, He is One, in every sense.

We believe that every prophet including Jesus (peace be upon him) taught the same.

I hope you can see where we are coming from.

Peace.
 
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That's garbage as is your next post. Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ. Our Lord, the son of God.

The lines you've uttered could've just as easily as have been uttered by an Islamaphobhic US Fundamentalist Christian, who's adopted the puritanical extremist Protestant thinking first openly espoused by Oliver Crimeell 500 years ago.

how could you possibly sport a user name such as veritas, and yet be so distant from the truth? and propaganda to boot, attributing the truthful pagan origins of Christmas to Cromwell! perhaps you'd consider a new user name? Bernays, perhaps!

if you wish to save your user name, perhaps you could provide us with the following:

1) a Biblical reference to Santa Claus

2) a Biblical reference to decorating a Christmas tree

3) a Biblical reference to the use of mistletoe

4) a Biblical reference to Jesus being born on Dec 25th

5) ANY verified historical reference to Jesus being born on the 25th

6) a Biblical reference to Jesus celebrating Christmas

7) a Biblical reference to any Apostle celebrating Christmas

8) the first date in history that you are aware of that Christians celebrated Christmas

9) the date that the Catholic Church adopted Christmas as a holiday

10) any historical research that you've done on the subject

11) the day and year you believe Jesus was born

When was Jesus born?

A. Popular myth puts his birth on December 25th in the year 1 C.E.

B. The New Testament gives no date or year for Jesus’ birth. The earliest gospel – St. Mark’s, written about 65 CE – begins with the baptism of an adult Jesus. This suggests that the earliest Christians lacked interest in or knowledge of Jesus’ birthdate.

C. The year of Jesus birth was determined by Dionysius Exiguus, a Scythian monk, “abbot of a Roman monastery. His calculation went as follows:

a. In the Roman, pre-Christian era, years were counted from ab urbe condita (“the founding of the City” [Rome]). Thus 1 AUC signifies the year Rome was founded, 5 AUC signifies the 5th year of Rome’s reign, etc.

b. Dionysius received a tradition that the Roman emperor Augustus reigned 43 years, and was followed by the emperor Tiberius.

c. Luke 3:1,23 indicates that when Jesus turned 30 years old, it was the 15th year of Tiberius reign.

d. If Jesus was 30 years old in Tiberius’ reign, then he lived 15 years under Augustus (placing Jesus birth in Augustus’ 28th year of reign).

e. Augustus took power in 727 AUC. Therefore, Dionysius put Jesus birth in 754 AUC.

f. However, Luke 1:5 places Jesus’ birth in the days of Herod, and Herod died in 750 AUC – four years before the year in which Dionysius places Jesus birth.

D. Joseph A. Fitzmyer – Professor Emeritus of Biblical Studies at the Catholic University of America, member of the Pontifical Biblical Commission, and former president of the Catholic Biblical Association – writing in the Catholic Church’s official commentary on the New Testament[1], writes about the date of Jesus’ birth, “Though the year [of Jesus birth is not reckoned with certainty, the birth did not occur in AD 1. The Christian era, supposed to have its starting point in the year of Jesus birth, is based on a miscalculation introduced ca. 533 by Dionysius Exiguus.”

E. The DePascha Computus, an anonymous document believed to have been written in North Africa around 243 CE, placed Jesus birth on March 28. Clement, a bishop of Alexandria (d. ca. 215 CE), thought Jesus was born on November 18. Based on historical records, Fitzmyer guesses that Jesus birth occurred on September 11, 3 BCE.

How Did Christmas Come to Be Celebrated on December 25?

A. Roman pagans first introduced the holiday of Saturnalia, a week long period of lawlessness celebrated between December 17-25. During this period, Roman courts were closed, and Roman law dictated that no one could be punished for damaging property or injuring people during the weeklong celebration. The festival began when Roman authorities chose “an enemy of the Roman people” to represent the “Lord of Misrule.” Each Roman community selected a victim whom they forced to indulge in food and other physical pleasures throughout the week. At the festival’s conclusion, December 25th, Roman authorities believed they were destroying the forces of darkness by brutally murdering this innocent man or woman.

B. The ancient Greek writer poet and historian Lucian (in his dialogue entitled Saturnalia) describes the festival’s observance in his time. In addition to human sacrifice, he mentions these customs: widespread intoxication; going from house to house while singing naked; rape and other sexual license; and consuming human-shaped biscuits (still produced in some English and most German bakeries during the Christmas season).

C. In the 4th century CE, Christianity imported the Saturnalia festival hoping to take the pagan masses in with it. Christian leaders succeeded in converting to Christianity large numbers of pagans by promising them that they could continue to celebrate the Saturnalia as Christians.[2]

D. The problem was that there was nothing intrinsically Christian about Saturnalia. To remedy this, these Christian leaders named Saturnalia’s concluding day, December 25th, to be Jesus’ birthday.

E. Christians had little success, however, refining the practices of Saturnalia. As Stephen Nissenbaum, professor history at the University of Massachussetts, Amherst, writes, “In return for ensuring massive observance of the anniversary of the Savior’s birth by assigning it to this resonant date, the Church for its part tacitly agreed to allow the holiday to be celebrated more or less the way it had always been.” The earliest Christmas holidays were celebrated by drinking, sexual indulgence, singing naked in the streets (a precursor of modern caroling), etc.

F. The Reverend Increase Mather of Boston observed in 1687 that “the early Christians who first observed the Nativity on December 25 did not do so thinking that Christ was born in that Month, but because the Heathens’ Saturnalia was at that time kept in Rome, and they were willing to have those Pagan Holidays metamorphosed into Christian ones.”[3] Because of its known pagan origin, Christmas was banned by the Puritans and its observance was illegal in Massachusetts between 1659 and 1681.[4] However, Christmas was and still is celebrated by most Christians.

G. Some of the most depraved customs of the Saturnalia carnival were intentionally revived by the Catholic Church in 1466 when Pope Paul II, for the amusement of his Roman citizens, forced Jews to race naked through the streets of the city. An eyewitness account reports, “Before they were to run, the Jews were richly fed, so as to make the race more difficult for them and at the same time more amusing for spectators. They ran… amid Rome’s taunting shrieks and peals of laughter, while the Holy Father stood upon a richly ornamented balcony and laughed heartily.”[5]

H. As part of the Saturnalia carnival throughout the 18th and 19th centuries CE, rabbis of the ghetto in Rome were forced to wear clownish outfits and march through the city streets to the jeers of the crowd, pelted by a variety of missiles. When the Jewish community of Rome sent a petition in1836 to Pope Gregory XVI begging him to stop the annual Saturnalia abuse of the Jewish community, he responded, “It is not opportune to make any innovation.”[6] On December 25, 1881, Christian leaders whipped the Polish masses into Antisemitic frenzies that led to riots across the country. In Warsaw 12 Jews were brutally murdered, huge numbers maimed, and many Jewish women were raped. Two million rubles worth of property was destroyed.

The Origin of Santa Claus

a. Nicholas was born in Parara, Turkey in 270 CE and later became Bishop of Myra. He died in 345 CE on December 6th. He was only named a saint in the 19th century.

b. Nicholas was among the most senior bishops who convened the Council of Nicaea in 325 CE and created the New Testament. The text they produced portrayed Jews as “the children of the devil”[11] who sentenced Jesus to death.

c. In 1087, a group of sailors who idolized Nicholas moved his bones from Turkey to a sanctuary in Bari, Italy. There Nicholas supplanted a female boon-giving deity called The Grandmother, or Pasqua Epiphania, who used to fill the children's stockings with her gifts. The Grandmother was ousted from her shrine at Bari, which became the center of the Nicholas cult. Members of this group gave each other gifts during a pageant they conducted annually on the anniversary of Nicholas’ death, December 6.

d. The Nicholas cult spread north until it was adopted by German and Celtic pagans. These groups worshipped a pantheon led by Woden –their chief god and the father of Thor, Balder, and Tiw. Woden had a long, white beard and rode a horse through the heavens one evening each Autumn. When Nicholas merged with Woden, he shed his Mediterranean appearance, grew a beard, mounted a flying horse, rescheduled his flight for December, and donned heavy winter clothing.

e. In a bid for pagan adherents in Northern Europe, the Catholic Church adopted the Nicholas cult and taught that he did (and they should) distribute gifts on December 25th instead of December 6th.

f. In 1809, the novelist Washington Irving (most famous his The Legend of Sleepy Hollow and Rip Van Winkle) wrote a satire of Dutch culture entitled Knickerbocker History. The satire refers several times to the white bearded, flying-horse riding Saint Nicholas using his Dutch name, Santa Claus.

g. Dr. Clement Moore, a professor at Union Seminary, read Knickerbocker History, and in 1822 he published a poem based on the character Santa Claus: “Twas the night before Christmas, when all through the house, not a creature was stirring, not even a mouse. The stockings were hung by the chimney with care, in the hope that Saint Nicholas soon would be there…” Moore innovated by portraying a Santa with eight reindeer who descended through chimneys.

h. The Bavarian illustrator Thomas Nast almost completed the modern picture of Santa Claus. From 1862 through 1886, based on Moore’s poem, Nast drew more than 2,200 cartoon images of Santa for Harper’s Weekly. Before Nast, Saint Nicholas had been pictured as everything from a stern looking bishop to a gnome-like figure in a frock. Nast also gave Santa a home at the North Pole, his workshop filled with elves, and his list of the good and bad children of the world. All Santa was missing was his red outfit.

i. In 1931, the Coca Cola Corporation contracted the Swedish commercial artist Haddon Sundblom to create a coke-drinking Santa. Sundblom modeled his Santa on his friend Lou Prentice, chosen for his cheerful, chubby face. The corporation insisted that Santa’s fur-trimmed suit be bright, Coca Cola red. And Santa was born – a blend of Christian crusader, pagan god, and commercial idol.

and on and on...

have a nice day!:D

http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/Christmas_TheRealStory.htm
 
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I'm not American ... thank God. :D ... and Christmas in the non-American world hasn't been so appallingly prostituted as it has been there.

Christmas Day is the celebration of the birth of Christ. Like it it lump it. :D

Given your post, I'm assuming your quite young.

Have a nice day too.

God bless.
 
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I can understand not celebrating it but what's wrong with acknowledging it like saying "Merry Christmas" to passersby in the street?
 
I'm not American ... thank God. :D ... and Christmas in the non-American world hasn't been so appallingly prostituted as it has been there.

Thanks for exposing yourself as a closed minded troll ... nice!

Christmas Day is the celebration of the birth of Christ. Like it it lump it. :D

Given your post, I'm assuming your quite young.

Have a nice day too.

God bless.

i'm 54. by the way. old enough to have researched the Christmas origins for decades.

you mention trolling, well is "Like it or lump it" your idea of scholarly research?

pick any 3 of the items below and do a little homework. you know how to use a search engine, i presume? it isn't difficult, just type "pagan origins of Christmas" into ANY search engine of your choice. it should only take a little time.

1) a Biblical reference to Santa Claus

2) a Biblical reference to decorating a Christmas tree

3) a Biblical reference to the use of mistletoe

4) a Biblical reference to Jesus being born on Dec 25th

5) ANY verified historical reference to Jesus being born on the 25th

6) a Biblical reference to Jesus celebrating Christmas

7) a Biblical reference to any Apostle celebrating Christmas

8) the first date in history that you are aware of that Christians celebrated Christmas

9) the date that the Catholic Church adopted Christmas as a holiday

10) any historical research that you've done on the subject

11) the day and year you believe Jesus was born

ta ta!
 
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I can understand not celebrating it but what's wrong with acknowledging it like saying "Merry Christmas" to passersby in the street?








because by saying "Merry Christmas" you are acknowledging that isa (AS) (jesus christ) was born on Christmas and is the son of god, which is a form of shirk. Muslims should not say Merry Christmas or partake in any forms of Christmas.

In Sha Allah that answers your question.
 
Since this thread has now degenerated into insults, with points made being ignored or not addressed, I'm closing it. There have been ample posts, short and long, on why Muslims do not celebrate Christmas or get involved in it.
 
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