(CNN) -- the Iraq War was a war for oil

[GuestFellow]

^ Woah I'm surprised. Most people are not aware of Suttons book. You know your stuff. *hugs*

 

[Jedi_Mindset]

^ Woah I'm surprised. Most people are not aware of Suttons book. You know your stuff. *hugs*

Books are always top-priority bro, however its not good to always ignore analysis on the internet. There are pretty good sites out there like www.globalresearch.net

anyway, its even more better to not take your trusts in what they say or do or by following geopolitical movements, observing agenda's is something better and can you make 'see' more things.

 

[GuestFellow]

^ Well I just use books to help me find primary sources. I really rely on primary sources, but books help me to get there. Primary sources for me include official government documents, tapes, recording or whatever.

I like that website, global research.

 

[IAmZamzam]

Dont forget the nazi empire, most people today will see our posts as being paranoid, however WW2 was engineered to secure and create the state of 'israel' in its form. By playing the holocaust trick, the jews would find a reason to invade arab lands. The colonization of the british and french paved the way of this, also by creating rebellions commited by khawarijtes to destroy the ottoman caliphate.

There is a book how the zionists and wall street funded hitler and his allies:

http://www.reformed-theology.org/html/books/wall_street/

After WW2 nazi scientists even the ones who worked on V2 rockets were shipped to the US by the CIA to work on their space program and other nasty experiments like MK-ultra. result: NASA was born and the TV was born.

US creates its enemies and indeed it does. However the USSR was never really a US-enemy, it only was concurrention in the search of resources but a WW3 was never on the card, it was only destined to divide and make people take sides. Most wars during that time were proxy-battles. Like the contras who killed, massacred civilians in nicaragua. Dont believe in the words of politicans, they're decievers and only want to bring destruction on this world. And the ones who wake up, get framed, get accused, get labeled as being the bad guy. Sure, most of those who wake up arent genuine either like Saddam hussein, but they will always hide their real objectives.

The proxy wars have never stopped though. Look at today.

I...I don't even know where to begin. So I guess I'm not gonna.

 

[GuestFellow]

I...I don't even know where to begin. So I guess I'm not gonna.

Good. Your input is not necessary.

 

[Abu Loren]

No. =) Not at all.

Unlike most people, I read books from a variety of sources and try to gain as much knowledge as I can. Then I sit back and read members posts who make a fool of themselves by posting utter gibberish. ^_^

Try reading some books. It may help you but I doubt anything can penetrate your thick head.

So that's why nobody takes you seriously here, you have nothing constructive to add?

 

[Abu Loren]

Good. Your input is not necessary.

You are beginning to be annoying now. You have to make a silly comment on every post? And I thought you were a cute and cuddly type of person.

 

[Jedi_Mindset]

I...I don't even know where to begin. So I guess I'm not gonna.

Guess because you have basically nothing to say? Its always shocking for you to see stuff people talk about which isnt discussed in Mainstream Bollocks like CNN, BBC et cetera. History explained by schoolbooks often contain lies and other deceptions.

So that's why nobody takes you seriously here, you have nothing constructive to add?

Come on lads, this is not the way to discuss, just throwing words at each other keep it civil.

Anyway, i feel like MR.independent is going to add something 'constructive' to this thread soon.

 

[Independent]

Some speculate Saddam was encouraged to invade Kuwait.

There was tension between Iraq and Kuwait in the run-up to the war. Saddam felt Kuwait was pumping too much oil and depressing prices. He was desperate for income in the aftermath of the Iran war. There was also long-standing border disputes over the Rumalia oil field, which is close to Kuwait.

There is a story that Saddam wanted to seize some of the disputed border oil fields and that the US gave him the 'green light' to do so - not directly encouraging him, but indicating it wouldn't make a serious fuss if that's what happened.

However, in the event Saddam got greedy and took the whole country, and the rest is history.

 

[GuestFellow]

So that's why nobody takes you seriously here, you have nothing constructive to add?

NO! PLEASE TAKE ME SERIOUSLY!

You are beginning to be annoying now.

I'm gonna put a spell on you.

There is a story that Saddam wanted to seize some of the disputed border oil fields and that the US gave him the 'green light' to do so - not directly encouraging him, but indicating it wouldn't make a serious fuss if that's what happened.

I see. Do you know where I can read more about this? I mean like an article or some sort of book.

 

[Independent]

I see. Do you know where I can read more about this? I mean like an article or some sort of book.

I'll have a hunt - this was stuff I read 20 years ago, soon after the war.

 

[GuestFellow]

THANK YOU! I appreciate it. That's very kind of you.

 

[Independent]

Do you know where I can read more about this? I mean like an article or some sort of book.

Looking around I remember that the issue was also about direct Iraq access to the Gulf (by taking Kuwaiti territory). Also, Kuwait had lent a great deal of money to Iraq to fight the Iran war and wanted payback. Saddam claimed that Kuwait had been 'stealing' the Rumalia oil by drilling slantwise under the border and therefore they shouldn't pay. Further back in history, Iraq laid claim to the whole of Kuwait as part of Basra province (the Ottoman division).

Saddam's crucial error was to turn a border dispute into the seizure of an entire sovereign country.

I have found a few things online such as this referring to the changing situation after the end of the Iran/Iraq war:

US strategy failed to adjust to the fact that Iraq had become the most dangerous and aggressive country in the Persian Gulf. Thus when Saddam Hussein began massing troops near its border with Kuwait in July 1990, American Ambassador to Kuwait April Gillespie told him: "we have no opinion on the Arab-Arab conflicts like your border disagreement with Kuwait." Essentially the Ambassador was signaling that if Iraq moved against Kuwait, it was not the concern of the United States. No one will ever know whether a sterner diplomatic posture by the American government would have deterred Saddam.

http://books.google.ie/books?id=MO7...#v=onepage&q=rumaila oil field saddam&f=false

Also this:

On September 18, 1990, the Iraqi Foreign Ministry published verbatim the transcripts of meetings between Saddam Hussein and high level U.S. officials. Knight-Ridder columnist James McCartney acknowledged that the transcripts were not disputed by the U.S. State Department. U.S. Ambassador April Glaspie informed Hussein that, "We have no opinion on...conflicts like your border disagreement with Kuwait." She reiterated this position several times, and added, "Secretary of State James Baker has directed our official spokesman to emphasize this instruction." A week before Iraq's invasion of Kuwait, Baker's spokesperson, Margaret Tutwiler and Assistant Secretary of State John Kelly both stated publicly that "the United States was not obligated to come to Kuwait's aid if it were attacked." (Santa Barbara News-Press September 24, 1990 cited in [1]).

Two days before the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait, Assistant Secretary of State John Kelly testified before the House Foreign Affairs Subcommittee that the United States has no defense treaty relationship with any Gulf country." The New York Daily News editorialized on September 29, 1990, "Small wonder Saddam concluded he could overrun Kuwait. Bush and Co. gave him no reason to believe otherwise." (quoted in [1]).

http://www.csun.edu/~vcmth00m/iraqkuwait.html

Also a good summary here:

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/09/03/world/confrontation-in-the-gulf-the-oilfield-lying-below-the-iraq-kuwait-dispute.html

 

[IAmZamzam]

I am well aware that schoolbooks contain a huge number of lies, Jedi Mindset. And it is because of this very reason--it is because I do not believe everything that I read--that I also do not dig Holocaust denial and similar ideas. One of the many marks of conspiracy theorists is that old standby defense mechanism, "Anyone who personally disagrees with me must automatically be brainwashed by the man." But in actual fact my unwillingness to let myself be easily influenced happens to be a large part of what stops me from agreeing with them. Which isn't necessarily saying that they have done the opposite but it works for me.

 

[Jedi_Mindset]

I am well aware that schoolbooks contain a huge number of lies, Jedi Mindset. And it is because of this very reason--it is because I do not believe everything that I read--that I also do not dig Holocaust denial and similar ideas. One of the many marks of conspiracy theorists is that old standby defense mechanism, "Anyone who personally disagrees with me must automatically be brainwashed by the man." But in actual fact my unwillingness to let myself be easily influenced happens to be a large part of what stops me from agreeing with them. Which isn't necessarily saying that they have done the opposite but it works for me.

Where do you see me denying the holocaust? I do say everything is plot and planned to create the state of israel, since the first crusades this idea was already brought up in the minds of the western europeans. They failed and failed, because confronting the ottoman caliphate always ended up in failure, until they sought the idea to create secterian strife within. First was the lands of arabia, where the khawarijtes under command of muhammed ibn saud thought they would fight and revive the rashidun caliphates again (The caliphates under the 4 righteous predecessors) meanwhile due to them being decieved by muhammed ibn saud and the british they destroyed the caliphate. Divide and conquer, this is how they work back then, and they still do it today. And we fall in the same trap again and again.
My view is that the biggest holocaust has happened in both world wars, not to jews but to us - muslims.
The jews have now some reason to play the holocaust tricks to justify their occupation (But if they come they will slaughter us, you international community were against this in the past, USA safe us from the mad mullahs with their atomic bombs blablabla''

 

[IAmZamzam]

Do you have to keep saying "the Jews"? Be careful how you express yourself.

Why does all of history have to revolve around Israel anyway? Can't anything that ever happens in this world ever be unconnected to it? I mean, you've just created a direct through line to Zionism tying together everything from the Crusades to World War II! I just don't see what's supposed to be so all-important about this one country. Sometimes I feel like the only Muslim around who doesn't view the place as the nexus of the space-time continuum.

 

[Independent]

I do say everything is plot and planned to create the state of israel, since the first crusades this idea was already brought up in the minds of the western europeans

Are you familiar with how the First Crusade got started? Because you'll have a hard time explaining how it was in any way deliberate, planned or controlled. And of course, at that time, it was anything but obvious that the west would mkae it through the next 100 years, let alone achieve world domination.

 

[Jedi_Mindset]

Are you familiar with how the First Crusade got started? Because you'll have a hard time explaining how it was in any way deliberate, planned or controlled. And of course, at that time, it was anything but obvious that the west would mkae it through the next 100 years, let alone achieve world domination.

Yes i know how it got started, it was already in the minds of the western people for a while. It was certainly been planned out for a little while, one of their 'reasons' was the coming danger of muslims to constantinople. But there is one thing people ignore, why their sudden obsession for the holy land? And why the jews? The european people themselves were allowed to hold pilgrimage to the holy lands. The muslims didnt stop them, so why the sudden invasions?

The propaganda that christians were allegedly tortured by muslims was made up, because even the christians living in jerusalem sided with the muslims in that time. Also some jews started to sign up for the templar knights brigades and other mercenaries. ofcourse these jews would pose themselves as christians, because they were kind of persecuted at that time by Europe, hence many jews started to move to the muslim world.

Anyway, look at the places the crusaders occupied, it was only jerusalem and the surroundings. Not really Egypt, only palestine and today lebanon plus a bit of turkey. And they didnt plan to move further. Why their obsession for the holy land? Can you tell me that?

o you have to keep saying "the Jews"? Be careful how you express yourself.

Why does all of history have to revolve around Israel anyway? Can't anything that ever happens in this world ever be unconnected to it? I mean, you've just created a direct through line to Zionism tying together everything from the Crusades to World War II! I just don't see what's supposed to be so all-important about this one country. Sometimes I feel like the only Muslim around who doesn't view the place as the nexus of the space-time continuum.

Maybe because you arent willing to see or is ignorant in matters of history? The occupation and sending jews back to the holy land was already in the minds of the western people back then. Their attempts to destroy us was not because of their own occupations, but to guarantee that we would not pose a threat to the jews who came to palestine. This idea was not brought up in the 20th century, it was from far earlier.

 

[IAmZamzam]

Or maybe, just maybe, it's because I understand that sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

 

[Independent]

Yes i know how it got started, it was already in the minds of the western people for a while

No it most certainly wasn't. No one forsaw the mass popular response. Show me any serious evidence for this idea prior to Alexios 1's request for assistance and Pope Urban's call to arms. It came out of the clear blue sky.

And who could plan this? The west was fragmented and deep in its own problems.

But there is one thing people ignore, why their sudden obsession for the holy land? And why the jews? The european people themselves were allowed to hold pilgrimage to the holy lands. The muslims didnt stop them, so why the sudden invasions?

Emotionally, of course they wanted to return Jerusalem to Christian hands - just as Saladin sought to re-conquer it.

Also some jews started to sign up for the templar knights brigades and other mercenaries.

Are you forgetting that the Crusade was also the first pogrom against the Jews? Or is this another 'holocaust' you think is faked?

Anyway, look at the places the crusaders occupied, it was only jerusalem and the surroundings. Not really Egypt, only palestine and today lebanon plus a bit of turkey. And they didnt plan to move further. Why their obsession for the holy land? Can you tell me that?

Incorrect. The 4th, 5th, 7th and 8th crusades all had Egypt as the target. They conquered as much as they were able.

Their attempts to destroy us was not because of their own occupations, but to guarantee that we would not pose a threat to the jews who came to palestine.

No sign of this happening in the Crusades.