Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence?

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Dear Ms. العنود, if that is your real name, you change it so often,

This is a board where moderators have allowed people to wish death upon all atheists and call for the hunting down and killing of homosexuals with birds of prey. I hardly think calling the Quran well written or saying non-muslims don't accept the claims of Islam in the comparative religion section and a thread entitled "Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence" is going to cause much hardship here.
 
The argument about the beginning of the universe is based on ignorance. We have no idea how the universe came about.

We don't know if there was "nothing" before the universe began, we don't know if nothing is possible, we don't know if "something can come from nothing". As we have never experienced or experimented on "nothing", we don't know if it is even possible or what its characteristics are.

Based on this state of affairs, theists use a logical structure for the existence of God on trying to avoid a logical impossibility

Summary:

1. can't have an infinite regression,
2. so there must be a starting point,
3. this starting point can not be based on the laws of nature, because "something can't come from nothing",
Conclusion: There must be an uncreated creator specifically named allah who doesn't want women to show their hair in public and people to pay interest.

Is this basically the argument?

Thanks.
 
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Pygoscelis said:
Dear Ms. العنود, if that is your real name, you change it so often,

This is a board where moderators have allowed people to wish death upon all atheists and call for the hunting down and killing of homosexuals with birds of prey.
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You need to concentrate - you're all over the place.
Is this about me or about some random shmoo. I have asked for direct quotes regarding my person.
Secondly does wishing death upon you or homosexuals mean anything? People wish all the time, I find actions to be more deleterious than wishes frankly. So hopefully you can see the disparity between your hurt feelings and people bound, gagged and torched alive for being Muslim but this like your topic on wishes or my alleged rudeness is a subject for another day and another thread. When we're discussing Islam, God, the noble book or the prophet I expect nothing but utmost reverence & respect!

Pygoscelis said:
I hardly think calling the Quran well written or saying non-muslims don't accept the claims of Islam in the comparative religion section and a thread entitled "Is There Evidence of Allah's Existence" is going to cause much hardship here.
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& that was the hardly what I commented on, in fact my comment on insolence preceded that if you'd pay attention.
Your cruel god, him and zeus or him and ra, a manuscript that others would argue is worthy, that sort of thing.. you appear smart try to employ that when choosing your words here!

best,
 
Hulk said:
I only brought it up because I noticed you used it a few pages back and then used it again just now



Got me wondering if it was an actual thing that I didn't know about but thanks for clarifying.
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lol! I didn't notice I was doing that. Maybe I have some subconscious desire to open a clothing store. "Infinite Redress" would be a great name for one eh?
 
I feel the need to contribute something to this thread!

reddress_zpscc15f01e-1.jpg
 
Greetings Pygoscelis,

Pygoscelis said:
This is a board where moderators have allowed people to wish death upon all atheists and call for the hunting down and killing of homosexuals with birds of prey.
Click to expand...
In our FAQ, there is a disclaimer which reads:

Please remember that we are not responsible for any messages posted. We do not vouch for or warrant the accuracy, completeness or usefulness of any message, and are not responsible for the contents of any message. The messages express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of this Forum. Any user who feels that a posted message is objectionable is encouraged to contact us immediately by email or private message...
http://www.islamicboard.com/faq.php?faq=islamic_forum_rules#faq_liforum_rules

Whilst we do our best to remove posts that misrepresent the teachings of Islam, we cannot go through every single post. But when posts are reported, in almost all cases, some form of action will be taken. Now if particular posts have slipped through the net, it is completely untrue to say that moderators 'allowed' it or that they somehow reflect the views of the forum. To keep repeating this false notion is unacceptable and reflects a lack of integrity on your part. If I am not mistaken, you are referring to the former posts of one or two individuals out of the thousands that are registered here. If that is really the yardstick you will judge us by, this is no different to what is going on across the world where all Muslims are judged according to the actions of a few, and all the countless good examples ignored for one or two bad apples.

Now, let us please stick to the topic. Any further personal posts will be removed.
 
My point was that such things have been written here and the writers are still here, so it would be a double standard for me to be banned (as suggested by the person I was responding to) for anything I have written in this thread, none of which is anywhere near as offensive, or even meant as offensive at all.

That we non-muslims don't accept Islam's claims, that we see it as no different than other religions, that we see no more evidence for it than for other Gods, that we don't see the Quran as a perfectly written book or one inspired by the divine, is not said to insult. It is simple fact. If people take offence to that then they should not be asking about it in a thread with this thread's title in a comparative religion section of the forum.

I am enjoying the discussion we are having here. Interesting points and questions have been brought up. But to have such meaningful discussion on topics like this one requires those who don't believe to write their views as much as those who do believe.
 
I remember you made a similar statement in the past, which is why I wanted to clarify it, especially because of the chosen wording.

Perhaps I should also clarify that this thread was actually started in a different part of the forum. When non-Muslims began replying to it, I then moved it here.
 
Muhammad said:
Perhaps I should also clarify that this thread was actually started in a different part of the forum. When non-Muslims began replying to it, I then moved it here.
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Didn't know that. I make a point of keeping out of fellowship sections of this board because I see those more as your online mosque, etc. This section and world affairs section I see more as your portal to the rest of society, so I post in those. :)
 
glo said:
I feel the need to contribute something to this thread!

reddress_zpscc15f01e-1.jpg
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How random.

Gator said:
The argument about the beginning of the universe is based on ignorance. We have no idea how the universe came about.

We don't know if there was "nothing" before the universe began, we don't know if nothing is possible, we don't know if "something can come from nothing". As we have never experienced or experimented on "nothing", we don't know if it is even possible or what its characteristics are.

Based on this state of affairs, theists use a logical structure for the existence of God on trying to avoid a logical impossibility

Summary:

1. can't have an infinite regression,
2. so there must be a starting point,
3. this starting point can not be based on the laws of nature, because "something can't come from nothing",
Conclusion: There must be an uncreated creator specifically named allah who doesn't want women to show their hair in public and people to pay interest.

Is this basically the argument?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Well all I'm trying to say is that in this universe there is a starting point and an end. This is because the world is not eternal. It is designed to start and come to an end hence the need for a creator.

However beyond this creation there is no starting point and end. Nothing came before God. It's eternal. So that is why I find it easy to accept that no one created God.

Besides the concept of beginning and end only applies to this universe. Beyond that we have no understanding of how things work. We have limited understanding of this.
 
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gator i didnt sense sincerity in your reply so im wary regarding you


i will never understand how someone can ever think that something can come from nothing. an uncreated creator is the only logical possibility. it is through the revelations that we have chosen to bring faith unto that lead to the rulings you snidely remarked upon which is a long story but not meant for those that cant even accept a creator.



i think ill take leave here, its impossible for a person to open their eyes when the hearts are sealed. the hearts can pnly open when wilfully submitted piously unto Allaah.

Ashhadu allaah ilaaha illallaahu wa ashhadu anna muhammadur rasoolullaah (pbuh)

there is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his Messenger



Peace
 
I want to share the first few ayah that I read tonight, { This is God, your Lord, there is no God but Him, the Creator of all things, so worship Him; He is in charge of everything. No vision can take Him in, but He takes in all vision. He is the All Subtle, the All Aware. Now clear proof has come to you from your Lord: If anyone sees it, that will be to his advantage; if anyone is blind to it, that will be to his loss-[Say] 'I am not your guardian' .} 6:102-104 There will be no way to convince an unbeliever of Allah's existence when they do not see the obvious signs and proofs that believers see. If Allah had mercy on me to show me what I did not see before, then should I not be patient with others who do not as of yet see? If there was hope for me, then there is hope for others to see as well - if Allah so wills for that paradigm shift to occur for an unbeliever.
 
العنود;1584587 said:

I guess the atheists of those days were the ones suffering Parietal Lobe Damage? :D

best,
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I think they actually had dain bramage.

Of course, atheists think believers lack a corpus callosum.

Sorry folks. I just find cerebrum humor to be good stuff.
 
The Quran, with its numerous scientific allusions and accurate historical references with unparalelled beauty is proof of the Divine's existence
 
Hulk said:
The above shows that you are still in a frame of mind where you believe that in order for something to exist, you must be able to perceive/experience it with either one of your five senses
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I don't think that's true. I believe in a lot of things that I can't see (subatomic particles for example). I think physics is a great example, take the Higgs Boson, we (well, someone much smarter than me!) studied the maths of physics and said that there must be this particle in existence according to the theory. If the particle didn't exist, the theory was wrong.

This is why I love science, it says "If we are correct, then we should see X. If we can't find X then we must be wrong, so let's take a look."

Science often gets accused of arrogance but there is no other field more ready to say "We are wrong, we have to think again".
So we looked at the maths, decided that we should try and find this particle to validate or invalidate the theory and now we've glimpsed it. But up until very recently, all belief in its existence was based on an interpretation of the maths, we hadn't "seen" anything.
 
One other quick thing, I also love the fact that scientific achievements are essentially neutral. We don't call a discovery an American/Chinese/French discovery for example. If you read a history of science it's all about achievements from around the globe leading to a furthering of knowledge. It truly is, or can be, a unifying force.
 

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