1 in 3 Reverts...

Scimitar said:
crap reason to become Muslim dont you think?
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It is, it is .... but for some they cannot live a 'fulfilled' life knowing that the person they love 'got away' due to differences in religious beliefs. My sister's ex-hubby converted but has since left islam after the divorce. Yes it was a crap reason. But she inspired someone else to convert (but she never pursued the relationship) and he has remained true to islam. In the end, we can convert for the silliest of reasons, but if our hearts open up to learn and stay, we will remain in faith, in syaa Allaah. Likewise, we my take the shahada with the best of intentions and still drift off the correct path and stray as Allah has said He will guide whom He wills and send astray whom He wills. We just have to keep praying and make dua that we will always be kept on the straight path and that we die in the state of belief. In syaa Allah.

Peace.
 
Icy Maiden said:
If it's the hijab that makes me Muslim I would wear it. If it's fasting in Ramadan that makes me Muslim I would fast. If it's eating halal that makes me Muslim I would eat only halal.
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Rather odd that you should put it this way. Hijab is part of being a Muslim. It's not a question of making you more Muslim (if there's such a thing) if you wear hijab. Hijab is not a bargaining chip that is used to determine how Muslim you are. It's part of Islam. Same with fasting in Ramadan and eating halal. All that is part of Islam.

Now, if you do not do that (plus all the rest of the things which are part of Islam) and you are convinced that doing all that has got nothing to do with you being a Muslim, then I think you should seriously review your understanding of Islam. I am not, by any means, claiming that I know Islam any better than you do, but there are simply some things in Islam which are not negotiable, things like hijab, fasting in Ramadan and eating halal (just to name few).
 
Ali Mujahidin said:
Rather odd that you should put it this way. Hijab is part of being a Muslim. It's not a question of making you more Muslim (if there's such a thing) if you wear hijab. Hijab is not a bargaining chip that is used to determine how Muslim you are. It's part of Islam. Same with fasting in Ramadan and eating halal. All that is part of Islam.
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I do know one thing. When I don't wear the hijab, Muslims look down upon me. If Muslims see me drinking a little bit of wine, they will look down upon me. If I eat bacon for breakfast, again they look down upon me.

So why should I start wearing the hijab, stop drinking wine or bacon? So that these same Muslims will look up to me? Why should I care for the opinions of such Muslims? I don't.

To me Islam is about having a proper understanding of God. It isn't a way of life where you follow a set of rules.

Would you have a higher opinion of a woman just because she wears hijab and eats halal? What use is all that if she goes to the grave of some saint to pray? Do you think Allah really cares if she wears hijab or eats halal if she is associating partners with Him?
 
Icy Maiden said:
To me Islam is about having a proper understanding of God. It isn't a way of life where you follow a set of rules.

Would you have a higher opinion of a woman just because she wears hijab and eats halal? What use is all that if she goes to the grave of some saint to pray? Do you think Allah really cares if she wears hijab or eats halal if she is associating partners with Him?
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Assalamu alaikum. I do not believe this is a correct understanding. Islam is indeed a complete way of life. The Qur'an says over and over about following the "straight path." Taking Shahada is what makes one a Muslim. You accept sincerely in your heart that there is no god but Allah (swt) and that Muhammad (saw) is the Messenger of Allah (swt). It is not necessary to be an Islamic scholar to be able to sincerely take Shahadah. However, one must at least know enough of the basics of who Allah (swt) is and who the Prophet (saw) is to be able to make such an educated decision and take Shahada based on a firm foundation of belief and understanding.

Once someone takes Shahadah and becomes Muslim then it should be in our fitrah (nature) to ask "What do I need to do next?" Islam is the "straight path" toward bringing one's self closer to Allah (swt) and living the kind of life Allah (swt) prefers us to live. While Shahadah is the foundation, it is just the beginning of Islam! It is our duty as Muslims to keep learning about Islam and incorporating Islamic practices and values into our lives. After taking Shahadah for instance, you will want to start learning Salat (prayer) and Sawm (fasting) during Ramadan and incorporating halal (permissible) things in your life as well such as modest dress code (hijab), abstaining from haram (prohibited) foods and drinks, etc.

Does this mean you are the perfect Muslim and will never mess up? No. Does it mean you will never be at a point in your life where you feel like you aren't doing anything correct Islamically? Not necessarily. You may not be praying, fasting, wearing hijab, or doing much of anything you think of that is Islamic. But you may be doing some things right. Maybe you aren't stealing, lying, or cheating. That's a start. The point is that as a Muslim you constantly have the intention to improve. You ask Allah (swt) to forgive you for your shortcomings and to help you along the path and then you do what you can to strive for improvement. Maybe you won't wear hijab yet but you will put down the alcohol this time. Maybe you aren't ready to quit alcohol either but you are willing to stop eating pork. Maybe you can't do that either but you could gossip less, withhold judgment more, be kinder to others, whatever. There is always something a Muslim can do to improve. The point is that Islam is not about mere belief and that's it. We believe, we learn, we ask Allah (swt) for help, we put forth intentions, and then we act with Allah's (swt) help.

That being said, Muslims should not go around putting down other Muslims. Muslims can give advice to other Muslims for what is correct Islamic behavior but we should not be putting each other down. We as Muslims should strive for humility and be willing to accept advice from other Muslims so that we can become better Muslims ourselves and closer to Allah (swt). If a Muslim corrects me on something I am saying or doing wrong then inshaAllah I will thank Allah(swt) for guiding them to show me the correct way. And that goes for this response of mine as well. I am not an expert. Allah (swt) knows best and I stand corrected if something I have said is incorrect. We then turn to our sources for guidance -- the Qur'an and the Hadith.
 
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Hulk said:
There is a difference in doing a wrong action and knowing that it is wrong, and doing a wrong action and saying that it is right. There are muslims who don't fast in ramadan, eat non-halal food, drink alcohol, but they would never say that their actions are permissible, that would be an even deeper problem.

I personally know quite a few converts myself(in fact I know more than 3!) and none have "left Islam", I'm sure the fact that they are on the path of knowledge has something to do with it inshaaAllah.
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Jazakallah khair for this excellent point! This may be the difference between Islam and many other faiths. We don't say we are perfect people. At the same time, we don't settle for less and say that anything goes. Let's say that I am committing a sin and I know what I am doing is wrong. It isn't good. But hopefully I have the intention to stop that sin as soon as possible and that I am asking Allah (swt) for both forgiveness from the sin and help with stopping the sin. I may still be doing the sin but my heart has the right intentions. At that point what happens next is the will of Allah (swt). All I can do is keep believing, striving for improvment, repenting, ans asking for help. And that's it!

The wrong attitude is not only not care about the sin but to then go around telling others that I am sinning and then encouraging them to commit the sin as well by saying that it is ok what I am doing. I should at best keep the sin private as in only between me and Allah (swt) or if not possible and the sin must be disclosed to others (or it becomes exposed somehow) that I own up to what I did, say that what I did was wrong and not permitted in Islam and ask other Muslims and Allah (swt) for help.

But any kind of an "anything goes" attitude is definitely not Islam. For reverts (as I am one), there is a learning curve in Islam. You don't take Shahada and then instantly be able to pray perfectly the next day. You don't suddenly have a whole collection of hijabs and abayas to wear the next day. You don't magically become the perfect person the next day. It all takes time, practice, and striving.

It is possible that many reverts leave Islam soon after reverting because they didn't fully understand what Islam is about when they took Shahada. Islam takes work. It isn't a free handout. Just as much as it is the Ummah's (community's) responsibility to guide the new revert, it is also the revert's responsibility to work at becoming a better Muslim.

Shahada makes one a Muslim. That is all. The next step is to become a better Muslim.

Allah (swt) knows best!
 
Icy Maiden said:
When I don't wear the hijab, Muslims look down upon me. If Muslims see me drinking a little bit of wine, they will look down upon me. If I eat bacon for breakfast, again they look down upon me.
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Just curious. Do you really care about what other people think about you? Or are you more concerned about how you are going to answer on Judgement Day?

Myself, I pray. Five times a day. With the jemaah. So that I can look good to other people? No, not at all. Their opinion is irrelevant to my practice of Islam. I do it because it's encouraged in Islam to pray with the jemaah. I do it because it is compulsory to pray in Islam. I pray 5 times a day because that's the number of times mandated in Islam. Nothing at all to do with what other people think.

One other thing. Islam is not just a religion like any other religion. Islam is not just about a set of rituals or a way of worship. Islam is a way of life. Yes, it is a way of life. You practice Islam with every breath you take. You practice Islam with every beat of your heart. You practice Islam when you wake up. You practice Islam when you go to the toilet. You practice Islam when you smile. You practice Islam every single living second of your life.

If you want to.
 
Ali Mujahidin said:
Just curious. Do you really care about what other people think about you?
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No.

Ali Mujahidin said:
Or are you more concerned about how you are going to answer on Judgement Day?
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Yes. On Judgment Day Allah will ask me who is my Lord... and I will reply, "Allah, the One and Only". The angels will test the truth of those words and will find that I do believe. Just by virtue of that, Allah will forgive me for all my sins.

It is a teaching of Islam, isn't it, that Allah can pardon all sins except the associating of partners with Him. If I am wrong, do correct me. Thanks.
 
Yusifislam used to come and do support work with reverts at regents park mosque in London - every week i believe,
Dunno if he still does coz I don't live there any more, I did however see crowds of reverts come and join him and sit at talks and discussions.
There's also quite a nice library there for those who want to do research and spend time in an Islamic educational atmosphere, nice and quiet, feels amazing and doesn't get boring easily as all the reading tables are aligned with the windows overlooking the massive courtyard.

For those living in london, I don't think it would be too difficult to find yusuf as he also runs an Islamic school, from what I know of him, he's very friendly and eager to go the extra mile to help new and old brothers and sisters in need of support, there must be other celebrity types like him who are an inspiration to others and give a feeling of confidence,
you could try finding them online and contacting them, then take revert friends to visit them, people are almost always inspired by people they look up to. (which is probably why some get depressed and fall apart when their role models and peers shun them for accepting Islam).
 
Icy Maiden said:
Yes. On Judgment Day Allah will ask me who is my Lord... and I will reply, "Allah, the One and Only". The angels will test the truth of those words and will find that I do believe. Just by virtue of that, Allah will forgive me for all my sins.
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From what I have learned, it's actually two angels who will ask that question when you are in the grave. Please check this out for confirmation:
http://www.correctislamicfaith.com/whathappenswhenwedie.htm

Now back to the issue of your answer.


I am sure you truly and sincerely believe that Allah is one and only one worthy of worship. What exactly does this belief entail? It means that you will obey none other than Allah. Now if Allah commands that you perform solat and you do, then you have obeyed Allah. If you don't, can you sincerely say that you have obeyed Allah? If you don't perform solat (just as an example, mind you) who are you obeying? Are you obeying Allah or are you obeying your own nafs? Are you putting your nafs above Allah? In not performing solat, are you not saying that your nafs is more important than Allah? When you do not perform solat, how can you claim that you truly and sincerely believe that Allah and only Allah is worthy of worship? (Note that I am just using this as an example and I am not saying, in any way, that you are not performing solat.)

Allah has commanded that a woman shall wear the hijab. There is no dispute about that. So when a woman refuses to wear the hijab, how can she claim to believe that Allah is the one and only worthy of worship? Where is the imaan of a woman who refuses to obey Allah? And how can a woman claim to be a Muslim if she does not have imaan?

Note that imaan is not a constant state of being. Imaan is not something that you achieve just by proclaiming the shahadah. Or, in other words, just by proclaiming the shahadah, you cannot claim that you have imaan. Please refer to the following for clarification:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iman_(concept)
http://www.missionislam.com/knowledge/sixpillarsiman.htm
http://www.islamhelpline.com/node/6935

Please understand that I am not a Muslim scholar. I am just sharing what little I know about Islam (and what I know is really very, very little indeed).

WalLahu aklam.
 
Aselam aleykum

A couple of years ago, I came across this web-forum for people who had left Islam (and quite a few on that forum where people who had first reverted to Islam, and then afterwards left it). I stuck around for a while, avoiding debate, and just listening to their stories, tryig to understand their point of view. In my opinion, the most common factor in all of their stories I heard there (both from people who reverted to Islam, or who were born in an islamic family) was that they were all guided by emotion and not rational arguments or doubts. They had all 'wanted' to leave Islam. Be it because they were disapointed by the behavior of other muslims around them; or disgusted by some of the opnions from certain hard-liner scholars, or just because they were tested by allah and no longer wanted to follow the rules due to the hardship they endured.

Now to get to my point, I understand why you would want to look for the cause of reverts leaving Islam; and try to remedy his situation. But remember that if Allah subhana wa ta'ala wills somebody to go astray that the whole of mankind combined cannot guide him back to the right path. Of course thta being said, the causes I mentioned (bad behaviour among muslims, and extremist scholars) are things that need to be worked on eitherway...
 
Assalamu alaikum! It's mainly because when a person reverts, they are coming in completely isolated, unknowing and exposed. They are looking for some type of help or guidance. It's difficult to be in this position as a revert and having to deal with current Muslims who have their baggage and hangups as well. And Muslims in general have some serious issues, not all, but it's enough to leave a bad taste in any new reverts mouth. As a revert, you have to ignore soo many things and seek Allah Subhanah wa ta'ala for guidance.

I, personally, have been a revert for four years, and I have dealt with some very ugly things from other supposed believers, as well as trying to become a better person and dealing with my own family who are Christian and their drama.

i suggest to any new revert is to learn the 5 obligatory prayers ASAP in your language (this will be your peace). Read the Quran. Don't worry about the language barriers and cultural stuff with the other Muslims because Islam is not only Arabic or African, it is international. Allah cannot be put into a box. Do what feels best for you and you will grow and learn!
 

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