from a few days ago in Egypt-- enjoy

[sister herb]

Salam alaykum

I have critical opinions about every parties, whose take part to political life, in general. And yes, I pray end of violence and put my hope to people whose want and can solve they problems by non-violentic ways, like by negotiation. That´s why I pray that Allah would put some sense to the minds of the leaders (and that those leaders could keep they supporters avoiding more violence against those whose support something else leader/party).

To me yes it is same what party will rules Egypt - if it is what Egyptians want, not what some people outside want - muslims or non-muslims. Without will of ordinary Egyptians, the situation goes only to one direction - to chaos where the first victims are those like usually in kind of situation: innocent civilians whose haven´t nothing do with kind of political mess.

:heated:

 

[sister herb]

So I think that as Muslims we must support the Muslim Brotherhood and any other Islamic groups in Egypt that are working towards these aims.

Salam alaykum

I think that we us muslims (or we as humans in general) should at the first hand support peace. After that we are free to choose groups we support.

 

[glo]

Futhermore, Muslims are not required to listen to "all points of view."

You don't have to read everything that's written. Do you?
You can also put people on ignore (although I've forgotten how to do that)

And you can always reports posts, if you feel they go against forum rules.

Salaam

 

[faithandpeace]

Glo that is true. I'm not going to name names but my concerns aren't really about your posts. To my knowledge, you've always been nice, respectful, and supportive.

 

[faithandpeace]

I do take offense to others here who reduce the real-life suffering and death of others to "political science." When people at my masjid tell me of relatives who have died in Syria, when someone on this forum talks about being attacked in Lebanon in real-time and you never hear from them again, it hits much closer to home.

It isn't about theories anymore. Further, talking over and over about how Egypt, Syria, etc. needs "peace" is a distraction from the real issue. Justice is what is needed. When there is oppression, there is no peace. Violence is justified and even encouraged in certain circumstances such as in self-defense or defense of others. It would be ridiculous if an intruder entered my home and tried to take my things and tried to hurt me and when I fight back the neighbors tell us both to "make peace." That is ridiculous. Peace happens when oppression is stopped and wrongdoers are punished.

 

[glo]

I appreciate your kind comment, faithandpeace. Thank you.

Some people get my goat too. I guess it's the nature of Internet forums that people can show their true colours and get away with things, they might never get away with in real life.

Honestly, use the report button.
Or stay clear of certain topics. I know that there are some threads I never even look at - because the title alone tells me that I won't like what I will see ...

 

[sister herb]

Salam alaykum

Sorry I didn´t mention justice because to me "making peace"- solution, justice between different kind of people and groups in the society is a natural and integral part of the peace.

And, wanting peace isn´t ridiculous choice of my mind but... everyone has of course right to they own opinions here.

 

[Abz2000]

I think that we us muslims (or we as humans in general) should at the first hand support peace. After that we are free to choose groups we support.

unfortunately you will see no peace without a struggle, whatdo you think, they're going to hand you the keys to parliament?

and i don't know what you mean by this or how you hope to achieve it:

We have suffered too much for too long. We will not accept apartheid masked as peace. We will settle for no less than our freedom.

 

[Independent]

I object to the way in which non-Muslims are relatively free on an Islamic discussion board to meddle in our political and economic affairs.

Strangely enough I've always thought those are the sections it would be seen as ok to talk in. Oh well.

Personally I think a forum like this is a great place for people to exchange different views and understand more about each other in a safe environment. I've always believed that was part of the inspiration behind the site as it is today. In fact, participation in the mixed threads tend to be among the highest.

I joined this site after watching a series of interviews with Muslim spokespeople on tv. It became apparent not just that they had different views from me, but that there seemed to be some sort of organised or consistent alternative narrative which I didn't know about (and neither did the interviewers).

Since then, as a member, I have learned that there is indeed a drastically alternative view of world events, history and morality that is far more alien to my experience than i ever expected. I ask questions to challenge statements to see what is behind them, because that is the way to learn. However, I do not agree that making a political observation (for example, suggesting that the US did not engineer the military coup in Egypt) is tantamount to being 'Islamophobic' in any way, shape or form.

Ironically, while the western news is dominated by the actions of people who are termed 'extremists', it's the so-called 'moderate' Muslims who dominate media appearances in the UK and Ireland, when they are asked onto panel programmes to discuss events. I joined expecting to see that this 'moderate' view was the real majority in the Muslim world. Instead, I find that many members regard these 'moderates' to be scarcely Muslim at all. I don't know who is the real majority but it seems that there is the most enormous battle for ownership going on within Islam.

I have learned a massive amount about all kinds of subjects here for which i am very grateful. I have even learned that Sharia Law has its plus side (although not in the hands of the Taliban). However, it needs to be for Muslims, no one else.

I have also now read the Quran and many other Muslim-related books. But although stranger things have happened, it's fair to say that I am not likely to convert.

 

[Signor]

But although stranger things have happened, it's fair to say that I am not likely to convert.

Would you like tell us what are those "strange" things?Maybe we can help if its is Allah's will

 

[Independent]

Would you like tell us what are those "strange" things?Maybe we can help if its is Allah's will

I meant simply that sometimes people have converted in very unexpected ways, such as the controversial Dutch film-maker (Van Doorn). I think this is not likely in my case as I am not drawn, but thank you for your offer of help.

 

[Signor]

I meant simply that sometimes people have converted in very unexpected ways, such as the controversial Dutch film-maker (Van Doorn). I think this is not likely in my case as I am not drawn, but thank you for your offer of help.

You are welcome anytime.However,I need to tell you something which you find "Unexpected".

"Surely you cannot guide whom you love, but Allah guides whom He pleases, and He knows best the followers of the right way." [28:56]

Mentioned in Al Ar'af,verse 149

Say, "With Allah is the far-reaching argument. If He had willed, He would have guided you all."

Peace

 

[glo]

I do take offense to others here who reduce the real-life suffering and death of others to "political science." When people at my masjid tell me of relatives who have died in Syria, when someone on this forum talks about being attacked in Lebanon in real-time and you never hear from them again, it hits much closer to home.
It isn't about theories anymore.

I understand what you are saying.

When people suffer and die, especially people we relate to ourselves or know personally, then our only response can be one of deep emotion - anger, hurt, pain, sadness, despair ...

And it can seem heartless when outsiders analyse the situation and give their opinion. And perhaps those people should hear what you are saying and be sensitive in their response.
Or perhaps there should be a period when NOTHING is said and people are just left to grieve.

However, I also think you are perhaps a bit unfair on people like Warrior. Exactly because he is an outsider and has an understanding of political situations, it may actually make him a good person to look at the situation and give his thoughts.

What might just look like interference and irritation at the moment, may actually be words of wisdom. It just might not be the right time for people who are affected by all this to hear.


My thoughts and prayers are with your friends in your masjid and with their families back in Syria.

 

[sister herb]

unfortunately you will see no peace without a struggle, whatdo you think, they're going to hand you the keys to parliament?

and i don't know what you mean by this or how you hope to achieve it:

Salam alaykum

Thanks about reminding about struggle - but struggle has to be some clear goal and to me it is end the conflict and reach the peace (plus justice of course).

By my signature text I refer to a situation in the Palestine; for me it is quite personal matter as I have lost friends and some family members during that conflict - but still I haven´t lost my hope for peace (and justice of course) with Palestine matter too.

"Make peace not war."

 

[Jedi_Mindset]

I do take offense to others here who reduce the real-life suffering and death of others to "political science." When people at my masjid tell me of relatives who have died in Syria, when someone on this forum talks about being attacked in Lebanon in real-time and you never hear from them again, it hits much closer to home.

I remember the topic as well, never heard from the brother again indeed, it caught me a bit off guarrd that day but later on i accepted that it is the state of the ummah today.

 

[جوري]

As-salamu 3laikum,I only heard some people say that aljazeera had so much integrity when they started out, that when they got bought over they lost some of it. They do also have some unislamic elements in their broadcasting like music etc. However, if they continue to broadcast the truth and are better than alarabiya then I will continue to watch their broadcasts in sha Allah.

You heard what they wanted in fact Al Jazeera started around the America invasion if Iraq to showcase how great and heroic the Americans are to an Arabic audience and that's why they gained popularity until a few reporters died not just from Aljazeera but even Spanish reporters whose families tried to sue the US to no avail and their govt. isn't doing much to help and the US turned in Aljazeera shortly after in fact every regime has turned on them because of their live recordings and expose especially in Arabic - al3rabya or as we call it al3brya is owned by that turd waleed IBN talal who just fired Dr. Suwaidan he also owns fox along with Murdoch and they are the vilest against Muslims with no credibility whatsoever I mean their lies are hilarious the other day they said the brotherhood they don't even want to admit that internationally people are supporting mursi without anything to do with the brotherhood are placing that yellow avatar with four sign to promote multiple wives lol I mean need I say more?

 

[WarriorforMarie]

I do take offense to others here who reduce the real-life suffering and death of others to "political science." When people at my masjid tell me of relatives who have died in Syria, when someone on this forum talks about being attacked in Lebanon in real-time and you never hear from them again, it hits much closer to home.

It isn't about theories anymore. Further, talking over and over about how Egypt, Syria, etc. needs "peace" is a distraction from the real issue. Justice is what is needed. When there is oppression, there is no peace. Violence is justified and even encouraged in certain circumstances such as in self-defense or defense of others. It would be ridiculous if an intruder entered my home and tried to take my things and tried to hurt me and when I fight back the neighbors tell us both to "make peace." That is ridiculous. Peace happens when oppression is stopped and wrongdoers are punished.

I think you are having misunderstandings. When I first posted in this thread it was in response to your mentioning that Muslims who do not accept Islam as a political system might be apostates. What I was trying to discuss was what the consequences of this be if broad structural trends, both historic and economic, might lead to a secularization of the political space in the Muslim World and wanted to know what the implications of that mean. I was met with an assertion that any Muslim who practices secular or progressive politics is an apostate. I did not dispute this, merely inquire about its details. The responses I received often focused on Egypt and any mention I made of it was only in reference to these comments. I also have yet to see any providing example of how I was "preaching" or trying to force people to accept Western political systems. My writings were oriented towards attempting to gain information about the understanding that a Muslim's politics and beliefe in God are one in the same. So far no one has been able to provide a satisfactorye explanation of the details. Of course, if someone does not have that understanding there is nothing wrong with that, and a simple statement that the particular details are unknown would have been sufficient.

I also take issue that anything is "reduced" by applying political science to it. Political scientist study political phenomena. The systematic study of politics allows one to describe, explain and in certain matters make some limited predictions on issues. Anyone who wishes to understand how the political world needs to conduct formal study, otherwise self taught ideas will leave them unable to comprehend the things that are happening in the world.

I will however cease posting in this forum. In the numerous diatribes that have been posted, there were two at least partially valid points made.
-One is that this is a forum about the events of Egypt. Comments about political Islam risk driving it off topic.
-There are people on this thread with loved ones in danger.

Perhaps if there had been an open and honest answering of my questions in the first place (rather than the issuing of unfound accusations that I was trying to force Western political systems on people) the excess comments could have been avoided. I will instead create a separate thread about Political Islam, probably about a week from now as my school semester is starting and I have to prepare my notes this week.

 

[sister herb]

When I first posted in this thread it was in response to your mentioning that Muslims who do not accept Islam as a political system might be apostates. ... I was met with an assertion that any Muslim who practices secular or progressive politics is an apostate.

Discussions like this kind of comments are (unfortunately) quite common. Claiming that is not good or islamic behavior at all (as only Allah knows kind of things) but some times some people see some conflicts so personal matters that they might accuse others... When talking about some current conflicts, some may see things just only like black and white- situation.

If someone has made kind of claiming in this thread in purpose and really meant it... may Allah forgives him.

 

[WarriorforMarie]

Discussions like this kind of comments are (unfortunately) quite common. Claiming that is not good or islamic behavior at all (as only Allah knows kind of things) but some times some people see some conflicts so personal matters that they might accuse others... When talking about some current conflicts, some may see things just only like black and white- situation.

If someone has made kind of claiming in this thread in purpose and really meant it... may Allah forgives him.

You are right to mention that importance of personal matters. As had been revealed some in this threads have ones they care for who are in danger. It is understandable that they would have problems if they saw someone they thought was making light of that situation. I apologize to anyone if they thought I was making light of the peril of those they care about.

 

[Abz2000]

@ confused warriorMarie

I was met with an assertion that any Muslim who practices secular or progressive politics is an apostate. I did not dispute this, merely inquire about its details. The responses I received often focused on Egypt and any mention I made of it was only in reference to these comments. I also have yet to see any providing example of how I was "preaching" or trying to force people to accept Western political systems. My writings were oriented towards attempting to gain information about the understanding that a Muslim's politics and beliefe in God are one in the same. So far no one has been able to provide a satisfactorye explanation of the details.

The answer to your simple question is in the Quran if u actually cared to read it:إِنّا أَنزَلنَا التَّورىٰةَ فيها هُدًى وَنورٌ ۚ يَحكُمُ بِهَا النَّبِيّونَ الَّذينَ أَسلَموا لِلَّذينَ هادوا وَالرَّبّٰنِيّونَ وَالأَحبارُ بِمَا استُحفِظوا مِن كِتٰبِ اللَّهِ وَكانوا عَلَيهِ شُهَداءَ ۚ فَلا تَخشَوُا النّاسَ وَاخشَونِ وَلا تَشتَروا بِـٔايٰتى ثَمَنًا قَليلًا ۚ وَمَن لَم يَحكُم بِما أَنزَلَ اللَّهُ فَأُولٰئِكَ هُمُ الكٰفِرونَIt was We who revealed the law (to Moses): therein was guidance and light. By its standard have been judged the Jews, by the prophets who bowed (as in Islam) to Allah\'s will, by the rabbis and the doctors of law: for to them was entrusted the protection of Allah\'s book, and they were witnesses thereto: therefore fear not men, but fear me, and sell not my signs for a miserable price. If any do fail to judge/legislate by what Allah hath revealed, they are Disbelievers.Quran 5:44Sent using alQuran. http://iphone.almubin.com/alQuran