Burn in hell...?

[جوري]

Re: Unbelievers?

No one burns in Hell eternally

Yeah, they do:

خَالِدِينَ فِيهَا ۖ لَا يُخَفَّفُ عَنْهُمُ الْعَذَابُ وَلَا هُمْ يُنْظَرُونَ [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica]{162}
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 2:162] They ever dwell therein. The doom will not be lightened for them, neither will they be reprieved.

Arabic is my native tongue and that is what 'khaledeen feeha' means
'eternally.
'Khulood'-= Immortality
khalid= immortal
'khaldeen feeha' therein they dwell eternally.

Let's not makeup a new deen!
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[جوري]

to add about Ahqaba directly from baheth:
والحُقْبُ والحُقْبُ: ثمانون سَنةً، وقيل أَكثرُ من ذلك؛ وجمع الحُقْبِ حِقابٌ، مثل قُفٍّ وقِفافٍ، وحكى الأَزهري في الجمع أَحْقَاباً.
والحُقُبُ الدَّهرُ، والأَحْقابُ: الدُّهُور؛ وقيل: الحُقُبُ السَّنةُ، عن ثعلب.
ومنهم من خَصَّصَ به لغة قيس خاصَّة.
وقوله تعالى: أَو أَمْضِيَ حُقُباً؛ قيل: معناه سنةً؛ وقيل: معناه سنين، وبسِنينَ فسره ثعلب. قال الأَزهري: وجاء في التفسير: أَنه ثمانون سنة، فالحُقُب على تفسير ثعلب، يكون أَقَلَّ من ثمانين سنة، لأَنّ موسى، عليه السلام، لم يَنْوِ أَن يَسِيرَ ثَمانين سَنةً، ولا أَكثر، وذلك أَنّ بَقِيَّةَ عُمُرِه في ذلك الوَقْت لا تَحْتَمِلُ ذلك؛ والجمع من كل ذلك أَحْقابٌ وأَحْقُبٌ؛ قال ابن هَرْمةَ: وقد وَرِثَ العَبّاسُ، قَبْلَ مُحمدٍ، * نَبِيَّيْنِ حَلاَّ بَطْنَ مَكَّةَ أَحْقُبا وقال الفرَّاءُ في قوله تعالى: لابِثينَ فيها أَحْقاباً؛ قال: الحُقْبُ ثمانُون سنةً، والسَّنةُ ثَلثُمائة وستون يوماً، اليومُ منها أَلفُ سنة من عَدد الدنيا، قال: وليس هذا مـما يدل على غاية، كما يَظُنّ بعضُ الناس، وإِنما يدُل على الغايةِ التوْقِيتُ، خمسةُ أَحْقاب أَو عشرة، والمعنى أَنهم يَلْبَثُون فيها أَحْقاباً، كُلَّما مضَى حُقْب تَبِعه حُقْب آخَر؛ وقال الزجاج: المعنى أَنهم يَلْبَثُون فيها أَحْقاباً، لا يذُوقُون في الأَحْقابِ بَرْداً ولا شَراباً، وهم خالدون في النار أَبداً، كما قال اللّه، عز وجل؛ وفي حديث قُسّ: وأَعْبَدُ مَن تَعَبَّدَ في الحِقَبْ هو جمع حِقْبةٍ، بالكسر، وهي السنةُ، والحُقْبُ، بالضم؛ ثَمانُون سَنةً، وقيل أَكثر، وجمعه حِقابٌ.
http://www.baheth.info/all.jsp?term=أَحْقَابً

literally ages upon ages, whenever an era or epoch ends another one begins!

 

[Ahmad H]

Re: Unbelievers?

Let's not makeup a new deen!

Careful there. I understand you have a differing viewpoint, but let's not start accusing me of breaking off from Islam because I hold a different viewpoint on this.

But anyways, Allah is Just. He is the Best Judge, so whatever He decides, those who are judged will know that it is the truth and that they cannot hide from it. Everyone will have to accept their judgment by Him. We do not yet know how we will be judged. Just remember, those who live have not lived their life at full yet. And those who lived, no one knows the secret intentions of their hearts. And no one knows the secret deeds of everyone, everyone has something they hide which only Allah knows. Just remember that before you start wondering how Allah judges. A Judge must know all the facts before they judge, and Allah is All-Knowing!

Therefore, no one can be wronged by Allah. To think you would is sacrilege and it is an affront to Allah.

 

[جوري]

Re: Unbelievers?

I understand you have a differing viewpoint,

There's no 'differing views' here!
There's making up stuff which is a greatest sacrilege of all and I have already elaborated on ahqab or per Quran Ahqaba in the above post or in the Noble Quran and its tafsir and from Baheth:

http://www.islamicboard.com/clarifications-about-islam/134319475-burn-hell-3.html#post1600957


You should take your own advise in this case and familiarize yourself with Arabic and usool el fiqh!

 

[Ahmad H]

literally ages upon ages, whenever an era or epoch ends another one begins!

Yes, that I understand, I completely accept that it is ages upon ages. I just wonder, if Allah mentioned ages, as opposed to simply saying "abada" or "khalideena", then this must be explaining the whole matter differently. Anyways, let the questioner get a chance to jump in and try to understand the concept of justice and punishment. I'm going to just slither away now and let everyone else do the talking...

:X

 

[Ahmad H]

Re: Unbelievers?

You should take your own advise in this case and familiarize yourself with Arabic and usool el fiqh!

Believe me I'm trying. In the meantime, could you translate your Arabic posts? Someone like me who doesn't know Arabic would like to know the translation of the above. I only know bits and parts, so it is frustrating to go to websites like www.altafsir.com and not know what the vast array of Tafsirs are actually saying. That is one reason why I am not completely convinced as per the Ahqab argument.

 

[جوري]

Yes, that I understand, I completely accept that it is ages upon ages. I just wonder, if Allah mentioned ages, as opposed to simply saying "abada" or "khalideena", then this must be explaining the whole matter differently. Anyways, let the questioner get a chance to jump in and try to understand the concept of justice and punishment. I'm going to just slither away now and let everyone else do the talking...

:X

That's one of the beautiful secrets of the Quran and one of its linguistic miracles.
And there are countless of those. As an example the word for sea and river in Arabic is known ba7r, nahr, when :Allah::swt: is addressing the mother of Moses and in the Quran he inspires unto her to ' [SIZE=+2]فَاقْذِفِيهِ فِي الْيَمِّ' faiqthifeehi fee alyammi:

[SIZE=+2]أَنِ اقْذِفِيهِ فِي التَّابُوتِ فَاقْذِفِيهِ فِي الْيَمِّ فَلْيُلْقِهِ الْيَمُّ بِالسَّاحِلِ يَأْخُذْهُ عَدُوٌّ لِّي وَعَدُوٌّ لَّهُ وَأَلْقَيْتُ عَلَيْكَ مَحَبَّةً مِّنِّي وَلِتُصْنَعَ عَلَى عَيْنِي
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Ani iqthifeehi fee alttabooti faiqthifeehi fee alyammi falyulqihi alyammu bialssahili yakhuthhu AAaduwwun lee waAAaduwwun lahu waalqaytu AAalayka mahabbatan minnee walitusnaAAa AAala AAaynee​

​

20:39 "'Throw (the child) into the chest, and throw (the chest) into the river: the river will cast him up on the bank, and he will be taken up by one who is an enemy to Me and an enemy to him': But I cast (the garment of) love over thee from Me: and (this) in order that thou mayest be reared under Mine eye.
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in this case 'yamm' isn't an Arabic word but a Hebrew one, later on we see the conventional usage of nahr and bahr and an example that combines both below and in one particular verse:

Ibrahim (Abraham) [/SIZE]

اللّهُ الَّذِي خَلَقَ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالأَرْضَ وَأَنزَلَ مِنَ السَّمَاء مَاء فَأَخْرَجَ بِهِ مِنَ الثَّمَرَاتِ رِزْقًا لَّكُمْ وَسَخَّرَ لَكُمُ الْفُلْكَ لِتَجْرِيَ فِي الْبَحْرِ بِأَمْرِهِ وَسَخَّرَ لَكُمُ الأَنْهَارَ (14:32)
Basit - Hussari - Minshawi

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Allahu allathee khalaqa alssamawati waalarda waanzala mina alssamai maan faakhraja bihi mina alththamarati rizqan lakum wasakhkhara lakumu alfulka litajriya fee albahri biamrihi wasakhkhara lakumu alanhara
Topics discussed in this Verse:
[Creation] [Food] [Fruit] [Rain sent down by Allah] [Rivers] [Ships and sailing]
14:32 (Asad) [And remember that] it is God who has created the heavens and the earth, and who sends down water from the sky and thereby brings forth [all manner] of fruits for your sustenance; and who has made ships subservient to. you, so that they may sail through the sea at His behest; and has made the rivers subservient [to His laws, so that they be of use] to you; -

It is one of the divine linguistic miracles of the Quran and that an unlettered desert man can come up with this divine writ for those who reason!

 

[greenhill]

Re: Unbelievers?

Originally Posted by Ahmad H
No one burns in Hell eternally
Yeah, they do:

From a human point of view, I would like very much to concur with Ahmad H's point of view. That being the case, Pharaoh too will taste heaven (or at least get out of the burning fires of hell) eventually. But somehow, I doubt it very much.

But then again, it matters not what I believe, the decision is in Allah's hands and we should endeavour to avoid going through hellfire as much as we can. From what I can understand, it is 'syirk' that is most likely the type of act that may make us permanently reside in hell.

Peace :shade:

 

[جوري]

Re: Unbelievers?

I would like very much to concur with Ahmad H's point of view

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Al-Ma'idah [5:101]

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ لاَ تَسْأَلُواْ عَنْ أَشْيَاء إِن تُبْدَ لَكُمْ تَسُؤْكُمْ وَإِن تَسْأَلُواْ عَنْهَا حِينَ يُنَزَّلُ الْقُرْآنُ تُبْدَ لَكُمْ عَفَا اللّهُ عَنْهَا وَاللّهُ غَفُورٌ حَلِيمٌ http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/arabicscript/Ayat/5/5_101.gif

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Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo la tasaloo AAan ashyaa in tubda lakum tasukum wain tasaloo AAanha heena yunazzalu alquranu tubda lakum AAafa Allahu AAanha waAllahu ghafoorun haleemun​

5:101 O ye who believe! Ask not questions about things which, if made plain to you, may cause you trouble. But if ye ask about things when the Qur'an is being revealed, they will be made plain to you, Allah will forgive those: for Allah is Oft- forgiving, Most Forbearing.


Once you're familiar with the Quran like a good friend, you might find that some of the things you propose or question or put a spin on are most grievous in the sight of :Allah: indeed​

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[greenhill]

Re: Unbelievers?

Salaam

ou might find that some of the things you propose or question or put a spin on are most grievous in the sight of indeed

Noted.

....., I would like very much to concur with Ahmad H's point of view. ...... But somehow, I doubt it very much.
..... From what I can understand, it is 'syirk' that is most likely the type of act that may make us permanently reside in hell.

Please don't take excerpts of what I say without looking at the rest of the sentence.. What I would like and what is are totally different things. I believe for syirk and unbelievers their place is wherever Allah decides to place them despite what I would like.

Plus, I have not put any spin nor proposing anything. Merely commenting on what is said.

Peace :shade:

 

[Nur Student]

Yes, that I understand, I completely accept that it is ages upon ages. I just wonder, if Allah mentioned ages, as opposed to simply saying "abada" or "khalideena", then this must be explaining the whole matter differently.

Besides what sister Jawri explained about the meaning of "khalideena", here is an ayah with the word "abada".

(Surat Al-Jinn 72:23)

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Sahih International
But [I have for you] only notification from Allah , and His messages." And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger - then indeed, for him is the fire of Hell; they will abide therein forever.

 

[CrnaRuža]

Hi this post has been here since loong time ago, but if in any case you see this please contact me. I have answers that will solve your problem.

 

[Ümit]

Hi this post has been here since loong time ago, but if in any case you see this please contact me. I have answers that will solve your problem.

post what you have please. we can continue from there.