Dhul Qarnayn: Quranic Error?
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According to explanations given by investigative scholars, and as indicated by the title Dhu’l-Qarnayn, names beginning with the suffix Dhu, like Dhu’l-Yazan, were used by the kings of Yemen, so this Dhu’l-Qarnayn was not Alexander the Great. He was one of the kings of Yemen (1) who lived at the time of Abraham (UWP) (2) and received instruction from Khidr. (3) Alexander the Greek lived approximately three hundred years before Christ, and was taught by Aristotle. (4)
Human history goes back in regular fashion approximately three thousand years. This deficient and short view of history is not accurate concerning pre-Abrahamic times. It continues back either as superstition, or as denial, or in very abbreviated form. The reason the Dhu’l-Qarnayn of Yemen was since early times in Qur’anic commentaries known as Alexander, (5) was either because it was one of his names and he was Alexander the Great or the Alexander of Ancient Times, or else the following:
The particular events mentioned in Qur’anic verses are the tips of universal events. Thus, through his prophetic guidance, Alexander the Great, who was Dhu’l-Qarnayn, built a barrier between some peoples, oppressors and oppressed, and built the famous Great Wall of China to prevent the raids of those cruel enemies. Similarly, many powerful kings and world conquerors like Alexander the Greek followed in the path of Dhu’l-Qarnayn materially, while the prophets and spiritual poles, who are the kings of man’s spiritual world, followed him in spiritual matters and guidance; they built barriers between mountains, one of the most effective means of saving the oppressed from oppressors, and later constructed strongholds on mountain peaks. (There are numerous artificial barriers on the face of the earth that with the passing of time have taken on the appearance of mountains or have become unrecognizable.) They founded these themselves through their material power, or through their guidance and planning. Then they built walls surrounding towns and citadels inside the towns, and finally they made machine-guns and Dreadnoughts, which were like mobile citadels. The most famous barrier on earth, the Great Wall of China, covers a distance of several days’ journeying and was built to halt the incursions against the oppressed peoples of India and China of the savage tribes known in the Qur’an as Gog and Magog, and otherwise known as the Mongols and Manchurians. These tribes several times threw the world of humanity into chaos. Pouring out from behind the Himalayas, they wrought destruction from east to west. A long wall was built between two mountains close to the Himalayan mountains which for a long time prevented the frequent assaults of those savage peoples, and barriers were also built through the efforts of the kings of ancient Persia, who resembled Dhu’l-Qarnayn, in the mountains of Caucasia, in the region of Darband, to halt the inroads of the plundering and pillaging Tatar peoples. There are very many barriers of this sort. Since the All-Wise Qur’an speaks with all mankind, it mentions what is apparently a particular incident, and recalls all events similar to it. It is from this point of view that the narrations differ concerning the Barrier and Gog and Magog, as well as the writings of the Qur’anic commentators about them.
Furthermore, the All-Wise Qur’an switches from one event to another distant one due to the association of ideas. The person who fails to think of this association supposes the two events to be close in time. Thus, the Qur’an’s predicting the end of the world from the destruction of the Barrier is not because the two events are close in time, but to make two subtle points connected with the association of ideas. That is, the world will be destroyed just as the Barrier will be destroyed. Also, just as mountains, which are natural divine barriers, are firm and will be destroyed only at the end of the world; so the Barrier is firm as a mountain and will be levelled to dust only at the destruction of the world. Even if it suffers damage from the assaults of time, it will mostly remain intact. Yes, the Great Wall of China is one particular meaning of the universal meaning of the Barrier of Dhu’l-Qarnayn and has been standing for thousands of years and is still there for all to see. It is read as a long, petrified, meaningful line from ancient history, written by man’s hand on the page of the earth. ~Bediuzzaman~
1. See, Abu Su’ud, Tafsir Abi Su’ud, v, 239-40; Ibn Hajar, Fath al-Bari, vi, 385; al-Alusi, Ruh al-Ma’ani, xvi, 27.
2. See, al-Qurtubi, al-Jami‘ li-Ahkam al-Qur’an, xi, 47; Ibn Kathir, Tafsir al-Qur’an, i, 180; iii, 101; Ibn Hajar, Fath al-Bari, vi, 382; al-Faqihi, Ahbar Makka, iii, 221.3. See, al-Qurtubi, al-Jami‘ li-Ahkam al-Qur’an, xi, 47.
4. See, Ibn Hajar, Fath al-Bari, vi, 382-3; al-Shawkani, al-Fath al-Qadir, iii, 307; al-Khamawi, Mu‘jam al-Buldan, i, 184; al-Hakim, al-Mustadrak, ii, 17, 488.
5. See, al-Tabari, Jami‘ al-Bayan, xvi, 17; al-Qurtubi, al-Jami‘ li-Ahkam al-Qur’an, xi, 45; al-Shawkani, al-Fath al-Qadir, iii, 307; al-Alusi, Ruh al-Ma‘ani, xvi, 26.
Human history goes back in regular fashion approximately three thousand years. This deficient and short view of history is not accurate concerning pre-Abrahamic times. It continues back either as superstition, or as denial, or in very abbreviated form. The reason the Dhu’l-Qarnayn of Yemen was since early times in Qur’anic commentaries known as Alexander, (5) was either because it was one of his names and he was Alexander the Great or the Alexander of Ancient Times, or else the following:
The particular events mentioned in Qur’anic verses are the tips of universal events. Thus, through his prophetic guidance, Alexander the Great, who was Dhu’l-Qarnayn, built a barrier between some peoples, oppressors and oppressed, and built the famous Great Wall of China to prevent the raids of those cruel enemies. Similarly, many powerful kings and world conquerors like Alexander the Greek followed in the path of Dhu’l-Qarnayn materially, while the prophets and spiritual poles, who are the kings of man’s spiritual world, followed him in spiritual matters and guidance; they built barriers between mountains, one of the most effective means of saving the oppressed from oppressors, and later constructed strongholds on mountain peaks. (There are numerous artificial barriers on the face of the earth that with the passing of time have taken on the appearance of mountains or have become unrecognizable.) They founded these themselves through their material power, or through their guidance and planning. Then they built walls surrounding towns and citadels inside the towns, and finally they made machine-guns and Dreadnoughts, which were like mobile citadels. The most famous barrier on earth, the Great Wall of China, covers a distance of several days’ journeying and was built to halt the incursions against the oppressed peoples of India and China of the savage tribes known in the Qur’an as Gog and Magog, and otherwise known as the Mongols and Manchurians. These tribes several times threw the world of humanity into chaos. Pouring out from behind the Himalayas, they wrought destruction from east to west. A long wall was built between two mountains close to the Himalayan mountains which for a long time prevented the frequent assaults of those savage peoples, and barriers were also built through the efforts of the kings of ancient Persia, who resembled Dhu’l-Qarnayn, in the mountains of Caucasia, in the region of Darband, to halt the inroads of the plundering and pillaging Tatar peoples. There are very many barriers of this sort. Since the All-Wise Qur’an speaks with all mankind, it mentions what is apparently a particular incident, and recalls all events similar to it. It is from this point of view that the narrations differ concerning the Barrier and Gog and Magog, as well as the writings of the Qur’anic commentators about them.
Furthermore, the All-Wise Qur’an switches from one event to another distant one due to the association of ideas. The person who fails to think of this association supposes the two events to be close in time. Thus, the Qur’an’s predicting the end of the world from the destruction of the Barrier is not because the two events are close in time, but to make two subtle points connected with the association of ideas. That is, the world will be destroyed just as the Barrier will be destroyed. Also, just as mountains, which are natural divine barriers, are firm and will be destroyed only at the end of the world; so the Barrier is firm as a mountain and will be levelled to dust only at the destruction of the world. Even if it suffers damage from the assaults of time, it will mostly remain intact. Yes, the Great Wall of China is one particular meaning of the universal meaning of the Barrier of Dhu’l-Qarnayn and has been standing for thousands of years and is still there for all to see. It is read as a long, petrified, meaningful line from ancient history, written by man’s hand on the page of the earth. ~Bediuzzaman~
1. See, Abu Su’ud, Tafsir Abi Su’ud, v, 239-40; Ibn Hajar, Fath al-Bari, vi, 385; al-Alusi, Ruh al-Ma’ani, xvi, 27.
2. See, al-Qurtubi, al-Jami‘ li-Ahkam al-Qur’an, xi, 47; Ibn Kathir, Tafsir al-Qur’an, i, 180; iii, 101; Ibn Hajar, Fath al-Bari, vi, 382; al-Faqihi, Ahbar Makka, iii, 221.3. See, al-Qurtubi, al-Jami‘ li-Ahkam al-Qur’an, xi, 47.
4. See, Ibn Hajar, Fath al-Bari, vi, 382-3; al-Shawkani, al-Fath al-Qadir, iii, 307; al-Khamawi, Mu‘jam al-Buldan, i, 184; al-Hakim, al-Mustadrak, ii, 17, 488.
5. See, al-Tabari, Jami‘ al-Bayan, xvi, 17; al-Qurtubi, al-Jami‘ li-Ahkam al-Qur’an, xi, 45; al-Shawkani, al-Fath al-Qadir, iii, 307; al-Alusi, Ruh al-Ma‘ani, xvi, 26.
EnlightenedYout
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Shouldn't have banned his account, his "intelligence" was funny
Also Alexander the Great being so famous why would Arabs use a nickname for him? They would have used the name Iskandar as Alexandria is called El Iskandariya. This is derived from the Persian as Alexander's Persian boy Bogaos always called him Iskandar or Iskander.
There was an ancient Egyptian monotheistic religion, it was the worship of Aton.
There was an ancient Egyptian monotheistic religion, it was the worship of Aton.
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Asalaam O Alaikum...
Actually that should solve the matter of contention here. The Verses of Surah Kahf about Dhul Qarnayn were revealed because Jews in Madinah had posed three questions to the Makkan's who were visiting Yathrib (Madinah) to go an Muhammad (Saw). The Makkan's knew they had so much knowledge from their prophets that it was easy for them to know if this man in Makkah who claims to be a Prophet was indeed a prophet of Allah (swt) or no. So they asked the Jews and the Jews send them with these 3 questions ,
1. Ask him what happened to the young men who disappeared in ancient days,
for they have a marvelous story;
2. Ask him about the mighty traveler who reached the confines of both East and
West;
3. And ask him what is the spirit (Rūh)
They said If he can give you the answer then follow him, for he is a Prophet. If he cannot, then he is a forger and treat him as you will.
So we can imagine Allah (Swt) when revealing the answer to their 2nd question would really be answering the Jews and not the Arabs and so the name would be revealed in a manner understandable to them.
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The OP who has had his account disabled, made some very noobish errors, rather foolishly.
In a few posts he claimed that Cyrus (Khosroe) of Persia, was never associated with 2 horns.
He tried to refute another members posts with bad logic and lies.
Here is a mural of Cyrus the Great.
See two horns? Yes you do.
Cyrus was known to the Jews as who?
He was known as the Masih - meaning, Messiah.
Why?
Because he conquered Babylon, free'd the Jews from the captivity of the tyrant Nebuchadnezzar, returned the Jews back to their homeland (Jerusalem) and commissioned the rebuilding of their temple with his own funds - and guess what? He wasn't even a Jew, he was a gentile.
His empire was the largest known. Expanding even beyond the scope of Romes famous empire in its heyday. His empire is hailed as the largest the world has ever seen. His rulership was just and he accepted the practices of peoples different to his own.
But, was he dhul qarnayn?
Consider, that the Jews were asking the Prophet Muhammad pbuh questions which only a true prophet would know. The plight of the Jews during the time of Babylon, would have been ancient even in the time of the Prophet Muhammad pbuh, so this question would have been a good one to catch out a false prophet or to prove a true one.
So would it not make sense for the jews to test the Prophet pbuh with questions that were seemingly impossible to answer had you not been a Jew? or a learned man?
The Prophet pbuh was neither, he was not a Jew, nor a learnt man - we know he was illiterate - another sign unto the Jews, to await the illiterate prophet - from their holy book. But did they accept him? No.
Look, the hypocrisy is in their questioning - they asked the Prophet pbuh about Dhul Qarnayn - referring to Cyrus, and Cyrus was a gentile - the Jews accpeted a gentile as their messiah...
...yet they could not accept the Prophet Muhammad pbuh (a gentile) as their prophet?
So... let's think on.
Was Dhul Qarnayn, Cyrus the Great?
In order to answer this, we must first answer - was he a monotheist? did he believe in 1 God?
So it seems that the religious identity of Cyrus the great is unknown, though he has appealed to pagan gods in the infamous Cyrus Cylinder, however, the deciphering of cuneiform is not exactly a science per se, but since we're talking about the Cyrus Cylinder... this also reminds me of relatively recent find in China...
[h=2]Chinese bones bearing Inscriptions of Cyrus the Great[/h]In what can be termed as a ground-breaking finding, two fossilised horse bones with cuneiform inscriptions have been discovered in China. What makes these finds remarkable is the fact one of these has been carved with elements of the Cyrus the Great Cylinder. These findings were report by London’s Art Newspaper, Iran’s Tabnak News, and the London-based CAIS (Circle of Ancient Iranian Studies).
...indicating that Cyrus' empire could have very well exerted itself to fringes of the far eastern coast of China...
And in Al Kahf, we find the following ayah:
18:92 - Then he followed a way
18:93 - Until, when he reached [a pass] between two mountains, he found beside them a people who could hardly understand [his] speech.
All semitic languages carry the same etymological roots. Hamitic languages such as those of the Africas also carry the same etymological roots. The same with Japhitic languages... but the Chinese are Hamitic in root:
Most Hamitic languages though, are actually African, and not Asian - except in one case - the Chinese.... in fact, over antiquity, the Chinese language developed its hamitic form so much that it was unrecognisable even to the Hamites of Africa - so naturally Semites and Japhetites would also find this language quite alien.
Further, could one not reconcile that if Cyris was indeed Dhul Qarnayn, his travelling to fringes of the Chinese peoples would have been at a time when they 9the Chinese) were being raided by warriors of the northern steppe?
Look, if you want me to carry on, I can seriously piece home some amazing information for you all - such as the true etymology of the words Ya'juj and Ma'juj, but I am no scholar nor am i a student of knowledge. The research i do, I do out of personal interest only. So do understand that what i share here, is not the gospel truth, but the truth as I see it.
And Allah knows best.
Scimi
In a few posts he claimed that Cyrus (Khosroe) of Persia, was never associated with 2 horns.
He tried to refute another members posts with bad logic and lies.
Here is a mural of Cyrus the Great.
See two horns? Yes you do.
Cyrus was known to the Jews as who?
He was known as the Masih - meaning, Messiah.
Why?
Because he conquered Babylon, free'd the Jews from the captivity of the tyrant Nebuchadnezzar, returned the Jews back to their homeland (Jerusalem) and commissioned the rebuilding of their temple with his own funds - and guess what? He wasn't even a Jew, he was a gentile.
His empire was the largest known. Expanding even beyond the scope of Romes famous empire in its heyday. His empire is hailed as the largest the world has ever seen. His rulership was just and he accepted the practices of peoples different to his own.
But, was he dhul qarnayn?
Consider, that the Jews were asking the Prophet Muhammad pbuh questions which only a true prophet would know. The plight of the Jews during the time of Babylon, would have been ancient even in the time of the Prophet Muhammad pbuh, so this question would have been a good one to catch out a false prophet or to prove a true one.
So would it not make sense for the jews to test the Prophet pbuh with questions that were seemingly impossible to answer had you not been a Jew? or a learned man?
The Prophet pbuh was neither, he was not a Jew, nor a learnt man - we know he was illiterate - another sign unto the Jews, to await the illiterate prophet - from their holy book. But did they accept him? No.
Look, the hypocrisy is in their questioning - they asked the Prophet pbuh about Dhul Qarnayn - referring to Cyrus, and Cyrus was a gentile - the Jews accpeted a gentile as their messiah...
...yet they could not accept the Prophet Muhammad pbuh (a gentile) as their prophet?
So... let's think on.
Was Dhul Qarnayn, Cyrus the Great?
In order to answer this, we must first answer - was he a monotheist? did he believe in 1 God?
wiki said:
wiki said:
So it seems that the religious identity of Cyrus the great is unknown, though he has appealed to pagan gods in the infamous Cyrus Cylinder, however, the deciphering of cuneiform is not exactly a science per se, but since we're talking about the Cyrus Cylinder... this also reminds me of relatively recent find in China...
[h=2]Chinese bones bearing Inscriptions of Cyrus the Great[/h]In what can be termed as a ground-breaking finding, two fossilised horse bones with cuneiform inscriptions have been discovered in China. What makes these finds remarkable is the fact one of these has been carved with elements of the Cyrus the Great Cylinder. These findings were report by London’s Art Newspaper, Iran’s Tabnak News, and the London-based CAIS (Circle of Ancient Iranian Studies).
...indicating that Cyrus' empire could have very well exerted itself to fringes of the far eastern coast of China...
And in Al Kahf, we find the following ayah:
18:92 - Then he followed a way
18:93 - Until, when he reached [a pass] between two mountains, he found beside them a people who could hardly understand [his] speech.
All semitic languages carry the same etymological roots. Hamitic languages such as those of the Africas also carry the same etymological roots. The same with Japhitic languages... but the Chinese are Hamitic in root:
Most Hamitic languages though, are actually African, and not Asian - except in one case - the Chinese.... in fact, over antiquity, the Chinese language developed its hamitic form so much that it was unrecognisable even to the Hamites of Africa - so naturally Semites and Japhetites would also find this language quite alien.
Further, could one not reconcile that if Cyris was indeed Dhul Qarnayn, his travelling to fringes of the Chinese peoples would have been at a time when they 9the Chinese) were being raided by warriors of the northern steppe?
Look, if you want me to carry on, I can seriously piece home some amazing information for you all - such as the true etymology of the words Ya'juj and Ma'juj, but I am no scholar nor am i a student of knowledge. The research i do, I do out of personal interest only. So do understand that what i share here, is not the gospel truth, but the truth as I see it.
And Allah knows best.
Scimi
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The OP who has had his account disabled, made some very noobish errors, rather foolishly.
In a few posts he claimed that Cyrus (Khosroe) of Persia, was never associated with 2 horns.
He tried to refute another members posts with bad logic and lies.
Here is a mural of Cyrus the Great.
See two horns? Yes you do.
Cyrus was known to the Jews as who?
He was known as the Masih - meaning, Messiah.
Why?
Because he conquered Babylon, free'd the Jews from the captivity of the tyrant Nebuchadnezzar, returned the Jews back to their homeland (Jerusalem) and commissioned the rebuilding of their temple with his own funds - and guess what? He wasn't even a Jew, he was a gentile.
His empire was the largest known. Expanding even beyond the scope of Romes famous empire in its heyday. His empire is hailed as the largest the world has ever seen. His rulership was just and he accepted the practices of peoples different to his own.
But, was he dhul qarnayn?
Consider, that the Jews were asking the Prophet Muhammad pbuh questions which only a true prophet would know. The plight of the Jews during the time of Babylon, would have been ancient even in the time of the Prophet Muhammad pbuh, so this question would have been a good one to catch out a false prophet or to prove a true one.
So would it not make sense for the jews to test the Prophet pbuh with questions that were seemingly impossible to answer had you not been a Jew? or a learned man?
The Prophet pbuh was neither, he was not a Jew, nor a learnt man - we know he was illiterate - another sign unto the Jews, to await the illiterate prophet - from their holy book. But did they accept him? No.
Look, the hypocrisy is in their questioning - they asked the Prophet pbuh about Dhul Qarnayn - referring to Cyrus, and Cyrus was a gentile - the Jews accpeted a gentile as their messiah...
...yet they could not accept the Prophet Muhammad pbuh (a gentile) as their prophet?
So... let's think on.
Was Dhul Qarnayn, Cyrus the Great?
In order to answer this, we must first answer - was he a monotheist? did he believe in 1 God?
So it seems that the religious identity of Cyrus the great is unknown, though he has appealed to pagan gods in the infamous Cyrus Cylinder, however, the deciphering of cuneiform is not exactly a science per se, but since we're talking about the Cyrus Cylinder... this also reminds me of relatively recent find in China...
[h=2]Chinese bones bearing Inscriptions of Cyrus the Great[/h]In what can be termed as a ground-breaking finding, two fossilised horse bones with cuneiform inscriptions have been discovered in China. What makes these finds remarkable is the fact one of these has been carved with elements of the Cyrus the Great Cylinder. These findings were report by London’s Art Newspaper, Iran’s Tabnak News, and the London-based CAIS (Circle of Ancient Iranian Studies).
...indicating that Cyrus' empire could have very well exerted itself to fringes of the far eastern coast of China...
And in Al Kahf, we find the following ayah:
18:92 - Then he followed a way
18:93 - Until, when he reached [a pass] between two mountains, he found beside them a people who could hardly understand [his] speech.
All semitic languages carry the same etymological roots. Hamitic languages such as those of the Africas also carry the same etymological roots. The same with Japhitic languages... but the Chinese are Hamitic in root:
Most Hamitic languages though, are actually African, and not Asian - except in one case - the Chinese.... in fact, over antiquity, the Chinese language developed its hamitic form so much that it was unrecognisable even to the Hamites of Africa - so naturally Semites and Japhetites would also find this language quite alien.
Further, could one not reconcile that if Cyris was indeed Dhul Qarnayn, his travelling to fringes of the Chinese peoples would have been at a time when they 9the Chinese) were being raided by warriors of the northern steppe?
Look, if you want me to carry on, I can seriously piece home some amazing information for you all - such as the true etymology of the words Ya'juj and Ma'juj, but I am no scholar nor am i a student of knowledge. The research i do, I do out of personal interest only. So do understand that what i share here, is not the gospel truth, but the truth as I see it.
And Allah knows best.
Scimi
That is quite interesting. I love history and would live to read more.
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Sorry guys, but I noticed that I made a small mistake in my original post. The red part should have been Alexander the Greek, not Alexander the Great.
I tried to edit the post, but I couldn't find the link. Maybe it is because the site is under construction. Maybe one of the admins can help me correct the original post. Thanks.
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Dreamin;n1979600 said:
in sha Allah all will be revealed when I am ready.
As for anyone following Shaikh Imran Hoseins theory... you'll be surprised how his version of the wall is located in Alexander territory, ie: caucuses... silly. The caucuses is more middle earth than not.
I really want to say more, but after labouring years on this research, last thing I want is for it to be released prematurely on the net. I'd rather concrete the informations first, release the series of videos and then, blog the info for further critique by experts... this is how I want it to go... but if you cannot wait, and wish to contribute research, then PM me - but only if you are serious - and I will send you a link where you can see the work my team and I are doing in sha Allah.
Scimi
EDIT: a small teaser, Radm / sadda...
when I overlayed Al Idrisi's infamous Tabulus Rogeriana onto google earth, the location of the barrier was approximated to the verkhoyansk/chersky/momsky ranges in Siberia... so I removed the map and started looking at the terra fauna, the topography and the routes... then finally, after figuring out where the most likeliest routes would have taken Dhul Qarnayn from China's east coast to Siberias ICE WALL - I started to look at the panoramio photo's... and came across this:
in the classical exegetes of Al Kahf, we find that the description ot the two mountains are likened to two parts of a sea shell, adjoined at the bottom and opened at the top... now look at this pic. Allah knows best.