Atheism

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

i was thinking that if monkeys turned into humans (dats what athiests believe...dont they?)

No, they (evolutionists) believe that monkeys [primates] and humans have a common ancestor.

 

[The Ruler]

No, they (evolutionists) believe that monkeys [primates] and humans have a common ancestor.

which means monkeys r our cousins :?

so do evolutionists also believe that after generations, part of the human population is to become aliens? :?

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

a soul is NOT supernatural....a body cant just simply stop working at any time.... there has to be an explanation...:rollseyes

We were talking about souls, weren't we? Sorry, I had forgotten.

OK. If we want to get anywhere, I need to ask you what you mean by a soul. I'm not sure if I believe in them, but it depends on your definition.

Hopefully Ansar's post will have answered your question about evolution, although I should point out that not all evolutionists are atheists. They are not the same.

which means monkeys r our cousins

Yes.

so do evolutionists also believe that after generations, part of the human population is to become aliens?

You've lost me there.

Peace

 

[The Ruler]

We were talking about souls, weren't we? Sorry, I had forgotten.

You've lost me there.

by souls i mean ruh, it is the main part that keeps us alive....im sure someone who is better in explanation will explain it to you...because at the moment i myself am learning.

so do evolutionists also believe that after generations, part of the human population is to become aliens?

i meant that like after generations, we half of the population of the monkey have turned into humans..am i right?

so what i mean here is that after generations, will half of the human generation too evaluate into some other species? the world being a place with loads of different aliens?!!!??

this might be a completely different point but i recall reading that the best of the species survive...so in this case (between monkeys and humans) arent the best of them be able to survive?

 

[anis_z24]

Salam
I have a question to all the atheists.
The Quran contains scienctific facts from over a thousand years ago.
So who would guess then how humans are made?
How the earth is round?
The Quran has many more but answer these.
The Quran was never changed, so how then can this be written by an human?
Therefore God exists.

 

[HeiGou]

Salam
I have a question to all the atheists.
The Quran contains scienctific facts from over a thousand years ago.
So who would guess then how humans are made?
How the earth is round?
The Quran has many more but answer these.
The Quran was never changed, so how then can this be written by an human?
Therefore God exists.

I do not know who would guess how humans were made then. I do not accept that the Quran tells us - or at least that Muslims read it and knew that it told them. Everyone knew the world was round. The Greeks even calculated how big it was with some degree of accuracy centuries before Muhammed was born. The fact that the Quran has never changed is proof that Muslims censored it. Jane Austen's novels have also never changed. Are they proof of what?

How do you go from a series of non sequiters to belief in God?

 

[HeiGou]

i meant that like after generations, we half of the population of the monkey have turned into humans..am i right?

so what i mean here is that after generations, will half of the human generation too evaluate into some other species? the world being a place with loads of different aliens?!!!??

this might be a completely different point but i recall reading that the best of the species survive...so in this case (between monkeys and humans) arent the best of them be able to survive?

The human population is changing, slowly, all the time. An example would be the people who no longer die. People with dangerous but treatable diseases now live and have children whereas they used to die. Human heads are only so big because otherwise they would not fit through the pelvis of most women. But it is close as it is. Over time more babies with big heads will survive (and so will their mothers) whereas in the past they would have died in childbirth. It may be the case that in a few centuries humans will no longer be able to have children naturally and without medical intervention.

Does this means aliens? Perhaps, but humans are all moving and marrying each other these days. So it is unlikely that the population will split into different groups. Just that what is human now will not be the same as what is human in a hundred thousand years.

 

[anis_z24]

I do not know who would guess how humans were made then. I do not accept that the Quran tells us - or at least that Muslims read it and knew that it told them. Everyone knew the world was round. The Greeks even calculated how big it was with some degree of accuracy centuries before Muhammed was born. The fact that the Quran has never changed is proof that Muslims censored it. Jane Austen's novels have also never changed. Are they proof of what?

How do you go from a series of non sequiters to belief in God?

Salam
ok if thats what you think fine, although its not true.
Answer this how then did the Quran tell us how a human is created.
from the spec of sperm to the stage of bones and flesh.
How can anyone draw what happens and how, 1400 years ago.
The Quran was never changed.

 

[HeiGou]

ok if that what you think fine, although its not true.
Answer this how then did the Quran tell us how a human is created.
from the spec of sperm to the stage of bones and flesh.

I do not accept that it does. If you take a text, assume it means what you want it to say, torture the text a little, you can make it say what you like. What are the suras you have in mind? It is a certainty that if these texts do refer to the creation of humans in a scientific manner, no Muslims knew it until recently.

[quotye] How can anyone draw what happens and how, 1400 years ago. [/quote]

Well obviously people cannot. Maybe God can. But then I do not think that the Quran does, or at least that the people who read it back then did not think it did.

The Quran was never changed.

Really? I quoted a passage today on stoning. And first I should say I am perfectly happy to accept that the Quran has never changed. But there was a time when some Muslims were willing to consider a claim that it had. What is your opinion on this subject? After all Bukhari did not reject this hadith as obviously not true. He must have considered it possible that it was. Why do you think he was wrong? Let me quote the text.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 8, Book 82, Number 817:

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:
>deletions<
Ibn Abbas added:
>deletions<
In the meantime, 'Umar sat on the pulpit and when the callmakers for the prayer had finished their call, 'Umar stood up, and having glorified and praised Allah as He deserved, he said, "Now then, I am going to tell you something which (Allah) has written for me to say. I do not know; perhaps it portends my death, so whoever understands and remembers it, must narrate it to the others wherever his mount takes him, but if somebody is afraid that he does not understand it, then it is unlawful for him to tell lies about me. Allah sent Muhammad with the Truth and revealed the Holy Book to him, and among what Allah revealed, was the Verse of the Rajam (the stoning of married person (male & female) who commits illegal sexual intercourse, and we did recite this Verse and understood and memorized it. Allah's Apostle did carry out the punishment of stoning and so did we after him.

I am afraid that after a long time has passed, somebody will say, 'By Allah, we do not find the Verse of the Rajam in Allah's Book,' and thus they will go astray by leaving an obligation which Allah has revealed. And the punishment of the Rajam is to be inflicted to any married person (male & female), who commits illegal sexual intercourse, if the required evidence is available or there is conception or confession. And then we used to recite among the Verses in Allah's Book: 'O people! Do not claim to be the offspring of other than your fathers, as it is disbelief (unthankfulness) on your part that you claim to be the offspring of other than your real father.'
>deletions<​

 

[The Ruler]

hmmmm... but the hadith says that one day.....this day is referred to the days when the day of judgement is nearing. during those days, faithful people are to be very low in number and astry and bad people are to surround the world.

 

[anis_z24]

Salam
Dear HeiGou.
So do you still think that God does not exisit, when in the Quran it mentions the a certain punishment where people will have their skin burned then given new skin.
How does any one know back then about pain reciptors.
no one, there for God exists.

 

[anis_z24]

I think that being good makes you happy. And conversely whatever makes you happy, in the sense of really happy and in the long run, must be good. It seems obvious to me that it is better to love, and be loved, by one woman than have sex with many you hardly know. It seems better to me to work hard, earn your own money, live in your own house, than to steal. It seems obvious to me that drinking to excess or taking drugs is only going to impair your mind and ruin your life.

Now I do not need God to believe any of those things. They seem self evident and clear to me. Do you think they are irrational and can only be supported by an appeal to the divine?

Salam
what ever you challenge God, you will find the answer in the Quran.

 

[anis_z24]

Greetings Tagrid,


That is what I believe, since I've never seen any evidence to support the idea that the universe had a creator.



I don't believe they existed, and I'm sure anyone who believes in evolution would agree. I'd be very surprised if you found an atheist who did believe in Adam and Eve.



They threw a few Christians to the lions though! Anyway, the Romans had a religion too. It was a combination of the religion of the ancient Greeks with the worship of emperors as gods in human form.



Absolutely right.

Peace

Salam
there are numerous proofs that prove that God exists, only you denied.
The Quran came with things that only a supernatural being can know them..

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Salam
Dear HeiGou.
So do you still think that God does not exisit, when in the Quran it mentions the a certain punishment where people will have their skin burned then given new skin.
How does any one know back then about pain reciptors.
no one, there for God exists.

Is that your version of syllogistic logic?

there are numerous proofs that prove that God exists, only you denied.
The Quran came with things that only a supernatural being can know them..

There's no such thing as a proof that god exists. See post #81 in this thread for more of my views on this kind of use of language.

Peace

 

[anis_z24]

Salam
why is troubling you not to accept the truth.
the world has to have a start, who started it(in plain lanuage). nothing happens on its own.
If you put some metal,wires,rubber,leather(and whatever makes a car) and shake them in a box for ........ a million years. And wow a Mercedez come out.
That does not happen logicly speaking.
so same case for the universe and whats in it.
also try to use a lighter tone, it sounds as though you always reply, trying to out smart people.
or maybe thats just me.
So I hope Allah will guid you to the straight path,

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

the world has to have a start, who started it(in plain lanuage). nothing happens on its own.
If you put some metal,wires,rubber,leather(and whatever makes a car) and shake them in a box for ........ a million years. And wow a Mercedez come out.
That does not happen logicly speaking.
so same case for the universe and whats in it.

Perhaps. It's the argument from design again. I've talked about it on the forum before, but I'm not sure which threads it was in.

Here's a decent summation of the argument and it's reception in the history of ideas:

Argument from Design

also try to use a lighter tone, it sounds as though you always reply, trying to out smart people. or maybe thats just me.

It's not just you, I'm aware that I sometimes speak to people with undue harshness, and I apologise. It's just that in the educational system I'm a product of, outsmarting people is considered to be a good thing. Remember though, that two can play at that game, and there's a good chance you can outsmart me right back!

Peace

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Hello Hei Gou,
You cited a narration from Sahih Bukhari in order to support your claim that the Qur'an has been changed, but there are a couple of points to note:
-if that verse was not in the Qur'an at the time of Umar and was supposed to be, then why wouldn't he and the other companions include it in the compilation? Why would they not include it and then warn people that a time would come when people would think the ruling of rajam was not revealed?
-if you think Umar was warning the people of a time in the future when that verse may not be part of the compilation, then how did Umar know that the verse would later be removed?

The above two points are sufficient to refute your interpretation of the hadith. As for the correct interpretation, this is one of the verses whose recitation has been abrogated, yet its ruling remains. It has nothing to do with alteration of the Qur'an.

 

[yasin]

One thing that continually upsets me regarding religion is the amount of respect and friends i've lost simply because i believe in a religion.

Atheists in general are amongst the most arrogant individuals in the world, and i'm only talking about Atheists- it does not reflect people who simply dont believe.

Let me iterate, i call someone who does not believe and BELIEVES that there is no God an Atheist. Whilst someone who simply doesnt believe or have opinions is just an undecided Atheist

if that makes any sense

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

One thing that continually upsets me regarding religion is the amount of respect and friends i've lost simply because i believe in a religion.

Good for you for sticking to what you believe in.

Atheists in general are amongst the most arrogant individuals in the world, and i'm only talking about Atheists- it does not reflect people who simply dont believe.

Um, do I know you? Have you met every atheist and come to this conclusion? Your comment is just as silly as someone saying: "Muslims in general are among the most arrogant people in the world."

Let me iterate, i call someone who does not believe and BELIEVES that there is no God an Atheist. Whilst someone who simply doesnt believe or have opinions is just an undecided Atheist

I think what you're talking about is the difference between an atheist and an agnostic. There are subsections within these two classifications as well, but in general if you ask an atheist if god exists they will say "no", whereas if you ask an agnostic the same question they will say "I don't know".

Peace

 

[anis_z24]

Greetings,


Perhaps. It's the argument from design again. I've talked about it on the forum before, but I'm not sure which threads it was in.

Here's a decent summation of the argument and it's reception in the history of ideas:

Argument from Design



It's not just you, I'm aware that I sometimes speak to people with undue harshness, and I apologise. It's just that in the educational system I'm a product of, outsmarting people is considered to be a good thing. Remember though, that two can play at that game, and there's a good chance you can outsmart me right back!

Peace

Salam,
if someone does not organize a creation, then how can it come on its own.
things don't move on their own.