“They forced me to pray towards the U.S. not Mecca”

[Rou]

Why not? You seem to be doing a lot of judging. On what basis do you judge America's actions?

It is a simple question of Islamic law - if the Allies of the Quyrash attack the Allies of the Muslims, is that a valid casus belli? It is not as direct as in this case when the Allies of the Taleban actually attacked America, and not just once, and not just killing one man, not an Ally.



And yet this is what happened with the Meccans. Osama was not only supported by the Taleban, who were not the official recognised government of Afghanistan, but protected by them as well. It made sense to Muhammed to attack Mecca and rip up the Treaty of al-Hudaybiyah when the Quraysh's allies attacked his allies. Do you know the phrase what is good for the goose is good for the gander? Why the double standard?



Well what I call it is neither hee nor there but the US government does not call it a war or, as I said, they would be POWs and treated better.

A massacre? Well yes, I guess it was.



If someone attacks you, you sort of have to attack back. The US put up with a lot from Osama Bin Laden. He thought that meant the US was weak. Well there's a mistake he will not make twice. And assuming that Osama's messages mean what they seem to mean (please make peace with me, and, later when that failed, if you don't make peace with me I'll huff and I'll puff and blow your house down) presumably OBL is running scared.



What oil? Afghanistan is not worth it. No one thinks so. The US is paying half the government budget. It is a dump. A beautiful dump, but the entire economy is worth about nothing.



Well never as far as I can see. Always thought that was a bad idea. But at least the sanctions are gone.



Afghanistan was more than one man. Iraq seems to be a war based on a desire to finish the job and get on with it. But I don't know for sure.



Well it ain't pretty but we are playing with the Big Boys now. The US did not start this. The US does not play as dirty as their enemies. But bad things need to happen to bad people.



It is unfortunate that they are being held as illegal combatants and it is a pity you do not see what I mean, but the fact remains if they were POWs they would be much better off.



Which is big of you. Not a feeling shared by many people in the Third World I have notice.



Explain that one to me as it applies to women. It is within Western culture to show mercy and honor as well. Sometimes the West does. But then it is also within Muslim culture to kidnap peace workers and torture them and then execute them. Sometimes we do not live up to the best of our traditions. Neither your brothers, nor the Americans.



I am not justifying it. I just don't think it is the biggest injustice in the world at the moment.

LOL im judging??

You can not force someone to open there eyes..it is your choice..
You do not see it as the biggest injustice in the world...

Ok...

that is your choice...

You say that my brothers and sisters do not show the same compassion you may hear from me? they too are muslim they run by the same rules as me...

as i said there are stated rules when at war..from a prespective of afgan and iraq muslims have been attacked on the basis of a war against terror...

that really makes no sense..

As i said you answer no question instead you make new questions...

what was the iraq war for? US comes into afgan and iraq to start there own little war and you justify the death of so many innocents so easily??

Pathetic...

One man aint worth that many lives...

You do not seem to have all the facts..

as i said i have compassion for both sides i want justice..

You seem to be batting for one side and it aint justice its justification...

So calmlyyou sit there and explain how theres nothing in afgan fo US!? do you know of what you even talk ?? theres no oil are you quite sure my friend!?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/analysis/16777.stm

A report from 1997!!! without a coalition with the taliban and northen alliance there would be no pipeline there would be no coalition so where are the taliban now? and are those plans going ahead now ohh yes...

Also oil isnt the only factor! theres nothing in afgan expect what did you say?? a beutiful dump????

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/3704878.stm

Thats 2004....wake up..

Your view is blinded......

Behead aid workers...oh please how would that make sense...
Yeah ok a bunch of insurgents grab a aid worker and behead him!?
Oh that will anger the west..oh we wont look bad will we oh it wont cause more hate for us in the west will it..

nothing to gain..

whatever you want to beleive you beleive..

this war was started for greed not weapons of mass destructions not osama not for democracy...

for greed...

 

[HeiGou]

LOL im judging??

Yes. Explicitly and clearly. Admittedly you are only judging kafirs, but if it is not wrong to attack pagans because their allies attack your allies, why is it wrong to attack Muslims if they allies attack you?

You can not force someone to open there eyes..it is your choice..
You do not see it as the biggest injustice in the world...

What in your opinion is the biggest injustice in the world?

as i said there are stated rules when at war..from a prespective of afgan and iraq muslims have been attacked on the basis of a war against terror...

that really makes no sense..

Well Iraq makes little sense to me, but Afghanistan makes perfect sense.

what was the iraq war for? US comes into afgan and iraq to start there own little war and you justify the death of so many innocents so easily??

Actually it took a massive terrorist attack for the US to justify those two wars. The US did not start either. Iraq attacked Kuwait. OBL attacked the US.

One man aint worth that many lives...

In your opinion but we have established you have double standards when it comes to Americans. 3000 lives. Remember that. Not one man.

as i said i have compassion for both sides i want justice..

You seem to be batting for one side and it aint justice its justification...

I certainly want justice, but justice has to include punishment for terrorists.

What sort of justice do you want?

So calmlyyou sit there and explain how theres nothing in afgan fo US!? do you know of what you even talk ?? theres no oil are you quite sure my friend!?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/analysis/16777.stm

A report from 1997!!! without a coalition with the taliban and northen alliance there would be no pipeline there would be no coalition so where are the taliban now? and are those plans going ahead now ohh yes...

Absolutely sure. No oil. A little gas. That pipeline would have taken oil from Central Asia to Pakistan. But the Taleban were happy to deal. As your article says,

The Talebans' minister for information, Mulla Amir Khan Muttaqi, said on Sunday that despite the presence in Turkmenistan of a Taleban delegation last week, the Kabul government had not signed any deal with anyone. Mulla Muttaqi did not rule out a deal with the UNOCAL-led consortium, But he also did not rule out a deal with a rival consortium, led by the Argentinian Bridas company.

Bridas have been competing with UNOCAL for the Afghan pipeline project for some time, The Turkmen deal with UNOCAL is clearly a severe blow to Bridas, though judging from the Taleban statement the Argentinians have not given up hope yet.​

Why invade when they would have signed any such deal anyway?

And where is the evidence that deal is going ahead now?

Also oil isnt the only factor! theres nothing in afgan expect what did you say?? a beutiful dump????

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/3704878.stm

Thats 2004....wake up..

Let me quote your source, "Afghanistan remains one of the poorest places on Earth."

You think the Americans invaded to protect the opium crop?

Your view is blinded......

Says the man who thinks the US invaded to protect heroin production.

Behead aid workers...oh please how would that make sense...
Yeah ok a bunch of insurgents grab a aid worker and behead him!?
Oh that will anger the west..oh we wont look bad will we oh it wont cause more hate for us in the west will it..

nothing to gain..

It may frighten the West. It may work to undermine public support for the occupation (which it has). It seems to work fine to me. But of course the insurgents do not care what the West thinks. They do not even care what the Iraqis think. Victory is God's gift to give to whomever He wants and so they are trying to please Him don't you think?

So you are claiming the CIA or Mossad is to blame? Oh la.

 

[Kittygyal]

o ma god this man's write so much lol

take care

 

[Rou]

Yes. Explicitly and clearly. Admittedly you are only judging kafirs, but if it is not wrong to attack pagans because their allies attack your allies, why is it wrong to attack Muslims if they allies attack you?



What in your opinion is the biggest injustice in the world?



Well Iraq makes little sense to me, but Afghanistan makes perfect sense.



Actually it took a massive terrorist attack for the US to justify those two wars. The US did not start either. Iraq attacked Kuwait. OBL attacked the US.



In your opinion but we have established you have double standards when it comes to Americans. 3000 lives. Remember that. Not one man.



I certainly want justice, but justice has to include punishment for terrorists.

What sort of justice do you want?



Absolutely sure. No oil. A little gas. That pipeline would have taken oil from Central Asia to Pakistan. But the Taleban were happy to deal. As your article says,

The Talebans' minister for information, Mulla Amir Khan Muttaqi, said on Sunday that despite the presence in Turkmenistan of a Taleban delegation last week, the Kabul government had not signed any deal with anyone. Mulla Muttaqi did not rule out a deal with the UNOCAL-led consortium, But he also did not rule out a deal with a rival consortium, led by the Argentinian Bridas company.

Bridas have been competing with UNOCAL for the Afghan pipeline project for some time, The Turkmen deal with UNOCAL is clearly a severe blow to Bridas, though judging from the Taleban statement the Argentinians have not given up hope yet.​

Why invade when they would have signed any such deal anyway?

And where is the evidence that deal is going ahead now?



Let me quote your source, "Afghanistan remains one of the poorest places on Earth."

You think the Americans invaded to protect the opium crop?



Says the man who thinks the US invaded to protect heroin production.



It may frighten the West. It may work to undermine public support for the occupation (which it has). It seems to work fine to me. But of course the insurgents do not care what the West thinks. They do not even care what the Iraqis think. Victory is God's gift to give to whomever He wants and so they are trying to please Him don't you think?

So you are claiming the CIA or Mossad is to blame? Oh la.

??? ok.. i think your and my conversation is preety much over my friend...as it seems you dont understand the working of this world... america wouldnt protect the opium my friend they would use it to there advantage...

but let me guess im just talking conspiracy theories right?? just like the weapons of mass destruction were conspiracy theories hey? just like the way israel and its nuclear program is a conspiracy theory?

let me tell you something my ill informed friend you should not talk about things you do not understand and it seems you are truly quite uninformed about what muslims are or beleive in and also what americas true aims are around the world yet you dont seem to want to face up to those facts you merely steer clear of those questions...

what are you here to prove? that america isnt the bad guy in the iraq war or in afgan? that president bush isnt preety much a psyco?

U are in denial my friend you are looking for reasons to justfiy killings...what those people in guntanmo dont have rights? there prisonrs of war?

as i said what damn war??? only 10 of the 800 prisoners have ever been convicted of anything! 3 years of there life gone suffering so much for what? being in the wrong place? for being muslim?

U have justification for that?

3000 lives were lost on the 9th september 2001...

i do not justfiy there deaths they were wrong as they were innocent...

But you are telling me in place of those 3000 the millions that have died been mamed and those who are suffering today deserve what is happening to them...

Then truly you are blind to what justice is...and to what is truly going on in this world..

i suggest you find out what this is really all about and what suffering is truly taking place before you make your statments...

 

[HeiGou]

??? ok.. i think your and my conversation is preety much over my friend...as it seems you dont understand the working of this world... america wouldnt protect the opium my friend they would use it to there advantage...

How would protecting the opium crop work to their advantage? What sort of unhappy frame of mind do you have to have to think this sort of tning?

but let me guess im just talking conspiracy theories right?? just like the weapons of mass destruction were conspiracy theories hey? just like the way israel and its nuclear program is a conspiracy theory?

Israel and its nuclear program is not a conspiracy theory. There is evidence. Israel clearly has nuclear weapons.

what are you here to prove? that america isnt the bad guy in the iraq war or in afgan? that president bush isnt preety much a psyco?

I am trying to bring you back into the real world where normal people live. I am not saying America is not the bad guy. I am saying that the reality is more complicated than your simplistic Satanic conspiracy theories allow.

U are in denial my friend you are looking for reasons to justfiy killings...what those people in guntanmo dont have rights? there prisonrs of war?

I have said twice now that if they were prisoners of war they would have more rights. They are not prisoners of war but illegal combatants. Thus they have very little in the way of rights.

as i said what damn war??? only 10 of the 800 prisoners have ever been convicted of anything! 3 years of there life gone suffering so much for what? being in the wrong place? for being muslim?

For being in the pay of the Taleban and/or al-Qaeda or at least making the Americans think so. Three years of their lives is not that much compared to what the people who died in 9-11 lost. Injustices happen all over the world. Why pick on this one? Algeria and Morocco got around to exchanging POWs the other day. Care to condemn that?

3000 lives were lost on the 9th september 2001...

i do not justfiy there deaths they were wrong as they were innocent...

But you are telling me in place of those 3000 the millions that have died been mamed and those who are suffering today deserve what is happening to them...

Millions have not died. Millions are not suffering. In fact most Afghans and Iraqis are mildly better off. A few thousand have died. Maybe tens of thousands. That is bad, but the Us is hardly to blame.

 

[Rou]

How would protecting the opium crop work to their advantage? What sort of unhappy frame of mind do you have to have to think this sort of tning?



Israel and its nuclear program is not a conspiracy theory. There is evidence. Israel clearly has nuclear weapons. .

Do you understand the concept of sarcasem? Exactly yet they are never questioned or pulled up on the nuclear weapons they posses!? hello?

I am trying to bring you back into the real world where normal people live. I am not saying America is not the bad guy. I am saying that the reality is more complicated than your simplistic Satanic conspiracy theories allow.



I have said twice now that if they were prisoners of war they would have more rights. They are not prisoners of war but illegal combatants. Thus they have very little in the way of rights.



For being in the pay of the Taleban and/or al-Qaeda or at least making the Americans think so. Three years of their lives is not that much compared to what the people who died in 9-11 lost. Injustices happen all over the world. Why pick on this one? Algeria and Morocco got around to exchanging POWs the other day. Care to condemn that?



Millions have not died. Millions are not suffering. In fact most Afghans and Iraqis are mildly better off. A few thousand have died. Maybe tens of thousands. That is bad, but the Us is hardly to blame.

Your statments are ridiculous mate whatever man what frame of mind are you walking around in it seems what YOU term as justice is ok and whatever else any man is suffering is just fine?

ok mate whatever you say you think im the one who needs to be brought into what YOU call reality?? no thanx then im fine where i am....

At least i dont think its ok to leave innocents suffering so that some ponce can get a feel that the victims of 9/11 are getting some sort of justice!?

at least i aint thinking its ok to kill tens of thousands as YOU put it to justfiy the deaths of 3000 by one single group of people...

By what your saying we should all pack ogether and wipe out every american for the near extinction of the native americans my friend...

oh but that was in the past right!?

my god how old are you? can you not see how one sided and biast your view is!?

In plain its ok to wipe out countries to avenge 3000 deaths? that is preety much what your saying... then as i said more native americans have suffered and lost more than those 3000 lives should we wipe out majority of americans due to that!??

like i said im here for justice and yes my form of justice and that is to get those who are causing true evil on this earth for there own greed!

Not your justice that seems to condone as YOU put it tens of thousands suffering and dying for the deaths of 3000 americans!

 

[HeiGou]

Do you understand the concept of sarcasem? Exactly yet they are never questioned or pulled up on the nuclear weapons they posses!? hello?

Can't think why not.

Your statments are ridiculous mate whatever man what frame of mind are you walking around in it seems what YOU term as justice is ok and whatever else any man is suffering is just fine?

What is happening is clearly not justice, but again I come back to your unique concern for people arrested by the US and not for anyone detained for much longer in much worse conditions if they happen to be victims of Muslims. Why is that?

At least i dont think its ok to leave innocents suffering so that some ponce can get a feel that the victims of 9/11 are getting some sort of justice!?

Yes, but why not? You are not outraged about Morocco and Algeria holding each others nationals for 30 years. Why are you so upset about Americans doing it for 3?

at least i aint thinking its ok to kill tens of thousands as YOU put it to justfiy the deaths of 3000 by one single group of people...

That is not what I said.

n plain its ok to wipe out countries to avenge 3000 deaths? that is preety much what your saying... then as i said more native americans have suffered and lost more than those 3000 lives should we wipe out majority of americans due to that!??

It is not even close to what I am saying. Nor have any countries been wiped out. In fact Afghanistan and Iraq are making some progress. It is necessary to pursue terrorists and bring them to justice. If bad people resist this, they need to be opposed.

 

[Rou]

Can't think why not.



What is happening is clearly not justice, but again I come back to your unique concern for people arrested by the US and not for anyone detained for much longer in much worse conditions if they happen to be victims of Muslims. Why is that?



Yes, but why not? You are not outraged about Morocco and Algeria holding each others nationals for 30 years. Why are you so upset about Americans doing it for 3?



That is not what I said.



It is not even close to what I am saying. Nor have any countries been wiped out. In fact Afghanistan and Iraq are making some progress. It is necessary to pursue terrorists and bring them to justice. If bad people resist this, they need to be opposed.

For one where did you get your assumptions that i dont care about anyone who is held or hurt by muslims!?? where is your logic!??? so i did not say that the 3000 in 9/11 were innocents in my eyes who died? or that the aid worker who was found murdered was not an innocent and may he have peace?? like i said you have no logic behind what u say?

Second

We aint talking about algeria or morocco! if it was mentioned perhaps you might here my view on it! instead of making it up for yourself!???

Can you not see how lost you are how seem to want to blame anyone but americans and try and put this whole you stick up for muslims rou on the table just to justfioy to yourslef what YOUR doing??

Im not here to first and foremost say oh you americans this or that im here cos i cant stand innocents suffering for the need of the greedy!! wether those greedy be american! Muslim! or chinese!

Just cos you view the world through A narrow view does not mean all do!