Do people need religion to be good?

  • Thread starter Thread starter renak
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HeiGou said:
Well perhaps. But you would have to believe that everything that this person watching you wanted you to do was a good thing. What if the person watching you wanted you to do bad things? And think, if that person watching you did want you to do bad things, you might be encouraged to do things you normally wouldn't do by threats of, oh I don't know, pits of blazing hot fire. You do not have to drive children towards chocolate with whips after all.

Whereas someone who does not believe there is someone watching them all the time has to approach each and every situation and decide what is right and proper for them to do. Perhaps they will chose the right thing more often than not. Perhaps not. I'd like to think they would.
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^ interesting, but lol if GOD is the one watching you and we believe him to be the most "just" then im sure he wudnt want u to do bad things :p. I also think humans arent good judge of charactes (ehhem bush LOL) so its best to follow a divine judge whos laid out what we must do. There i think its better for a person not to assess the situation wivout a guideline. Sometimes morals and ethics arent enuff :)

:peace:
 
Abd'Majid said:
^ interesting, but lol if GOD is the one watching you and we believe him to be the most "just" then im sure he wudnt want u to do bad things :p. I also think humans arent good judge of charactes (ehhem bush LOL) so its best to follow a divine judge whos laid out what we must do. There i think its better for a person not to assess the situation wivout a guideline. Sometimes morals and ethics arent enuff :)
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Absolutely. But you are just assuming that the Person watching you is the most Just. I am sure that is very comforting because the idea that He might not be would be kind of intolerable. But this solves your problem in religious terms - you have faith that God is Most Just - but not in logic terms. In fact in compounds them because not only does this Person watching you drive you forward to do things you would not otherwise do, but that Person insists that whatever you are told to do is Just. So you do not make any effort to determine the consequences first.

I think it would be better to follow a Divine guideline. If one I believed in was available I would myself. Especially one by a God who was Just, All-Powerful and all those other great things. But still that flaming pit of fire intrigues me. Why does He need it? And of course you have to judge guidelines by their results. Does it seem to you that your guidelines are working for your Umma?

A good rule of thumb, in my experience, is never do to others what you would not like them to do to you and its corollary, never do anything you couldn't explain to your Mother if she saw you doing it on TV. Gets me by.
 
HeiGou said:
Absolutely. But you are just assuming that the Person watching you is the most Just. I am sure that is very comforting because the idea that He might not be would be kind of intolerable. But this solves your problem in religious terms - you have faith that God is Most Just - but not in logic terms. In fact in compounds them because not only does this Person watching you drive you forward to do things you would not otherwise do, but that Person insists that whatever you are told to do is Just. So you do not make any effort to determine the consequences first.

I think it would be better to follow a Divine guideline. If one I believed in was available I would myself. Especially one by a God who was Just, All-Powerful and all those other great things. But still that flaming pit of fire intrigues me. Why does He need it? And of course you have to judge guidelines by their results. Does it seem to you that your guidelines are working for your Umma?

A good rule of thumb, in my experience, is never do to others what you would not like them to do to you and its corollary, never do anything you couldn't explain to your Mother if she saw you doing it on TV. Gets me by.
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LOL ON TV!!! nice one :p
but seriously i cant think of one bad thing islam makes me do... hmm... i've been thinkin bout it. Can you think of one heigou? Dont worry its jus for the sake of argument :)

:peace:
 
Abd'Majid said:
LOL ON TV!!! nice one :p
but seriously i cant think of one bad thing islam makes me do... hmm... i've been thinkin bout it. Can you think of one heigou? Dont worry its jus for the sake of argument :)
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Hmm, in my experience of pious Muslims, well, apart from a little hostility to me, no. It is the less pious ones that are usually the problem. But then we have new problems and they are caused by people who think they are pious and I assume doing what they think God wants. They behead people, even school girls. This is seriously bad.
 
HeiGou said:
Hmm, in my experience of pious Muslims, well, apart from a little hostility to me, no. It is the less pious ones that are usually the problem. But then we have new problems and they are caused by people who think they are pious and I assume doing what they think God wants. They behead people, even school girls. This is seriously bad.
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yes this brings me bak to the beginning, dont you think itthese people would have been good if they followed there religion properly :p lol, these people are obviously misguided by the devil. Personally i dont kno any muslim who will kill some1 wiv islam as an excuse, that is Bid'a (innovation). Its quite disgusting.

:peace:
 
Abd'Majid said:
yes this brings me bak to the beginning, dont you think itthese people would have been good if they followed there religion properly :p lol, these people are obviously misguided by the devil. Personally i dont kno any muslim who will kill some1 wiv islam as an excuse, that is Bid'a (innovation). Its quite disgusting.
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I more or less agree with that, but there is still something funny here. When Christians "fall off the bandwagon" and go wrong, they usually do so over money or women. When Buddhists do so it is usually over women. When Muslims leave their religion, well, who knows? But there is a small number of Muslims, usually young men, who become extremists and go into a very recognisable pattern of Bid'a - they behead people for instance, or they blow themselves and a bunch of innocent people up. Christians-gone-wrong don't do this. Nor do Buddhists who have become too extreme. I have never heard of atheists doing this except perhaps in Sri Lanka. What is it, in your opinion, that makes them fall into this sort of wrongful behaviour?

Of course there is also the huge problem of what "following their religion properly" means given the Muslim world has no Pope and holds not synods. But that is, perhaps, a different argument.
 
^ interesting i think they take a lot of hadith and quranic ayyats out of context heigou. I think they think too much about the destruction all around and build up anger and confusion inside (all dun by the devil). Then they take the quranic ayyat where the muslims where ordered to kill the kuffar IN THE BATTLE OF BADR (or was it uhud) but ONLY DURING THAT TIME as a literral means for today.

its all misconceptions really. Poor confused individuals led by the shaytaan. Its why my mum always tells me to pray that i get saved from such misguidance and innovation, and praise be to Allah i indeed feel that i am! I can never imagine falling into somethin so horrid. And keep in mind many people think ive gone extreme! Why u ask? Becoz i dont listen to music/watch TV/play games. All i wanna do is worship and understand islam better, lol i think a lot of people mistake practising islam for extremists.

:peace: :)
 

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