Islam & The Personal Form of God

[Pankaja dasa]

It still doesn't reference God. If we use the phrase "when the shin shall be laid bare" in its classical arabic connotation that it refers to a time of distress and hardship where people are running in panic. So the verse would mean, "They day if intense distress, they shall be summoned to bow in adoration" - yes, obviously they are bowing to God but that doesn't influence the first part of the statement.

Regards

How will they know whom to Bow to? It says in another Translation, the Prohpets will declare 'it is so'. This is the talking about the Day of Judgement. What will the Prohpets have to go on? To declare it is God?

As I mentioned it's talking about the Day of Judgement. You say when people shall be running in panic. So I think this ties is with your thought about the Day of Judgement. And all Muslims will get a body which is eternal, funny how a normal 'muslim' can acieve an amazing feat. But God cannot poccess a form. But must be very limited in the eyes of Muslims.

 

[Skillganon]

"na tasya pratima asti
(Yajurveda 32:3)

"shudhama poapvidham"
(Yajurveda 40:8)

 

[dincugur]

It is not the shin of Allah, but the shin of every unbelieving person who will be questioned on the Judgement Day. "The shin will be let open" means that everybody whose shin is let open will be under great difficulty.

That is even clearer in the continuation of the passage. The passage most naturally goes on to describe the dire conditions of the unbelievers on the Judgement Day.

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

How will they know whom to Bow to?

That day Allah swt will make Himself known (Qur'an 24:25).

And all Muslims will get a body which is eternal, funny how a normal 'muslim' can acieve an amazing feat. But God cannot poccess a form. But must be very limited in the eyes of Muslims.

Flawed reasoning here. God gives the human beings a form. God is too Great to be likened to any of His creations' form. They are two seperate ideas.

Peace

 

[Pankaja dasa]

That day Allah swt will make Himself known (Qur'an 24:25).

Flawed reasoning here. God gives the human beings a form. God is too Great to be likened to any of His creations' form. They are two seperate ideas.

Peace

No my reasoning is YOU WILL have an eternal form in heaven according to Islam. So why cannot GOD have an ETERNAL form?

 

[Pankaja dasa]

It is not the shin of Allah, but the shin of every unbelieving person who will be questioned on the Judgement Day. "The shin will be let open" means that everybody whose shin is let open will be under great difficulty.

That is even clearer in the continuation of the passage. The passage most naturally goes on to describe the dire conditions of the unbelievers on the Judgement Day.

I'm still not convinced. The culmination of the beliefs of Islam are the finality of the Day of Judgement. This is the final conclusion. How does a Person who has never praised Allah bow in adoration? He will have fear at most. Adoration means somebody who has been a God worshipper all their lives, so this verse is I believe reffering to those people who have worshipped God. So why use the word shin in the context you are saying?

 

[Pankaja dasa]

"na tasya pratima asti
(Yajurveda 32:3)

"shudhama poapvidham"
(Yajurveda 40:8)

I have no clue what they mean, call me a ba 'Hindu':happy:

Please provide the English Translations.!

 

[Nawal89]

Do you people know about the hadeeth..that Allah will come in a form other than his..and he will Say bow to me, and the people will say no, verily you are not as how our lord has described him self..So Allah will expose his shin And they will fall into sujud, and those who were hipocrytes their back will turn as hard as the horn of a cow and they will fall on their faces.
Do any of you know this hadeeth? It is saheeh to the best of my knowledge. If any of you want to i can bring it with the isnad and all.

Alalh says clearly in the Qur'an he has a shin, ,he has eyes, he has hands, and in a hadeeth it came he has a foot. Why do we have to try to change the meaning? This ayah is nothing to be confused of. Take the Qur'an how it is pplz. He says he has these attributes, but he also says that there is nothing like him. Is that so hard to understand?

 

[Skillganon]

na tasya pratima asti
"There is no image of Him."
[Yajurveda 32:3]

"shudhama poapvidham"
"He is bodyless and pure."
[Yajurveda 40:8]

(I am not hindu, if you have slight inclination to think so!)

 

[Pankaja dasa]

na tasya pratima asti
"There is no image of Him."
[Yajurveda 32:3]

"shudhama poapvidham"
"He is bodyless and pure."
[Yajurveda 40:8]

(I am not hindu, if you have slight inclination to think so!)

You know if a Muslim can have an eternal body in heaven, it means God can too. Bodyless means not a body like yours or mine.

 

[Pankaja dasa]

Do you people know about the hadeeth..that Allah will come in a form other than his..and he will Say bow to me, and the people will say no, verily you are not as how our lord has described him self..So Allah will expose his shin And they will fall into sujud, and those who were hipocrytes their back will turn as hard as the horn of a cow and they will fall on their faces.
Do any of you know this hadeeth? It is saheeh to the best of my knowledge. If any of you want to i can bring it with the isnad and all.

Alalh says clearly in the Qur'an he has a shin, ,he has eyes, he has hands, and in a hadeeth it came he has a foot. Why do we have to try to change the meaning? This ayah is nothing to be confused of. Take the Qur'an how it is pplz. He says he has these attributes, but he also says that there is nothing like him. Is that so hard to understand?

I read that on an Islamic site, that is why I came here:happy:

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

So why cannot GOD have an ETERNAL form?

He does. Well, it depends what you mean by 'form', of course. God is nevertheless, an eternal entity beyond the confines of our universe.

Nawal89,
Yes, the hadith you mentioned is in Bukhari and Muslim, hence the interpretation that it is an attribute of God. But like you mentioned, even with such an interpretation we must still state that it means nothing like that which is conceivable to human beings.

 

[Nawal89]

We do not say its like human beings..But Allah already mentioned this sifah. That mean it's there but we do not know how it is. And it is definately not like ours.

 

[Pankaja dasa]

Ya-'ayu-halazina 'amanu man-yar-tada min-kum 'an-dinihi fa-sawfa ya'-tillahu bi-qawmin-yu-hibbu-hum wa yuhib-bunahuu 'azillatin 'alal-mu'minina 'a-'izzatin 'alal-Kafirina yujaa-hiduuna fii Sabiilil-laahi wa laa yakhaa-fuuna law-mata laaa'im / Zaalika Fazlul-laahi yu'-tiihi many-yashaaa' / Wallaahu Waasi-'un 'Alim: "O you who believe! If any from among you turn back from his faith, soon Allah will bring a people whom He will love as they will love Him, - humble toward believers, mighty toward unbelievers, striving in the way of Allah, and never afraid of the blame of any blamer. That is the grace of Allah, which He will bestow on whom He pleases. Allah is All-Embracing, All-Knowing." (5.54)

This verse in refference to the previous verse that was presented. It shows Allah loves His followers. So I am still of the impression that the word 'shin' taken together with the whole context of the verse (compassion) says, God actually has form. A Personal Form. Above posted it says the Prohphets will reveal 'it to be so'.

..So Allah will expose his shin And they will fall into sujud, and those who were hipocrytes their back will turn as hard as the horn of a cow and they will fall on their faces.

In the translation I saw on the site it says the Prohpets will reveal that Allah is who He says He is. In Vedic Dharma, the shin is usually referred to as the feet. Marks on the imprints of the Personal Form of the Lord. (meaning God is Impersonal and Personal)

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

This verse in refference to the previous verse that was presented. It shows Allah loves His followers.

So? What's your point?

So I am still of the impression that the word 'shin' taken together with the whole context of the verse (compassion) says

I can't force you to believe anything but I've clearly explained that the verse itself in no way necessitates such a conclusion.

A Personal Form.

You have ignored the verse of the Qur'an I referenced before (42:11) which states that there is nothing like God. God is like nothing the human mind can conceive. There is no resemblance between the Creator and the creation.

In Vedic Dharma, the shin is usually referred to as the feet. Marks on the imprints of the Personal Form of the Lord. (meaning God is Impersonal and Personal)

For Muslims, the depictions of God by some hindus would be blasphemous as they contradict the Qur'anic statement that there is nothing like God.

Pankaja dasa, I've already explained this multiple times now. If you want to believe in a God that looks like a human being, so be it, but please do not project such views on to the Qur'an when there is clearly no basis for them in Islam.

 

[Skillganon]

You know if a Muslim can have an eternal body in heaven, it means God can too. Bodyless means not a body like yours or mine.

You see you are presupposing that "if we can have than God must have it".

The fact is we dont know, but what we do know theire is nothing like unto God he has no image. Get that in you mind.

I don't know why you are speculating, it's not mentioned in our scriptures. Anyway if you are worried, dont be, you will find out!

 

[vpb]

112.1. Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;

112.2. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;

112.3. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;

112.4. And there is none like unto Him.

nobody knows what is his form, what kind. How he looks,his form... is beyond our imagination. so we wait till the Day of Judgement

 

[Pankaja dasa]

hidden-treasure-of-al-quran.zip (391KB)

Interesting Book. The Question remains for me. It's really unimaginable that God cannot at least take the 'form' of a human being which is Eternal.

 

[Pankaja dasa]

Pankaja dasa, I've already explained this multiple times now. If you want to believe in a God that looks like a human being, so be it, but please do not project such views on to the Qur'an when there is clearly no basis for them in Islam.

How else would God look like? Are Humans beings so bad? How do you love somebody you cannot see, some abtract light? I am not saying at all God looks like us. He must be most beautiful. And Glorious.


hidden-treasure-of-al-quran.zip

 

[Zone Maker]

I believe the ayah as how it is. If Allah says he has a shin then he does. Just like in other ayahs he mentions his hands, eyes, and in another hadeeth he mentions that he will put his foot into hell when hell keeps asking for more people. But even though he says all this, we cannot compare these features to ours, because Allah also says that there is nothing like Him.

This is from what I learned
Allahu A'lam

I don’t know about what you have learned:? . But what I have learned that when Allah said hand it supposed to mean his power and influence, when he said eyes he meant his knowledge and sight, etc. It's like saying to some one give me a hand while what you have meant a help:wasalamex :giggling: . Allah said it this way so that it can suit all times and ages. In other words it has nothing to do with explaining Allah appearance (Allah forgive me). I have also learned that Qur'an should not be allowed to be translated to other languages. For example English is a simple language which cannot handle the Arabic language because it’s a sophisticated language with many rules such as Al-turqem, Naho, etc.

Allahu A3lam
:wasalamex