how christian women view muslim women

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No human being has the authority, it belongs only to God

Actually, "god" requires "men" to speak/interpret for him in every religion. This is what you think you do, right? If "gods" message was clear enough it wouldn't need further explication. And I still have never seen a shred of evidence that "god" has spoken to anyone, besides!
 
Obviously a woman should not be valued only for her outward appearance and for men to judge her by it is something that all women should detest because it reduces them to a material object of no value in and of itself.

Covering up a woman's beauty reduces them to a material object!!!
 
On the subject of women covering themselves in Christianity, here is a picture of some Eastern Orthodox Christian Nuns:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9d/Nuns001.jpg

Modest dress is something common to religious women. When someone sees a Nun dressed in this manner, what message does that send?


It sends the message that they don't want sex now, or anytime in their lifetime.

Hello renak,

No human being can override the rules of God.

However, we all do.
The Islamic ruling on slavery has not changed. But Islamic laws which restricted sources of slavery and encouraged the freeing of slaves brought about the gradual removal of slavery from the world. More info here:
http://www.islamicboard.com/refutations/8369-slave-girls.html

It appears that slavery is no longer accepted because of the society that we now live in. Couldn't this be a valid argument for women refusing to cover themselves?

I was responding to j4763's comment:

Obviously a woman should not be valued only for her outward appearance and for men to judge her by it is something that all women should detest because it reduces them to a material object of no value in and of itself. Material possesions are only useful when they benefit/pleasure others.


A prostitute is only viewed as an object of desire - do you think she has a position of authority and influence on those who use her? Does it make a woman proud to be considered a material possesion whose value is gauged only according to the pleasure she provides others?

A prostitute can be in a position of authority. They are providing a much desired service, and are able to gain financial reward for their services. A smart prostitute is able to recognize that sex is not love. By being able to separate sex from love, they are thinking like a man. Therefore, I wouldn't say that they are necessarily damaged by there occupation.


Regards
:):) :) :)
 
Hello renak,
Feminist opinion is not held in high regard by most women I've known.
Well that's interesting.

Greetings Knut,
Actually, "god" requires "men" to speak/interpret for him in every religion. This is what you think you do, right?
Not at all. No one is allowed to explain Qur'anic verses according to their personal whims - it is done by examining other passages in the Qur'an and the implementation of the passages by the Prophet Muhammad pbuh. I

And I still have never seen a shred of evidence that "god" has spoken to anyone, besides!
Well you're looking in the wrong thread. That discussion belongs here:
http://www.islamicboard.com/comparative-religion/13998-prove-quran-word-god.html

Covering up a woman's beauty reduces them to a material object!!!
How? What message do you get when you see a Nun like those in the image posted earlier?

Regards
 
It send the message that they don't want sex now, or anytime in their lifetime.
And what else does that mean?

However, we all do
There is a difference between overriding and disobedience. The former is disbelief in God while the latter is simply sin.

It appears that slavery is no longer accepted because of the society that we now live in.
No, slavery would actually be impossible according to Islamic law in the society we now live in, because no free person can be enslaved outside of military conflict where there are war captives,
Couldn't this be a valid argument for women refusing to cover themselves?
No because God commands men and women to dress in the modest manner outlined in the Qur'an and the Sunnah whereas there is no command to take slaves.
A prostitute can be in a position of authority.
Really?! I think that is a very sad statement. The plight of women who are forced to sell their bodies to strangers in the street is worsened when it is not recognized by others. The poverty of these women allows others to take advantage of them and abuse them. Do you think these women have any influence on society when they cannot even influence who gets to use their body next? If you really thik that prostitution is a position of power and authority, then why do the vast majority of women find the idea of selling their body for money to be degrading and despicable?

Peace.
 
And what else does that mean?
It means that she is a woman who has been instructed to cover her body. Of course this regulation was created by males.


There is a difference between overriding and disobedience. The former is disbelief in God while the latter is simply sin.
In all due respect, this sounds like a cop out to me.

No, slavery would actually be impossible according to Islamic law in the society we now live in, because no free person can be enslaved outside of military conflict where there are war captives,

Are you admitting that Islamic law has changed to appease other societies?

No because God commands men and women to dress in the modest manner outlined in the Qur'an and the Sunnah whereas there is no command to take slaves.

Is this not a matter of interpretation? There are many muslims who feel that God did not command men and women to dress in a modest manner. Many seem to be on this forum.



Really?! I think that is a very sad statement. The plight of women who are forced to sell their bodies to strangers in the street is worsened when it is not recognized by others. The poverty of these women allows others to take advantage of them and abuse them. Do you think these women have any influence on society when they cannot even influence who gets to use their body next? If you really thik that prostitution is a position of power and authority, then why do the vast majority of women find the idea of selling their body for money to be degrading and despicable?

If a woman is forced to sell her body she would not be in a position of power and authority. However, many prostitutes operate by choice.

Peace.
:) :)
 
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I just viewed the thread pertaining to "Would you marry a disabled person?" Only 33% said they would in fact marry a disabled person. I believe this emphasizes the importance that physical beauty plays when people select a marriage partner.

For those of you who implied on this thread that women should not be viewed as sexual objects, I wonder if you agree that a disability should not be a determining factor in the self-worth of a human? Perhaps those who have contributed to this thread did not vote on the poll related to a disabled person, or you in fact voted YES.

Nonetheless, I think it is naive to suggest that beauty is not appreciated in all societies.
 
It means that she is a woman who has been instructed to cover her body. Of course this regulation was created by males.
Oh really? Any evidence to back up your claim or is this more personal conjecture? What do men get from women who cover themselves and abstain from sex?

In all due respect, this sounds like a cop out to me.
It's not a cop-out if I answered your objection. If you didn't understand the distinction I made then just say so and I will be more than happy to explain it to you. Creating rules to supersede or override God's rules is disbelief. Disobeying His rules and falling prey to temptation, is simply a sin. There is a difference between sin (Fisq) and disbelief (kufr).

Are you admitting that Islamic law has changed to appease other societies?
No, I just told you that Islamic law and the Islamic ruling on slaves has NOT changed.

Is this not a matter of interpretation?
It's a matter of ignorance, actually. All the Muslim scholars for over a millenia have agreed that based on the explicit commands in the Qur'an and the Sunnah, the dress code is mandatory.

If a woman is forced to sell her body she would not be in a position of power and authority. However, many prostitutes operate by choice.
Actually, according to Amnesty International, because coercion can sometimes be subtle and not manifest, it is actually something practical to determine. But at any rate, like I said, a prostitute has no influence on society when she cannot even influence who gets to use her body next.

Peace.
 
I'm uncovered. I'm happy. I just spent another wonderful afternoon in the gardens, sunbathing in my swimming costume. A number of Muslim women in abayas wandered by. They don't tell me how to dress, and I don't tell them how to dress. I don't assume what their lives are life, and they do likewise.

Don't patronise me. Don't tell me I'm a "slave" to anything. Don't tell me how I view myself and others.

This thread is yet another unfortunate example of rampant generalization.
 
If I really love my wife..which I will Inshallah(cos im not married yet)..i would'nt want a single strange man to even look at my wife's beautiful face(forget about anyone daring to look at her in a sexual way). that is very impolite and immoral according to our standards.
Her beauty is not on display for unknown men or strangers to be looking at.
this is called real love. and trust me women who know the beauty of Niqab....they love it. it is something full of wisdom. orders of sharia are so beautiful..really it touches our hearts..and Allah, Subhanahu wa' Ta'ala tells us in the Qur'an about the nature of human beings. the rules of sharia are completely compatible with the nature of humans. whoever denies this is simply denying the reality.

If you have such strict requirements for your futurew ife and her "beauty," how come you're not dressing in niqaab yourself? Or aren't you worried about other women checking you out? What a double standard.
 
Oh really? Any evidence to back up your claim or is this more personal conjecture? What do men get from women who cover themselves and abstain from sex?

Being that the nuns habit is not bibically based, I would say that it is a very good assumption that it was man made.

Perhaps men created the nuns habit simply for distinction. Do an internet search and you will find many opinions, but no true answer.


It's not a cop-out if I answered your objection. If you didn't understand the distinction I made then just say so and I will be more than happy to explain it to you. Creating rules to supersede or override God's rules is disbelief. Disobeying His rules and falling prey to temptation, is simply a sin. There is a difference between sin (Fisq) and disbelief (kufr).
Sure. Explain in more detail please.

No, I just told you that Islamic law and the Islamic ruling on slaves has NOT changed.
Have you told me that they have not changed? The fact that slavery no longer exists, but would be acceptable in the eyes of God if it did exist, makes me think that any ancient religious practice is open to become extinct in todays society.You said:

"No, slavery would actually be impossible according to Islamic law in the society we now live in, because no free person can be enslaved outside of military conflict where there are war captives" This is a source of confusion for me. Are you saying that slavery does or does not exist in Islamic Law?



It's a matter of ignorance, actually. All the Muslim scholars for over a millenia have agreed that based on the explicit commands in the Qur'an and the Sunnah, the dress code is mandatory.

Not all muslims on this site practice modest dress. I've known very few muslims, out of very many, who practice modest dress. Are you saying that these individuals are wrong? If only those muslims who practice modest dress are true muslims, I would venture to say that this world has far fewer muslims than it likes others to believe. Are you sure that, "All the Muslim scholars for over a millenia have agreed that based on the explicit commands in the Qur'an and the Sunnah, the dress code is mandatory." It is my understanding that there is a lot of debate about this.

Actually, according to Amnesty International, because coercion can sometimes be subtle and not manifest, it is actually something practical to determine. But at any rate, like I said, a prostitute has no influence on society when she cannot even influence who gets to use her body next.

When a woman is forced into prostitution, it is no doubt horrific. However, you are neglecting to take into account the prostitutes who make the decision to enter into the profession, and control all aspects of their lives. In the USA they are quite numerous.
Peace.
:) :)
 
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i guess one day they will put "prostitution" as a official occupation lol...
world is going crazy.

Peace
 
i guess one day they will put "prostitution" as a official occupation lol...
world is going crazy.

Peace
Sure why not.:giggling: Look in phone books in the USA, and it is listed as Escort Services. It isn't all that uncommon for college girls to become escorts (prostitutes). :) There are also a lot of "truck stop" prostitutes. Research has shown that truck stop prostitutes find the greatest reward from their profession than all other types of prostitutes.
 
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Sure why not.:giggling: Look in phone books in the USA, and it is listed as Escort Services. It isn't all that uncommon for college girls to become escorts (prostitutes). :)

thats not funny at all. its a shame that its happening in many places around the world. this is really what is called women trafficing and using them as mere sex objects. is this what the western morality has come down to? uncivilized barbarians!
 
thats not funny at all. its a shame that its happening in many places around the world. this is really what is called women trafficing and using them as mere sex objects. is this what the western morality has come down to? uncivilized barbarians!

No it is NOT women trafficking. These women renak refers to do it willingly, of their own volition, and are paid fairly. Women trafficking involves cross border smuggling of women who then are blackmailed, at best, by the leverage their smuggler has over them by holding their passport or money. Duh.

Are you offended that prostitution has a longer history than islam? Why, if you live in the west, would you want to be here? And by the way, many here call you a repressed *%^%^$^#$%. "Uncivilized"? The muslim world uses all of the west's technology, medicine, science. Get a general clue about we who you hate.
 
thats not funny at all. its a shame that its happening in many places around the world. this is really what is called women trafficing and using them as mere sex objects. is this what the western morality has come down to? uncivilized barbarians!
No this is not human trafficking. This is normal, free thinking women who choose to enter into prostitution. If you want to start a thread on prostitution, go ahead. I think we're getting off topic.
 
By the way, it is true that we use your technology.
The Christians in my home country used the same technology for ethnical cleansing when they threw us out of our homes for being Muslims.
I should be more grateful. The people in Chechnya to, where your technology is being used for experiments on the Chechen population.
All of the Muslims, in fact, should be more grateful. Why are there some that aren't? Beats me.
 
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originally posted by Renak=I don't think people can control their sexual desires. I do believe people can, and have the responsibility to control how they choose to act upon these desires.

Agreed. But the fact is many women do dress to win appreciation of the opposite sex and therefore send off vibes that they have something to offer. Just as an open window is an invitation to burglars. Likewise when women expose their bodies, men will think they are easy bait. So if women don't want that kind of attention, they have to take some responsility i.e. cover up.
Well, you seem a bit insulting, but that's okay. I don't care if a man wants to view me as a sexual object. If they are ignorant enough to think that I will allow them to treat me like a whore, well, they are mistaken. I must admit that it is fun to toy with these disrespectful idiots (christian and muslim). I like to reject them and make them feel like the pond scum.
I'm really sorry. I did not intend to insult you but was merely saying that this is what happens. Men will think like that whether women like it or not. Just as drivers use the high-way code and the pedestrians the green-cross code, responsilibity should be two-sided. It isnt fair to think a person can do anything and not get a reaction from it.
the most sexually aggressive and disrespectful men are those who are active in their church/mosque. They complain that their wife is too conservative, doesn't take pride in her appearance, etc... This of course is insulting to their wife, and me of course. I of course do not date these men, but they are out there in great abundance.
Well they are wrong. But their complaining about conservative wives just shows that they will look and feel attracted to the more liberal minded women. That is why I'm saying women have to guard themselves if they don't like men behaving badly. But I don't think church/mosque goers are worst than those who don't. It just seems-and is worse because we don't expect that kind of behavior from them.
 

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