Kill The Infidels? (Surah 9:5)

[Malsidabym]

Re: kill the infidels sura 9:5

yea maaannn! kuffar! lets chop their heads off!

p.s - only when the rules of Jihad apply

A person would not last long talking like this where I live.

 

[HeiGou]

Re: kill the infidels sura 9:5

now people are you lot cleared or what?

I think so. I know there are people here who would enjoy cutting off my head and are waiting for the right moment to do so. I guess I knew that already. Kind of a shame no one else thinks that is a bad thing.

are you kind of finished?

I think so. Not a lot else to say really.

 

[moujahid]

Re: kill the infidels sura 9:5

And no one belongs anywhere in between? Like I said, if a Brother enjoys something he will usually find a way to do it.

I understand that there are shades of gray, but Basic understandings are for sure different.

As these people do not exist except in a fringes of the internet, this does not bring me much comfort.

Obviously you would never agree on something like that. The imperialists, the freemsaons, the communists, the "enlightened" secular humanists, the jews and so on ..all these people share the same view point toward the Believers. They are all united against the Muslims.

Chopping someone's head off is a deliberate, pre-meditated act of murder. The US does not do that. Some innocent people have died by accident in the course of normal and acceptable military operations.
QUOTE]

and dropping bombs on innocent people is not pre-meditated? it happens so that they like to bomb a small group of people..so they destroy a whole city for that. and how many Mujahideen did they manage to kill? They are still out there and even more now.

Again if you cannot see that, if your moral values are so beyomd mine, I take no comfort from your promises of protecting the innocent.

im not very surprised to hear from you that from you

What makes you think that jihad is only in self-defence? What is more important, how do you define that? Can we agree there has never ever been a single case where a Muslim country had attacked non-Muslims that Muslim scholars and the general Muslim population have not supported? That is, either no Muslim has ever waged an aggressive war or they all were able to find some pretext for the aggression.

Jihad has its own rules and regulations. There is nothing such as "holy war" in Islam. Peace is more important to us than anything else. To establish peace, evil forces needs to be wiped out. Give me one example of Muslims attacking Non-Muslim nations where they had support from the Scholars or from the people. NOT EVEN A SINGLE. there is no need for Muslims to attack other people. It is not allowed in Sharia. Im sorry if people do it, thats definitely their problem. Muslims have ALWAYS been on the defence. ALWAYS.

And on what basis are you judging them? By the standards of the Arab countries perhaps? By the standards of any Muslim country in existence today? The Americans sent people to jail for that. It was a crime. When was the last time a Muslim government sent one of their own to jail for abuses of Muslim inmates?
And of course the inmates of AG are not prisoners of war.

On the basis of basic human morals. None of the Arab countries follow full Islamic Sharia. Name me one Muslim country that follows Sharia. If there was one, they would definitely punish people who abuse power. There is not much difference between the prisoners of war and the inmates of AG prison.

Like Nick Berg? Was he still fighting? How do you cut someone's head off on the battlefield these days? Explain a logical and coherent series of events to me that would lead you to be in a position to cut off, say, a airforce pilot's head?

Give me one reliable authentic Islamic Sharia board that would approve of something like that...none. The stories that you here from CNN or Fox cannot be trusted. they are criminals also who instigate this hatred.
kill an Airforce pilot? why not? he is a war criminal killing innocent people.

Really? What makes you think it is a lie? Can we agree that Muslim borders only expanded at the expense of the Christians until, Oh I don't know, some time in the 12th century in Spain, some time in the 18th century in Eastern Europe? So that's 600 years of expanding at the expense of Western Europe and 1200 years of expanding at the expense of Eastern Europe. And you claim this is all entirely defensive?

People accepted Islam by choice not by force. Incase if you didnt know. Does expanding always has to be by force? what makes you think like that. People all over the world today are accepting Islam by force? Islam spread by sword? huh?

Find me any non-Muslim population who shares a border with a Muslim population and I'll find you a population that hates Muslims and does not think they are a benign force. The only people who think that are those that live far far away from Muslims and do not deal with them (England until about 40 years ago for instance). India? China? Greece? Southern Nigeria? Russia?

Most of the Muslims in India, China, Africa, Russia accepted Islam , not because they were forced to. When Islam came to them, the kuffar attacked FIRST and then obviously the Believers had to attack to shut them up. Prove that im not right.

Again that interesting word "innocent". Can we agree that chopping off the heads of guilty people is part of Sharia and it is not up to the guilty people to determine if they are guilty or not, and in fact they do not share any common moral values that would mean that Muslims and non-Muslims could ever agree on who was guilty or not?

So according to your morals people attacking the Muslim civilians fall under the category of "innocent" ?

 

[HeiGou]

Re: kill the infidels sura 9:5

know there are people here who would enjoy cutting off my head and are waiting for the right moment to do so.

And why would someone want to do that.

I don't know. You tell me. He seemed to be looking forward to it. He said he would love to do it. It's your religion, not mine. Why do you think?

 

[HeiGou]

Re: kill the infidels sura 9:5

I fink it iz. But its ok when certain rules apply in Islam. U gets me? Gtta stick wid my religion lykkk

I understand. In the right circumstances you would cut my head off too. As I said, kind of sad, but nothing, I guess, I did not know.

 

[Ghazi]

Re: kill the infidels sura 9:5

I don't know. You tell me. He seemed to be looking forward to it. He said he would love to do it. It's your religion, not mine. Why do you think?

Salaam

I doubt he was refering to you personally, I think he was refering to a battle situation.

 

[moujahid]

Re: kill the infidels sura 9:5

A person would not last long talking like this where I live.

Why not? What about freedom of expression and thoughts? You live in a very intolerant and backward culture my friend. People who can't tolerate defence and peace should be put to death.

 

[moujahid]

Re: kill the infidels sura 9:5

I don't know. You tell me. He seemed to be looking forward to it. He said he would love to do it. It's your religion, not mine. Why do you think?

If you belong to the army of kuffar where you will be killing innocent Muslims.. I will, by the help of Allah, come to you and chop your head off. man this is only the hundredth time ive repeated this statement. i hope you get it through your head this time.

 

[HeiGou]

Re: kill the infidels sura 9:5

As these people do not exist except in a fringes of the internet, this does not bring me much comfort.

Obviously you would never agree on something like that. The imperialists, the freemsaons, the communists, the "enlightened" secular humanists, the jews and so on ..all these people share the same view point toward the Believers. They are all united against the Muslims.

Indeed and perhaps you see my problem. I do not think there is a vast secret international conspiracy of Imperialists, Freemasons, Communists, Secular humanists, and the Jews out to get Islam. And of course I know there is precisely no evidence of it. So from my perspective, you, based on a lie and a myth, would murder millions of people because you, without any evidence at all, think they are waging war on Islam.

As I said, this does not bring me much comfort.

Chopping someone's head off is a deliberate, pre-meditated act of murder. The US does not do that. Some innocent people have died by accident in the course of normal and acceptable military operations.

and dropping bombs on innocent people is not pre-meditated? it happens so that they like to bomb a small group of people..so they destroy a whole city for that. and how many Mujahideen did they manage to kill? They are still out there and even more now.

It is not what they do, it is what the intended to do. So if they saw a group of people and their intelligence told them it was a group of terrorists, and they blew them up only to discover later that the people they killed were innocent civilians, no crime has been committed. And such a response would have to be proportional to the end they wish to achieve and so obviously destroying an entire city does not come under that rule. So they do not do that and if they did it would be a crime.

I doubt there are even more now or Osama Bin Laden wouldn't be begging for a truce.

What makes you think that jihad is only in self-defence? What is more important, how do you define that? Can we agree there has never ever been a single case where a Muslim country had attacked non-Muslims that Muslim scholars and the general Muslim population have not supported? That is, either no Muslim has ever waged an aggressive war or they all were able to find some pretext for the aggression.

Jihad has its own rules and regulations. There is nothing such as "holy war" in Islam. Peace is more important to us than anything else. To establish peace, evil forces needs to be wiped out.

Well clearly there is holy war in Islam - it is a subset of Jihad. To establish peace you need to establish justice, not just kill people until they shut up.

Give me one example of Muslims attacking Non-Muslim nations where they had support from the Scholars or from the people. NOT EVEN A SINGLE. there is no need for Muslims to attack other people. It is not allowed in Sharia. Im sorry if people do it, thats definitely their problem. Muslims have ALWAYS been on the defence. ALWAYS.

And so when Tariq crossed the Straits of Gibralter to attack Spain, the cause was what exactly? When did Spain attack the Muslims? When Muhammed sent his army to Tabuk to fight the Romans, what provocation had been given? Ansar Al-Adl makes a claim about the Ghassanids but they ceased to be Rome's ally before Muhammed was Called. So what did the Romans do?

And on what basis are you judging them? By the standards of the Arab countries perhaps? By the standards of any Muslim country in existence today? The Americans sent people to jail for that. It was a crime. When was the last time a Muslim government sent one of their own to jail for abuses of Muslim inmates?
And of course the inmates of AG are not prisoners of war.

On the basis of basic human morals. None of the Arab countries follow full Islamic Sharia. Name me one Muslim country that follows Sharia. If there was one, they would definitely punish people who abuse power. There is not much difference between the prisoners of war and the inmates of AG prison.

When did anyone punish anyone in the Islamic world for abusing prisoners? There is a definite legal difference and it is obviously important or they would not be in AG. So you are holding the Americans up to a standard that even the Arabs, who have the benefit of being Muslim and being able to read the Quran in the original, cannot meet? This does not strike me as fair.

Like Nick Berg? Was he still fighting? How do you cut someone's head off on the battlefield these days? Explain a logical and coherent series of events to me that would lead you to be in a position to cut off, say, a airforce pilot's head?

Give me one reliable authentic Islamic Sharia board that would approve of something like that...none. The stories that you here from CNN or Fox cannot be trusted. they are criminals also who instigate this hatred.
kill an Airforce pilot? why not? he is a war criminal killing innocent people.

Not why, how. How do you get to cut off a pilot's head in this day of AA missiles and AK-47s?

I am not interested in searching for what you consider reliable and authenic sources. The mujihadeen found one or they would not have done it.

Really? What makes you think it is a lie? Can we agree that Muslim borders only expanded at the expense of the Christians until, Oh I don't know, some time in the 12th century in Spain, some time in the 18th century in Eastern Europe? So that's 600 years of expanding at the expense of Western Europe and 1200 years of expanding at the expense of Eastern Europe. And you claim this is all entirely defensive?

People accepted Islam by choice not by force. Incase if you didnt know. Does expanding always has to be by force? what makes you think like that. People all over the world today are accepting Islam by force? Islam spread by sword? huh?

To change the subject is not fair. I did not say a word about why people became Muslims. I ask about the expansion of the Muslim world. And in this case, expanding was always by force. I might argue about Malaysia and Bengal, but not about Europe. What people are doing today is irrelevant.

Would you care to answer the question?

Find me any non-Muslim population who shares a border with a Muslim population and I'll find you a population that hates Muslims and does not think they are a benign force. The only people who think that are those that live far far away from Muslims and do not deal with them (England until about 40 years ago for instance). India? China? Greece? Southern Nigeria? Russia?

Most of the Muslims in India, China, Africa, Russia accepted Islam , not because they were forced to. When Islam came to them, the kuffar attacked FIRST and then obviously the Believers had to attack to shut them up. Prove that im not right.

Again I did not mention converts. I did not mention Muslims in India, China or wherever. I said that people with firsthand knowledge of Muslims tend not to like them contrary to your claims. Are you denying that?

What was the provocation that led Muslims to attack China? What was the provocation that led the Muslims in China to rise in rebellion?

Again that interesting word "innocent". Can we agree that chopping off the heads of guilty people is part of Sharia and it is not up to the guilty people to determine if they are guilty or not, and in fact they do not share any common moral values that would mean that Muslims and non-Muslims could ever agree on who was guilty or not?

So according to your morals people attacking the Muslim civilians fall under the category of "innocent" ?

Dodging the question again. And again it is a matter of intention. If they did not know, if they did not mean to, if they took every opportunity to avoid it and it happened accidentally, then yes they are innocent. Islam has a similar rule. Why do you think they are not?

 

[HeiGou]

Re: kill the infidels sura 9:5

bro listen the other peeps are right you are just stepping out of line cause are you trying to say izlam is a religion where they cut peoples head off!

No one has suggested I am wrong for saying in Islam in the right circumstances people get their head's cut off. No one. Several people, or at least one, has said he would enjoy doing it. Why do you think that no one ever gets their head cut off in Islam?

Besides, what I have said is that head chopping seems to be part of Muslim culture. That is a different claim.

well bro your wrong k!

ffended: ffended: ffended: ffended: ffended:

Why do you think I am wrong? Islam-Truth, the Other Brother and Ms Pagal have been all over me for what I have said, where has one of them said that Islam does not allow people's heads to be cut off? We are just arguing about the right circumstances.

 

[HeiGou]

Re: kill the infidels sura 9:5

I doubt he was refering to you personally, I think he was refering to a battle situation.

Really? "yea maaannn! kuffar! lets chop their heads off!" Notice the plural. Twice. I am a kafir. He did not say "lets chop their heads off except for HeiGou" did he?

 

[Malsidabym]

Re: kill the infidels sura 9:5

Why not? What about freedom of expression and thoughts? You live in a very intolerant and backward culture my friend. People who can't tolerate defence and peace should be put to death.

Ha! :giggling: :lol: This is funny in so many ways.
Freedom of expression? A person enters the "hood" and proceeds to call for the cutting off of the heads of the others in the hood. That is funny. Freedom, LOL!
Intolerant and backward!! :giggling: :giggling: even funnier! "We want to cut your head off, but you are backward and intolerant. :lol:

People who can't tolerate defence and peace should be put to death.

This is the funniest! You spew out a bunch of crap about tolerance, and then say people that disagree with cutting heads off should be put to death, a little intolerant don't you think?
Anyway, like I said, that kind of talk would be a real problem for someone around here. Would never get the chance to happen. Hate groups are definitely "discouraged" ;D .

 

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

Re: kill the infidels sura 9:5



Thread Re-Opened. Stay on topic. Had to delete 44 posts. Now time to give out warns.

 

[mahdisoldier19]

Re: kill the infidels sura 9:5

Then why don't you say something about killing people who are attacking Islam and not a generic term like kafir? Osama Bin Laden attacked America. You think it would be a sensible response to go out and behead some Muslims? You are blurring the line between "jihad" and "attacking Muslims" on the one hand, and "kafir" and "aggressors against Muslims" on the other. On top of which civilised people have ruled about prisoners of war. Even if people do attack you, you do not cut their heads off. You take them prisoner and treat them well.

As for the claim that if I am "innocent" you are not allowed to harm me - pardon me if I refuse to accept that. Your Brother used a generic term like "kafir", not a specific term relating to guilt. He did not express a desire to do it as a religious obligation but as a pleasure so it is reasonable to assume if he can find a way to enjoy his pleasure he will. That innocent is clearly being determined by you and not by me or by any standard we both could accept. And the entire history of Muslim aggression against the West shows that innocent people are murdered, kidnapped and sold into slavery. What has changed now?

Your claim has been refuted tens of times over and over again so take it easy on who or what you know.

 

[czgibson]

Re: kill the infidels sura 9:5

Greetings,

Why not? What about freedom of expression and thoughts? You live in a very intolerant and backward culture my friend. People who can't tolerate defence and peace should be put to death.

This is the most breathtakingly preposterous post I've ever seen on the forum. Please think before you click on 'Submit Reply'!

Peace

 

[HeiGou]

Re: kill the infidels sura 9:5

Your claim has been refuted tens of times over and over again so take it easy on who or what you know.

Well perhaps you could be generous and refute it once more?

 

[Malsidabym]

This thread has been a "we hate kafirs and want to cut their heads off" thread. Can we get to the discussion now about sura 9:5?

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

This issue has already been answered here:
http://www.load-islam.com/C/rebuttals/Misquoted/#9


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