Who Say Yeshua (jesus) Is The Son Of God

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Ninth_Scribe said:
It is a metaphorical title. When a 'Son of Man' attains the age of 40, he is deemed to have acquired sufficient wisdom to be considered a 'Son of God' and can be held accountable for his actions from that time on (cannot plead ignorance). It describes a level of spiritual development, that's all. I have no idea how this term became misunderstood, but it was never intended to suggest a sole heir of God and I for one would LOVE to know who it was that told Mohammed (PBUH) that it did. I would also like to know why Kaab Al Ahbar didn't bother to explain this title to the Muslim people during his stay, seeing as he thought he as such an authority of the Judean records. Isn't bearing false witness... a crime?

Ninth Scribe
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Thanks for the explanation. It makes sense if it's a metaphor. It also struck me as almost Eastern in its thought - the attainment of a spiritual ideal particularly reminded me of Buddhist beliefs.

Though, spiritual attainment is what all religions promise :)

Anyway, I'm straying from the topic.

On-topic: I do not believe that Jesus was the son of God as Christians do. But that is their belief and they are free to hold it.
 
nurofislam said:
its so obvious that this is making u angry. can it be because you're afraid that you've wasted ur time following the wrong religion?? :?
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What makes me angry is having to watch people fight over silly things like this topic. I do get 'sad' at times but not because I followed the 'wrong' religion. I was never allowed to have a religion. And don't get so defensive with me about Islam. No one on this planet is perfect, Muslim or otherwise, nor are they expected to be.

I do miss the idea of worshipping at a house of God, but they border on idolatry when people start fighting over them... so I'm out in the cold, on my own... I guess. I'm lonely, that's all.

Ninth Scribe
 
Muezzin said:
On-topic: I do not believe that Jesus was the son of God as Christians do. But that is their belief and they are free to hold it.
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It's important to remember that Jesus didn't see himself as this either. He knew what the title meant (ben Elohim, Imam, Rabbi... there are lots of titles to pick from).

The one you're looking for, who screwed up the records, was that creep, Constantine. He 'merged' the records of Jesus, with the Persian Sun God, Mithras in order to celebrate the birth of Jesus in a more fitting manner. Before he did that, they had no way to celebrate his birth because the ancient Judeans didn't keep birth and death records. No one knew when he was born, so Constantine gave him the attributes of Sol Invictus (the Romanized version of Mithras). I have all these records by the way. I've been keeping track of who did what, where, when... and why.

Ninth Scribe
 
I didn't know that. This thread is proving very educational.

Up until this point, I thought Constantine was this guy:

200528_155559_1_012.jpg


I'm serious though, I am constantly learning more here.
 
the whole universe is so complicated even our fingerprints in that no 2 r the same so if god was human how could he be the creator? he couldnt so god must be superior
 
Muezzin said:
I didn't know that. This thread is proving very educational.
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Yes, well it's a lot of history to get through, and it's not easy to access all the records, but I brought someone here who knows what to look for.

Constantine used to worship Sol Invictus, before he converted (on his death-bed) to Christianity.

http://www.themystica.com/mystica/articles/c/christ_constantine_sol_invictus.html

That's how these records got merged. I happened on this by pure accident, while trying to investigate a complaint brought to me by the Pagans who accused the Christians of stealing their holy grounds. However, according to Vatican records, the Temple of their 'Sun God' was owned by Constantine, and it's conversion to a Christian Temple was lawful. It wasn't stolen.

I do have lots of problems with Christianity... can't go to their churches because I refuse to repeat that lie they call the Nicene Creed... and because their leaders won't come forward and acknowledge certain things, but can't discuss that here.

Ninth Scribe
 
Ninth_Scribe said:
Yes, well it's a lot of history to get through, and it's not easy to access all the records, but I brought someone here who knows what to look for.

Constantine used to worship Sol Invictus, before he converted (on his death-bed) to Christianity.

http://www.themystica.com/mystica/articles/c/christ_constantine_sol_invictus.html

That's how these records got merged. I happened on this by pure accident, while trying to investigate a complaint brought to me by the Pagans who accused the Christians of stealing their holy grounds. However, according to Vatican records, the Temple of their 'Sun God' was owned by Constantine, and it's conversion to a Christian Temple was lawful. It wasn't stolen.

I do have lots of problems with Christianity... can't go to their churches because I refuse to repeat that lie they call the Nicene Creed... and because their leaders won't come forward and acknowledge certain things, but can't discuss that here.

Ninth Scribe
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Isn't 'saint' paul also responsible for a lot of the theological ideas of the nicene creed?
 
mirage41 said:
Isn't 'saint' paul also responsible for a lot of the theological ideas of the nicene creed?
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The Nicene Creed is a 'Christianized' version of the Persian records of Mithras, who:

Was born on December 25th.
Of a virgin.
Birth was witnessed by the Magi.
Mithras had formed his influence around 12 disciples.
Was called Savior of the World, Lord of Light.
Returned to heaven at the Spring Equinox (days from Easter).
Before returning had a Last Supper with his 12 Disciples.
Th meal consisted of Midz (a special bread marked with a cross)

I hate plagiarism... and worse... I hate wars that were caused by plagiarism. What has been done here by those people is just plain wrong.

Ninth Scribe
 
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Muslimah 4eva said:
the whole universe is so complicated even our fingerprints in that no 2 r the same so if god was human how could he be the creator? he couldnt so god must be superior
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You would be surprized to find how inter-connected it all is. I do understand life. I just have problems dealing with it. This daily ritual of shoving dead things down my throat, only to excrete them later... strikes me as very demonic. Five year olds seem to deal with this reality, but I still have a hard time with these basics. Biology is very nasty.

Ninth Scribe
 
Ninth_Scribe, I don't doubt there is atleast a garin of truth to what you have posted, I will continue to study the link you provided.

If the Gosphel was a result of what you have said, there sure is alot of Old testament scripture that address' Jesus and when he was to arrive and what he was to do and what was going to happen to him.........ect

Is all of that linked to the same source you credited the New Testament to as well?

Thanks
Nimrod
 
Abu Zakariya said:
How was it before God decided to have a son?
Was it a two-unity with God and the Holy Spirit?
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God is one, Therefore God is The Holy Spirit, the bible Declares "God is Spirit and it is Necessary that those who seek him, do so in the Spirit"

So there aren't 3 gods but one God, It is not God the Father God The Son And God the Holy Spirit as catholics say.
It is God Father Son And Holy Spirit, One entity doing 3 Jobs or roles.

Like you can Be a father to your son at the same time you are a son to your father and a grandfather to tour son's son, you are also a lawyer or whatever and you are a husband, are you different persons, not !
Neither is God diferent persons.
Do we believe God to be all powerfull and he does not need man to set boundaries to his power and purpose to save man ?

Or is God subject to man's thoughts ? or are we the ones subjects to God ?
 
Muezzin said:
So, are these priests supposed to be the literal or metaphorical sons of God?
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The only men Called Sons of God in the literal sense were Adam And Yeshuah, Both were created by God himself, Yeshua is called the second Adam Literally a new creation of the spiritual man.
Yeshua was formed in Mary's womb by the power of the Spirit of God which is God Himself, therefore the Body the human Flesh Body of Yeshua is the SON of God, these things are not understood unless the holy Spirit of God is within you.
The Bible says the things of God seem as crazyness to the natural man.
The Natural man are those who think in the natural without faith, that God is greater than man.
The Natural man thinks God is only capable of doing what their own limits as a man gives them.

Didn't Muhammed say, God is much greater than Man ?

So are we to say God cannot do this ?
 
nimrod said:
If the Gospel was a result of what you have said, there sure is alot of Old testament scripture that address' Jesus and when he was to arrive and what he was to do and what was going to happen to him.........Thanks
Nimrod
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No problem. It all began as a Book of Generations... but... it took on more importance, expressed more intimacy concerning the personal journey of the souls of those generations. Journalism.

There are "quirks" that occur here and there in the records. I'm not hostile to them, but... smirks... C'mon! One such "quirk" is what I politely call, a creative blending of Zoroastrianism and Gnostic Mystery. Think of them as robes that were given to a beloved spiritual teacher named, Jesus (Isa). Ezra suffered a similar fate. It's... weird? Stunned... but whatever. The sons of Abraham are a colorful bunch.

Resources that directly connect Mithras with early Christian groups:

http://www.well.com/~davidu/mithras.html

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/product-description/1594770271/103-2474380-0820649

Ninth Scribe
 
Ninth_Scribe said:
Excuse me?

Deuteronomy 14:1 - "You are the sons of God..."

I'll make this very easy for you... follow me:

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0514.htm

Read, and then picture for a moment just who they are talking about...

Ninth Scribe
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There is a difference between, The Sons of God, {Ha Ben Elohim}
And The sons of god (ha benahim elohim} The First term is Used For Adam and Yeshua the second term in low case letter is all mankind which is what is used in deut 14:1.
Todah Rabah Salam/Shalom

Alphaseed ha-Kafir.
 
God exists through men, so he is man? i dont get what this mean?

God was there before everything was created by him. And he can easly distroy everything. God is all knowing and all powerful, he is the only true been and he created everything out of nothingness. How can jesus be the SON OF GOD if he was created out of nothingness.
 
Alphaseed said:
There is a difference between, The Sons of God, {Ha Ben Elohim}
And The sons of god (ha benahim elohim} The First term is Used For Adam and Yeshua the second term in low case letter is all mankind which is what is used in deut 14:1.
Todah Rabah Salam/Shalom

Alphaseed ha-Kafir.
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That's just GRAMMAR! We use singular and plural forms in English too, you know.

Ninth Scribe
 

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