Non-sectarian Islam?

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gord

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Hello all.

As a new Muslim I have explored all aspects of Islam I have been able to find. That includes both Sunni and Shia Islam. When I first became Muslim I really didn't even think about that sort of things. I have now read books from both Sunni and Shia and tried both types of prayer.

I am wondering if there is non-sectarian Islam? In a way I miss the first week of my Muslim experience when I just thought Muslims where Muslim. Now I find myself confused trying to figure out which is right. I see some people say 'just read your Qu''ran and pray'.

Any info would be appreciated!

Salaam
 
Assalaamu alaikum brother gord,

I am wondering if there is non-sectarian Islam? In a way I miss the first week of my Muslim experience when I just thought Muslims where Muslim.

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) commanded us to stick to his way, to follow his sunnah, and not to split off into different factions, and to stick to the main body of Muslims. Unfortunately, the Shia did just that, and split themselves off. The word Shia itself means "faction". What you want to follow, is the Quran and authentic sunnah, as taught by the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), and as you said, to just be a Muslim, doing their best to obey Allah and the Prophet (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him).
 
As a new muslim myself, I am not too interested in defining myself.
By defining myself, I feel like I would be limiting myself, towards Islam.
I have no interest above being a good muslim, according to the Qur'an.

I feel like the other texts can add and subtract from the Qur'an. That is just me, I could be wrong but it seems like the divided groups of muslims begins when they do not use the Qur'an as their source. Or focus too strongly on one sentence instead of reading it as a whole text.

I could be totally wrong but I take Islam as something personal. It is not something to forced on someone/yourself, as Allah says that there is no compulsion in religion.
 
Assalaamu alaikum brother Snow

I have no interest above being a good muslim, according to the Qur'an.

The two sources of legislation for our faith, are the Qur'an and sunnah. The sunnah of the Prophet (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), was taught to him by Allah, and cannot be neglected. The Qur'an itself tells us to obey the Prophet (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), and the Prophets commands, practices, directives have been recorded and preserved, and must be followed, along with the Qur'an. Sometimes new Muslims think that following the Qur'an only is somehow a purer form of Islam. It is not. In fact it is very dangerous. The Prophets companions were praised by him, and after him, he told us we were to follow them, and they all followed the sunnah, according to Allah's command in the Qur'an and according to how the Prophet (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) taught them.

I could be totally wrong but I take Islam as something personal. It is not something to forced on someone/yourself, as Allah says that there is no compulsion in religion.

As new Muslims, you should not try to overwhelm yourself, and you should take things step by step. However, when you say your shahaadah and become a Muslim, it does necessitate acceptance of all that is mandated for a Muslim, and obeying Allah and his messenger (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him).

While everyone may feel Islam is personal to them, it is really important to note that we can't pick and choose the bits we choose to believe in. It is a whole. There is no compulsion in becoming a Muslim, i.e. you cannot force someone to become a Muslim. That is what the ayah refers to. One can't use that verse to say that once you are a Muslim, there's no compulsion as to what you follow/don't follow.

So, as a summary, the Qur'an and sunnah must both be followed.
We should do our best to fulfil the obligatory things in Islam to the best of our ability.
As new Muslims, take things step by step and don't overwhelm yourself.
Continue to post any questions/queries here so that we can help you. Also try to find some teachers locally, if possible.
As new Muslims, it is easy to not know that certain paths are not right. Stay on the way of the Prophet (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) and his companions (may Allah be pleased with them), following Qur'an and Sunnah. Do NOT follow split-off grups such as Shia, Qur'an only, etc.

May Allah keep you steadfast on the straight path and guide us all, ameen.
 
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Assalaamu alaikum brother Snow



The two sources of legislation for our faith, are the Qur'an and sunnah. The sunnah of the Prophet (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), was taught to him by Allah, and cannot be neglected.

So, as a summary, the Qur'an and sunnah must both be followed.

You may be right.
I have a couple of questions.
In 6:38 Allah says that he/Qu'ran has not left out/neglected a thing.
is that not a statement of the Qu'ran as a complete source?


Some sunnah seem to contradict the Qu'ran.

but I again say that I am no expert and these are just questions.
 
the right way is (sunnah)
cause following allah and muhammad

but shia !
they hate muhammad's wife (Aisha) رَضِيَ الله عَنْهَاْ
they hate muhammad's friends
for example (omar iben alkhattab) رَضِيَ الله عَنْهُ

their religion is really terrible !
it's not even Islam !!! :heated:
 
the right way is (sunnah)
cause following allah and muhammad

but shia !
they hate muhammad's wife (Aisha) رَضِيَ الله عَنْهَاْ
they hate muhammad's friends
for example (omar iben alkhattab) رَضِيَ الله عَنْهُ

their religion is really terrible !
it's not even Islam !!! :heated:

Not that I am about to solve the problem.
I just do not understand why people are focusing on how he/she is not following the right path. Instead of just trying their best on focusing on themselves.
if someone is a good muslim, I could not care less how they define themselves.
 
In 6:38 Allah says that he/Qu'ran has not left out/neglected a thing.
is that not a statement of the Qu'ran as a complete source?

You will notice the Qur'an does not tell us how many rakats (units) in each prayer, what percentage of zakat to give, etc. So people who use this ayah to justify their stance on not following the sunnah, as recorded in the hadeeth, then see that the question doesn't make sense. The ayah does not mean that everything, every detail of Islam, every detail of life, of the world is recorded in the Qur'an.

The Qur'an is a complete guide in that it directs us where to go for all the details. So many verses on obeying the Prophet (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). Allah taught the prophet the details of Islam that are not in the Qur'an, gave details for some parts which are.

This is one translation of the verse you gave the reference for:

There is not a moving (living) creature on earth, nor a bird that flies with its two wings, but are communities like you. We have neglected nothing in the Book, then unto their Lord they (all) shall be gathered.

One interpretation is that the Book here is not in reference to the Qur'an but the preserved tablet that has recorded on it everything that will occur up until the Day of Judgement. This is similar to Surah Hood, ayah 6.

If one takes the Book to refer to the Qur'an, this does not imply that the sunnah is not an authority and obligatory upon Muslims to follow. As we all know, the details concerning the prayer, zakat, fasts etc are not all spelled out, detailed, or explained in the Qur'an. So, in order for this interpretation to be accurate, given the reality of the situation, it must mean the following as ibn al-Jawzi explained it: "It is a general statement that has a particular intent behind it. The meaning therefore is: We have not omitted anything which you would be in need of except that it has been made clear in the book, either by clear text, undetailed statement, or indication." In other words, everything is mentioned in the Book, in either direct detail, or by reference to the source where the necessary detail can be found. Hence the Book itself does not contain details of the prayers, fasts and so forth, but the Book points the believer to where those details can be found: the sunnah of the Prophet . When understood in this manner, such verses are not an argument against the authority of the sunnah (or it's records in the hadeeth), but rather it's indispensability.

Clearly Allah does not spell out all the details of worship, law and life in the Qur'an itself. Instead, the Qur'an points the believer to all that is needed to be truly guided. Included in this is the sunnah itself as well as other aspects such as contemplating creation and so forth. The Qur'an clarifies all that is needed in one's life and part of what is needed in one's life is adherence to the sunnah of the messenger of Allah . The Book itself makes this fact abundantly clear with it's numerous verses containing the command to obey the Prophet . When we follow the Qur'an we are following Allah's words and command, as not a word of it is from the Prophet . To obey the Prophet we must follow his sayings, commands, actions, as they are recorded in the hadeeth. There is no more accurate record of the sunnah, than their preservation in the authentic hadeeth.

The sunnah of our beloved prophet is preserved down to the minutest detail in the authentic hadeeth, which is only proper if he is the last prophet, sent for the whole of mankind until the end of time, after whom no prophet will come. Otherwise the verse telling us that we have in the Prophets example a beautiful pattern of conduct for us, is meaningless.

If a person believes that nothing other than the word of Allah is to be considered, and any explanation by the Prophet is invalid, or that all explanations by him cannot be relied upon wholesale, in essence this is implying that Allah, instead of sending His book through a Prophet, could have sent printed copies directly to each individual, if it's explanation by the Prophet was not necessary, and if each individual had to use his/her own personal reasoning as it's explanation. It's implying that if He knew with His knowledge of the future that the records of the prophets explanations would be wholesale rejected and classified as corrupt, then He got it all wrong by sending it through a prophet and asking the prophet to explain it for mankind. But Allah did not leave us to fumble in the dark making our our own explanations, he sent the book to a prophet, described in the Qur'an as a mercy for all mankind, to show us how to put it into practice, to explain it to us, to show us the details for certain things mentioned without detail in the Qur'an etc. Allah was indeed was merciful to us in leaving us such a rich and detailed source of the explanation of the Qur'an, it exegesis, and in the Prophets character and practices, so that we can follow his example.
 
Not that I am about to solve the problem.
I just do not understand why people are focusing on how he/she is not following the right path. Instead of just trying their best on focusing on themselves.
if someone is a good muslim, I could not care less how they define themselves.


but they will never focusing on themselves !
actually they believe that they will go to heaven if they killed sunnis
we can't live in peace with them
they always hurt us :hmm:
 
You will notice the Qur'an does not tell us how many rakats (units) in each prayer, what percentage of zakat to give

This is one translation of the verse you gave the reference for:

We have neglected nothing in the Book,

About the zakat amount there is 17:26
Sahih International
And give the relative his right, and [also] the poor and the traveler, and do not spend wastefully.

Just because it does not mention a percentage it is not right?
I do not agree with it but that is all right.
 
About the zakat amount there is 17:26
Sahih International
And give the relative his right, and [also] the poor and the traveler, and do not spend wastefully.

Just because it does not mention a percentage it is not right?

Nobody said said the verse isn't right, and we seek Allah's refuge from such a notion.

Your point was that all details are in the Qur'an therefore we do not need anything else. The verse tells you to give, but not how much. This is where you need the sunnah. Have you read the information given and also I made another post after that with two links you may find very useful, in why we have to follow the sunnah, and about the hadeeth.

I do not agree with it but that is all right.

What do you not agree with?
 
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Nobody said said the verse isn't right, and we seek Allah's refuge from such a notion.

Your point was that all details are in the Qur'an therefore we do not need anything else. The verse tells you to give, but not how much. This is where you need the sunnah. Have you read the information given and also I made another post after that with two links you may find very useful, in why we have to follow the sunnah, and about the hadeeth.



What do you not agree with?

For an example the zakat. It talks about giving what is right. It is not specific about a percentage. I think it is challenging what you yourself feel is right.

Again, i could be very wrong.
 
Assalaamu alaikum Snow,

I understand your feelings, I think. Having found the Beauty of the Qur'an, you feel a little reluctance, especially when you hear and see some things offered as Sunnah that seem to offend your Heart's sense, to accept everything that is said or shown to you.

And there is wisdom in this. Not everything that is offered (in fact, too much) is true, or properly conveyed, or put into its proper context.

But there is also wisdom in looking at the Sunnah carefully. Because there is a great deal of useful and necessary information in it.

So what is a believer to do? Who to trust? What to believe? When approaching the Sunnah, I was very wary for years. But then I came across an excellent book by one of my favourite scholars, Yusuf Al-Qaradawi. Not only is he an excellent scholar in his rigour and knowledge, but he has a most beautiful character. He sincerely tries to understand the texts in the way best pleasing to Allah. While conservative in his methods, he is generous in his understanding. He is, in my opinion, a scholar of the sort that was best in Classical times, when it was believed that one could not be a true scholar unless one had an excellent character and manners.

Some years ago, a very high quality translation of his book Approaching the Sunnah: comprehension and controversy was published by The International Institute of Islamic Thought. If you are of an intellectual bent, I suspect that this will answer many of your questions and doubts concerning the Sunnah.

May you find the Path that leads ever closer to Him.
 
:salam:

Brother Gord it's really not that complicated if you know what the Majority follow. People follow scholars or "Learned" individuals so we need to know what the Majority of Scholars that have existed followed and so the tasks becomes more simple because there are many books written by thousands of scholars. I will break it down here:

1) Mohammad(SAW) already prophesied that the Muslims will split with into 73 sects and also told us the ones who split from the Majority are deviants and therefore all divisions will be a minority. So if a group appears and does something without the concencus (Ijma) of the scholars they are said to be deviants and it falls under reprehensible Innovation. However if the Majority of scholars agree upon it it becomes accepted and something the Majority follows.

2) Overwhelming Majority of Scholars for the last 1000 years have been following "Madhabs" which basically means schools of thoughts. This schools of thought basically came into existence due to unlearned and deviants individuals minsterpreting Qur'an and Sunnah which in turn caused mischief in the Muslim Lands. So the Scholars who were experts in Qur'an and Hadith united to confront the mischief makers. So in order to follow Qur'an and Sunnah properly and as our Pious predecessors have done we just need to see what the Madhab teaches and follow it.

3) There are 4 Madhabs - Hanafi, Shafi, Maliki and Hanbali. These aren't sects because they never conflicted with each other and "Ijma" has been reached by all scholars on their validity so they no longer fall under the category of "reprehensible Innovation" . So anyone who follows a Madhab is of the saved sect and the Majority.

I advise you to follow an Imam who has learnt from any of these Madhabs. Hope that's clarified the issue for you.
 
For an example the zakat. It talks about giving what is right. It is not specific about a percentage. I think it is challenging what you yourself feel is right.

Firstly, have you had a chance to read all the other points I've made, and the threads in the links I've given you? If so, have you understood them? Have any questions have arisen from them?

As to the quote above, this perfectly illustrates what happens when you reject the sunnah of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), the greatest teacher in the world, sent by Allah to teach us our religion and its practices, which has been taught to him by God, and instead take your own wrong understanding. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), informed us that zakat on cash, gold, silver etc is 2.5%, in the authentic ahadeeth, as mentioned here: Evidence from the Sunnah for the rate of zakaah being 2.5% - islamqa.info. After the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) has told us, there is no room for own opinion or what you yourself think is right.

It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decided a matter that they should have any option in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he has indeed strayed in a plain error. (Translation of Qur'an 33:36)

For people who do not want to follow sects, both of you seem to be veering (even if inadvertently) towards just that. The prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) and his companions (may Allah be pleased with them) weren't Shia, they weren't sunnah rejectors. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) followed the Qur'an and taught the sunnah as instructed to him by God and practised it himself and ordered others to do the same. And that is the only thing that is acceptable, to follow the Qur'an and sunnah. Anything else has veered off the right path.

May Allah guide you both and us all to the straight path, and once we are on it, keep us steadfast on it, ameen.
 
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Salam alaykum,

Everyone has a tradition. We're standing on the shoulders of giants and it's important we recognize that. Present day muslims would not have a faith so refined if we hadn't had the sahaba and, to a lesser extent, people such as Imam Bukhari, Imam al-Ghazali, Abu Hanifa, Junayd, Imam ash-Shafi'i, Imam Nawawi, Abdul Qadir Jilani, etc. [may Allah be pleased with them]. As sunnis, we follow the way of the sahaba, but our understanding of how they lived and how they understood the Prophet [peace be upon him], is, to a large extend, the result of us learning from others. If we say that we're "just muslims" and that we have no traditions, that is to do a disservice to the many brave men and women who were willing to die to live out the sunnah.

We're muslims before we are sufis, hanafis, salafis, shafi'is, deobandis or anything like that. We still have traditions, though. We can have disagreements on minor things. I'm not a salafi, but I can pray next to a salafi brother with confidence because I know that there's something greater than ourselves that holds us together, despite the minor disagreements we have.
 
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Assalaamu alaikum Gord,


(smile) I also became interested in Shi'a thought about 15 years ago. And I have also asked myself: why can't we all just be Muslims?


So this is a brief summary of what I found: After the Prophet's (PBUH) death, there were political struggles for who would lead the Muslims. The “shi'a Ali” were literally the “party of Ali”. They felt that Ali (RA) should have been the leader, not Abu Bakr (RA). While Ali (RA) did eventually end up leading the Muslims, there continued to be more struggles for power, particularly after Ali (RA) was assassinated. And what started out as a political division gradually ended up acquiring doctrinal divisions, too.


There have been struggles within the Sunni groups, too, but they have gelled in the present time to 4 schools of thought (mathaahib) that generally respect one another.There were other schools in the past, and the present 4 have not always gotten along as well. And the Shi'a have their own school.


Personally, I'm not very interested in doctrinal fights. I'm more interested in finding Allah's Will and Pleasing Him. I think it is fair to say that the majority of Muslims identify as Sunni, and that this is a powerful argument for the view that to be a Sunni is more Pleasing to Allah, because social harmony is important in Islam. But I have read Shi'a texts, and spoken with Shi'a people. And I believe that there are people who call themselves Shi'a who are struggling towards Allah. It could be argued that perhaps it would be an even greater social harmony if we could respect one another more and deal with more urgent problems in our world, instead of fighting between ourselves about who has greater doctrinal purity.


As I understand it, “Muslim” is not just a label. It implies a certain kind of relationship with God. A relationship of acknowledgement of God and a surrendering of the Self to Allah, Who Knows, Who Cares, Who Decrees. A Muslim, by definition, is one who actively seeks to be in a state of Islam (of surrender to Allah).


It seems to me that we humans are in varying degrees of proximity to full Islam. And that none of us really knows anyone's true state.


As the judging of a person's relationship with Him is Allah's province, I think it in appropriate of me to reject or feel superior to anyone who is working on his or her relationship with Allah. In Classical times, it was felt that the safest course to take is to assume that everyone else may be better Beloved by Allah than yourself, and to treat them with respect and dignity, and to assume that you yourself are lacking in perfection (which we so are!) and focus on your own flaws.


This is the course I prefer to take. I do not agree with some fundamental Shi'ite ideas, but I do not consider a person who labels himself as Shi'a as therefore non-Muslim. This is Allah's jurisdiction. And one Day, He Will Inform us of all upon which we disagree.


(smile) And in the meantime, we can read our Qur'an, ahadith, eminent scholars, talk to our neighbours, take walks in the forest... and do the best we can with what we understand.


But only Allah truly Knows.


May He Guide our feet on the Path towards Him.
 
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Salam alaykum,

Everyone has a tradition. We're standing on the shoulders of giants and it's important we recognize that. Present day muslims would not have a faith so refined if we hadn't had the sahaba and, to a lesser extent, people such as Imam Bukhari, Imam al-Ghazali, Abu Hanifa, Junayd, Imam ash-Shafi'i, Imam Nawawi, Abdul Qadir Jilani, etc. [may Allah be pleased with them]. As sunnis, we follow the way of the sahaba, but our understanding of how they lived and how they understood the Prophet [peace be upon him], is, to a large extend, the result of us learning from others. If we say that we're "just muslims" and that we have no traditions, that is to do a disservice to the many brave men and women who were willing to die to live out the sunnah.

We're muslims before we are sufis, hanafis, salafis, shafi'is, deobandis or anything like that. We still have traditions, though. We can have disagreements on minor things. I'm not a salafi, but I can pray next to a salafi brother with confidence because I know that there's something greater than ourselves that holds us together, despite the minor disagreements we have.

:salam:

Well said :)

Difference in opinion has always existed. For example:

The Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) said in a hadith which is related by al-Bukhari, he said that everybody should pray at Bani Quraydah at Asr. Now when the sahaba were on the way to Bani Quraydah, Asr time came. Some of the sahaba understood that the Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) was telling them to hurry up and be at Bani Quraydah by Asr time. That is how they understood the statement. Other ones said no we don’t pray Asr until we get to Bani Quraydah so some of the sahaba prayed the Asr prayer because the time came in and they said we were late, we didn’t get to Bani Quraydah by Asr so we are going to pray now. The other group of sahaba said no. The Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) said do not pray Asr unless you are at Bani Quraydah. So they chose to delay and when they got to Bani Quraydah they told the Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) what happened and the Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) did not condemn either group. In other words he accepted their ijtihad, both of the two groups so that is a very important hadith that the Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) did not blame either one. - See more at: Sheikh Hamza Yusuf | Transcript > Etiquettes of Disagreement

And it's a mercy from Allah Most High that we accept our differences and get along. In the example above both groups of Sahaba who differed in their actions were correct. So there can be more then one right course of Action. Similarly with the Madhabs no matter which you follow they are all correct despite their differences because they are all grounded on Qur'an and Sunnah.
 
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As a new muslim myself, I am not too interested in defining myself.
By defining myself, I feel like I would be limiting myself, towards Islam.
I have no interest above being a good muslim, according to the Qur'an.

I feel like the other texts can add and subtract from the Qur'an. That is just me, I could be wrong but it seems like the divided groups of muslims begins when they do not use the Qur'an as their source. Or focus too strongly on one sentence instead of reading it as a whole text.

I could be totally wrong but I take Islam as something personal. It is not something to forced on someone/yourself, as Allah says that there is no compulsion in religion.

This doesn't make any sense,

If your a Muslim, then you must strive to be a Good Muslim,

as for the Sunnah of the Messenger :saws:, if you Reject it, like Hadith Rejectors, it is Kufr, and takes you out of the fold of Islam, not to mention that you would be Disobeying Several Direct commands of Allah ta'ala and be unable to complete a significant portion of Islam like Salah, Hajj, Zakah etc

May Allah ta'ala rectify your conduct and affairs,

ameen

:jz:
 

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