Jesus never said "Father"

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OmAbdullah

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بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

Jesus (Eisa alaihi salaam) was one of the great Prophets and Messengers (alaihim salaam). Allah sent Prophets and Messengers to guide mankind towards Tawheed which is the absolute one-ness and uniqueness of God Allah. So he could never say Father to the Almighty God and he (Jesus) could never say that he was God himself. He could never say that he was one of the three constituents of God, even he couldn't say that God is composed of three constituents.


All of these SENSELESS beliefs are false accusations on Jesus (Eisa alaihi salaam) for which the accusers shall suffer everlasting grievous punishment. That punishment shall takeover the sinners right at the time of death and then will never end.
 
When I'm being respectful to somebody in my own language. I use a certain word that is a respectful version of yes.

...it is also a shortened version of father.

Its up to people to make of it what they will although it would not have any relevance in particular unless you had to constantly hear it.
 
When I'm being respectful to somebody in my own language. I use a certain word that is a respectful version of yes.

...it is also a shortened version of father.

Its up to people to make of it what they will although it would not have any relevance in particular unless you had to constantly hear it.


This is a very vague statement. What do you mean to say? Say it clearly so that we may know clearly about your FAITH. Then it will be possible to discuss the subject.
 
Is there any Christian to argue with a sound proof? Until now there has been none and there can be none. So then come to the absolute truth of the religion that God is absolutely One, Single and Unique. There is none like un to HIM. God has no son, no father, no relative and no helper and being the Eternal Absolute doesn't need any helper or relative. These are the weaknesses of human beings that they need relatives and helpers. God is The Creator of all, is High above any weaknesses.


When you understand the truth and surely you do, then why are you getting late in accepting the truth. You shouldn't be late because the time of death is not known. It may overtake you any time. If you go from this world with the unbelief in the absolute Oneness of God, unbelief in Hereafter,in Accounting, in Hell for unbelievers and in paradise for the believers then remember that the angels will take your soul in very painful condition. The poor soul tries to hide in the body and doesn't want to be taken out while the angels will beat you with spread arms and will pull out the soul forcefully. Have you ever seen a disobedient dying person. His time of death is very long and he/she is in agonizing pain!!!


Please be merciful to yourself. The punishment will start at the time of death and then it will never end. Regretting will be of no use. This life is the only chance to choose the right path. Remember, all Prophets were human beings. Adam alaihi salaam was the first of the Prophets and Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم was the last of the Prophets. We all mankind are ordered to believe in all of them and to follow their correct teachings. For the same purpose Allah has preserved the Final Book i.e. Quraan from any change. So that any man/woman may not have a chance to complain to Allah that he/she didn't have a correct source of guidance.


At least you must read and understand the Holy Quraan with open mind. Lest you will bite your own hands for rejecting the truth.
 
The Christians believe in all of the Messengers and Prophets of God except the Final Prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam. As a matter of fact, all of the prophets since Adam alaihi salaam have given the same one Message to mankind. The Message is that God is The Creator of all, God is The Supreme Being and the Unique Being. God is the Giver of death and life. God is the Lord and there is none like un to God. The Christians must be knowing from their Bible and Talmud that this faith is a very sensitive matter because God shall not forgive the sin of associating someone with God.

The Christians must revise the message of the Prophet Muses (Musa alaihi salaam) and that of Ibraeem (Ibraham ) alaihi salaam. Pharaoh became the enemy of Musa alaihi salaam and Namrood became the enemy of Ibraheem alaihi salaam only because of this Message of the Oneness of God. The Prophet Eisa alaihi salaam (Jesus) also conveyed the same Message of the absolute Oneness of God and that no one has the right to associate any partner with Allah, the Almighty God. God has no father, no son, no relative and being the Owner of all Power, God does not need such relations. Almighty God is High Above any weakness. These are human beings who need relatives due to their weak nature.

The Prophet Jesus said: "Verily Allah is my Lord and your Lord so worship HIM."
Then what happened that some men like Paul added Polytheism to the Pure Faith conveyed by all of the Prophets alaihim us salaam and blamed his false statements on the innocent Prophet Jesus ( Eisa alaihi salaam)???

O Christian fellows, think sincerely, you surely believe in the Prophets from Adam to Musa (Muses ) alaihim-us-salaam, observe and think, do you find any where that God had the intention to make a son??? No! No! You cannot find such polytheistic message with any Prophet. Then how can you believe that Jesus, a human being, the son of a human being (Maryam ) became the son of the Supreme God and Lord, the One, the Unique. Surely your wisdom will guide you to the Truth, but you shouldn't fight with your wisdom otherwise you shall make yourself a dweller of the Ever-Lasting Fire!!!!

The Final Prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam has also conveyed the same message as was conveyed by all of the other Prophets, therefore you shouldn't become his (salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam) enemies otherwise you shall make yourself dwellers of the Ever-Lasting Fire.
 
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This is the second thread I've visited on this board and, like the first thread, it seems to just be "X didn't happen because it contradicts my beliefs" without any supporting evidence
 
The problem revolves around each religion's attachment to its sources. As a Muslim, I can only accept that he never said Father. As a Christian, you are bound to hold those beliefs.

I always ask: Why accept the four gospels as reliable in the first place?
 
This is the second thread I've visited on this board and, like the first thread, it seems to just be "X didn't happen because it contradicts my beliefs" without any supporting evidence

Peace,

I have a lot of supporting evidence from the Holy Quraan, a Divine Book which is "Muhaimin" on the past Divine Books. Muhaimin means the one that preserves all Truth which was truly sent down to the previous Prophets (peace be upon them) from the Only One God Allah. That Truth was then present in the Divine Books, but now people changed those Books. I will bring to you evidence from the Holy Quraan, but you will reject it because you are blindly following the wrong corrupted books. In fact I will like you to wake up, use your own wisdom to choose a source of guidance which is TRUE. That is not difficult. The only thing you have to do is to become sincere and read the Books with open mind.

Why don't you read the Holy Quraan??? Is it because you fear that you may become against Christianity? If that is the case then it surely means that you are standing on very weak legs. Lie has no legs to stand upon. You are standing on a weak base composed of lie. Come to the Truth. Does your wisdom accept that the Almighty God, The Creator of all and every thing is a human being? None of the Pharaohs ever claimed that he was the creator of the heavens and the earth because they knew that no body will believe in such a claim. But Satan's friends made Jesus (a human being ) the creator of the heavens and the earth!!! Very strange!!!

Then ask your conscience and wisdom in solitude, Is it possible that the Almighty God wanted to forgive the killers, massacre-makers and all type of criminals and that God couldn't do it directly, so God made a human son for that unjust purpose and then made the human son get sacrificed on the cross?????

What a series of senseless conjectures!!! Every one of these conjectures is unbelievable to a sound mind. Satan is our open enemy. Why are so many human beings, with great wisdom, falling prey to this enemy? He (Satan) has challenged that he would prove to God that these human beings are not deserving the high position where God ordered the angels to prostrate to him( Human kind). So Satan is jealous and is trying to lead you into Hell. And you are following him blindly.

Please be sincere to yourself and protect yourself from the Ever Lasting Hell. Take your Bible and also take the Holy Quraan and read and understand the two side by side. Your wisdom will insha Allah claim that Quraan is the self witness Book that it is Divine and it is presenting all the Truth. Read the chapter Maryam in the Holy Quraan. There is the statement of Jesus in the lap of his mother. He, just after his birth said the following:

[Jesus] said, "Indeed, I am the servant of Allah . He has given me the Scripture and made me a prophet.
And He has made me blessed wherever I am and has enjoined upon me prayer and zakah as long as I remain alive
And [made me] dutiful to my mother, and He has not made me a wretched tyrant.
And peace is on me the day I was born and the day I will die and the day I am raised alive."

Jesus (Eisa alaihi salaam) said these words as a new born baby. This was the miracle of Jesus. Does your Bible tells you about this miracle of Jesus? But The Quraan told us about Jesus' miracles because the Quraan is The MUHAIMIN.

After this Allah said in the same chapter Maryam:

That is Jesus, the son of Mary - the word of truth about which they are in dispute.
It is not [befitting] for Allah to take a son; exalted is He! When He decrees an affair, He only says to it, "Be," and it is.


Please note that the real name of Mary was Maryam and that of Jesus was Eisa. Also the name of angel Gabriel is Jibreel. But your people changed even the names. I had read the chapter Maryam to a nun from a church. she was surprised to hear this unique statement and asked me that from where did I get it? I told her that it is the Book sent down to the final Prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam. She accepted the fact that Jesus' real name was Eisa and that of Mary was Maryam.
 
Allah sent all the Prophets and Messengers عليهم السلام to teach mankind that Allah Almighty God is high above such weak qualities and so Almighty God Allah is absolutely one Single and Unique. This is not the status of a Prophet to say that he was god or that he was the son of God. Even for a common man it is not allowed to believe in such a nonsense and wrong idea which has surely come from Satan. Surely Satan is our manifest enemy. To know the horrible nature of such words, Allah has said in the Holy Quraan:

88. And they say: The Beneficent hath taken unto Himself a son.

89. Indeed you have brought forth (said) a terrible evil thing.

90. Whereby the heavens are almost torn, and the earth is split asunder, and the mountains fall in ruins,

91. That they ascribe a son (or offspring or children) to the Most Beneficent (Allah).

92. And it is not suitable for (the Majesty of) the Most Beneficent (Allah) that He should take a son (or offspring or children).

93. There is none in the heavens and the earth but comes unto the Most Beneficent (Allah) as a slave.

94. Certainly He has a comprehensive knowledge of them and He has numbered them a (comprehensive) numbering.

95. And everyone of them will come to Him alone on the Day of Resurrection (without any helper, or protector or defender).

Translation of the verses from surah Maryam (Mary).
 
Allah Almighty said in surah Al Nisaa verse 171:

171. O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allah aught but the truth. The Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah and His Word, ("Be!" - and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Ruh) created by Him; so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not: "Three (trinity)!" Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allah is (the only) One Ilah (God), Glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is All-Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs.
 
Allah, The Only One God, said in surah Al-Kahf, verses 4 and 5:

4. And to warn those who say, " Allah has taken a son."
5. They have no knowledge of it, nor had their fathers. Grave is the word that comes out of their mouths; they speak not except a lie.

Please take it very seriously, Try to discard this wrong faith which is going to make the Christians, dwellers of the Hell- Fire for ever. Believe in only One God Who is The Supreme and Unique Being, Allah. Allah, Almighty God has no son, no daughter, no wife and no relative.
 
the only thing that makes me stay far away from religion is that each person has their own journey, but i look at historical facts instead, those who are do not believe any of it, but bring forth logical data that has no bias of belief. all i know is historically according to archaeologists and those that study men of the past is that the Judaism/Christian beliefs have their start around 0-100 AD and Islam has its start about 620 AD. From the start of those religions All Believers have been hurt by outside influences or each other. Romans Killed Christians, Christians Killed Muslims, Muslims Kill Christians and Jews, Its all been ether one crusade or a Jihad. I'm not trying to insult anyone just putting forth facts. So then all of these belief systems ask people to believe that they hold the truth. But what i want, more than anything is to see people showing Love. isn't that what Jesus Taught? so you see, in my opinion, i tend to stay away from organized religion because people say they are right, but instead of following the example of the most loving being(so that i do not insult anyone's faith)that ever walked this earth.
Now once someone can show me a religion without Hate, Fear, War , Killing, then i might listen completely. don't get me wrong, i have come here to learn about your beliefs, so that i can be more Tolerant and avoid listening to all the horrible things people do in the name of God. but I think no matter who Jesus was or wasn't in the end we should learn from those that showed us to be a Peaceful, Humble, Loving individual. I'm not saying i'm perfect. But i detest Violence and Hatred. Peace to you all.
 
Thats correct, the religion of the cristians has changed so much that it is not even that anymore
 
But didn't Mohammad say to kill is like killing the entire human race, but to save a life is to save the entire human race. I believe Mohammad has set a precedence here, he is basically telling his followers to kill or assult a non-believer is going to make them see hate, this rejecting any wisdom in the Quraan. Approaching someone with kindness and giving them time to read it would be far more reaching in the end.
 
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

Jesus (Eisa alaihi salaam) was one of the great Prophets and Messengers (alaihim salaam). Allah sent Prophets and Messengers to guide mankind towards Tawheed which is the absolute one-ness and uniqueness of God Allah. So he could never say Father to the Almighty God and he (Jesus) could never say that he was God himself. He could never say that he was one of the three constituents of God, even he couldn't say that God is composed of three constituents.


All of these SENSELESS beliefs are false accusations on Jesus (Eisa alaihi salaam) for which the accusers shall suffer everlasting grievous punishment. That punishment shall takeover the sinners right at the time of death and then will never end.


when ever u want to convince someone of something provide evidence ,,,i agree what Nakai has said,,,even i have read many threads in which there are literally essays written to prove that people who dont follow islam are going to hell (i dont know why muslims are tend to b so angry)u know what even we can say all that stuff to u but we dont :statisfie

focus on references thats the key point if u wanna convince someone,,,

Can i ask u something,,what is HOLY SPIRIT(Roh-ul_qudus) in quran?there are verses where angels,spirit,and gabrial is used separately in different verses in quarn?so how can u say that holy spirit is actually gabrial nd not a spirit of God? what does HIS spirit ,Our spirit,My spirit means in Quran?nd why it is wrong to assume that it means spirit Of God?

the main diff between islam and christianity is due to this very point ,,,can u state the quranic verses with arabic translation please and tell how to prove this concept according to quran?
 
can i ask u something,,

You can ask me :)


what is holy spirit(roh-ul_qudus) in quran?there are verses where angels,spirit,and gabrial is used separately in different verses in quarn?so how can u say that holy spirit is actually gabrial nd not a spirit of god? What does his spirit ,our spirit,my spirit means in quran?nd why it is wrong to assume that it means spirit of god?

The main diff between islam and christianity is due to this very point ,,,can u state the quranic verses with arabic translation please and tell how to prove this concept according to quran?

Here, I have quoted the Ruh Al Quddus ayaat from the Quran.

And We did certainly give Moses the Torah and followed up after him with messengers. And We gave Jesus, the son of Mary, clear proofs and supported him with the Pure Spirit. But is it [not] that every time a messenger came to you, [O Children of Israel], with what your souls did not desire, you were arrogant? And a party [of messengers] you denied and another party you killed. - Surah al Baqarah ayah 87

"Of those messengers, some of them We have caused to excel others, and there are some unto whom Allah spake, while some of them He has exalted in degree; and We gave Jesus, son of Mary, clear proofs (of Allah's sovereignty) and We supported him with the Holy Spirit." Surah al Baqarah ayah 253

Jesus pbuh was supported by the Ruh al Quddus - according to the above.

"(The day) when God saith: 'O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the Holy Spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity." - Surah al Maida ayah 110

The ayah above tells us that both, Jesus pbuh and his mother - Mary pbuh, were both supported by the Ruh al Quddus.

"Say: the Holy Spirit has brought the Revelation from thy Lord in Truth, in order to strengthen those who believe, and as guidance and glad tidings to Muslims." - Surah an Nahl ayah 102

...Soooo, it turns out that the Prophet Muhammad pbuh was also supported by the Ruh al Quddus.

If the Holy Spirit (Ruh al Quddus) is brings revelation, to the Prophet Muhammad pbuh, and we are told in multiple chained super reliable ahadeeth that Gabriel (Jibreel AS) the Arch Angel was the one who delivered the revelations - then it clearly stands to reason, logic and common sense that Gabriel the Arch Angel, is the Ruh al Quddus - the Holy Spirit. Thus, may an Islamic scholar has deduced the same, and gone into way more detail than I have done so here.

Here above, is the evidence you wanted, with quotes from scripture.

I ask you, what is the Ruh al Quddus according to you? Is it any different to Islamic understanding? or have you come to your own unique way of understanding it - if so, please explain the contextualization with references, thank you.

Scimi
 
1:بِرُوحِ الْقُدُسِ

Used in 3 verses which u have mentioned with Jesus

And 1 tym in Surah an Nahl ayah 102 where u have mentioned that Ruh or spirit is used for Gabriel,,is it necessary that it should be used for Gabriel ?because in same surah ayat 2 it is not used for Gabriel ,,,

He sends down the angels,(Yunazzilu almala-ikata) with the inspiration of His command,(bialrroohi min amrihi) upon whom He wills of His servants, [telling them], "Warn that there is no deity except Me; so fear Me."


Used for Wahi or inspiration of His command,,,

2)
17:85 And they ask you, [O Muhammad], about the spirit. Say, "The spirit is of the affair of my Lord. And mankind have not been given of knowledge except a little."



According to is this verse u can’t even know what a spirit is ,then how can u say that Roh-al qadoos is Gabriel ,,,when u are not even given the knowledge of it ?

3)
"الۡمَلِکِ الۡقُدُّوۡسِ"

it has been used two times with Allah in Quran:

59:23
He is Allah , other than whom there is no deity, the Sovereign, the Pure, the Perfection, the Bestower of Faith, the Overseer, the Exalted in Might, the Compeller, the Superior. Exalted is Allah above whatever they associate with Him.

62:1: Whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth is exalting Allah , the Sovereign, the Pure, the Exalted in Might, the Wise.

Don’t u think it will be wrong to use it with an angel if if it is used for Allah?

4) 19:19 He said, "I am only the messenger (Rasool) of your Lord to give you [news of] a pure boy."

However Rasool and Angels are different in the following ayat and are not the same thing

2:98)Whoever is an enemy to Allah and His angels and His messengers (Apostles) and Gabriel and Michael - then indeed, Allah is an enemy to
the disbelievers.


Messengers (Rasool) is written separately from Angels does it mean that in ayat 19:19 messenger of lord is not an angel?


U asked me what is my understanding about it,,,
From what i have come to know while studying Quran Roh-al-qadoos is not Gabriel,,if it is Gabriel then why it is not clearly mentioned?
There is no confusion in christianity they clearly say that it is the spirit of God Himself(a part of God),,that's why they say Son Of God,,,then why there is confusion in Islam.
Why do the ayats have above mentioned contradict each other?
I am not defending Christianity as I am notChristian but i am confused about it that how did the translators came to the conclusion that it in in fact Gabriel or they just assumed it,,,many translators actually replace this word with Gabriel in their translations (which in my opinion a person should not replace the actual arabic translation with their own understanding,,,because people usually dont focus on arabic and it creates misunderstanding)

I do believe in Oneness of God ,I don't believe that Jesus is the Son of God but if Quran says that It was His spirit(Gods own spirit) and He hasn't mentioned this thing about other Prophets then why cant we believe that it was a part of God?And it is not necessary to believe that if it was God's own spirit then it makes Jesus the SOn of God,,,,,
So why cant we believe both-Oneness of God and also that it was God's Own Spirit








 
Sana Ijaz, what is your religion? It might help us to explain things better if we know where you're coming from.

And 1 tym in Surah an Nahl ayah 102 where u have mentioned that Ruh or spirit is used for Gabriel,,is it necessary that it should be used for Gabriel ?because in same surah ayat 2 it is not used for Gabriel ,,,

He sends down the angels,(Yunazzilu almala-ikata) with the inspiration of His command,(bialrroohi min amrihi) upon whom He wills of His servants, [telling them], "Warn that there is no deity except Me; so fear Me."

Used for Wahi or inspiration of His command,,,

Your post shows a lack of understanding of how languages work.

In many languages, one word can have more than one meaning. Let's take the English word foil. You can wrap your sandwiches in foil, or you can foil a plot. Refers to two different things. But people who know English, know the two contexts of the word. If someone who is not familiar with English then comes along and says, "how can you say this sentence makes sense?", this is obviously from lack of knowledge.

2)17:85 And they ask you, [O Muhammad], about the spirit. Say, "The spirit is of the affair of my Lord. And mankind have not been given of knowledge except a little."

According to is this verse u can’t even know what a spirit is ,then how can u say that Roh-al qadoos is Gabriel ,,,when u are not even given the knowledge of it ?

It doesn't say you haven't been given knowledge. If you read the translation that you yourself have quoted, it says "except a little". The knowledge we have on any matter, is tiny as compared to the vast knowledge of Allah. Yet what we have been given, is enough for us.

"And if whatever trees upon the earth were pens and the sea [was ink], replenished thereafter by seven [more] seas, the words of Allah would not be exhausted. Indeed, Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise." (31:27)

"Say, "If the sea were ink for [writing] the words of my Lord, the sea would be exhausted before the words of my Lord were exhausted, even if We brought the like of it as a supplement."" (18:109)

"[...]We raise in degrees whom We will, but over every possessor of knowledge is one [more] knowing. " (12:76, part)

3)"الۡمَلِکِ الۡقُدُّوۡسِ"

it has been used two times with Allah in Quran:We raise in degrees whom We will, but over every possessor of knowledge is one [more] knowing.

59:23
He is Allah , other than whom there is no deity, the Sovereign, the Pure, the Perfection, the Bestower of Faith, the Overseer, the Exalted in Might, the Compeller, the Superior. Exalted is Allah above whatever they associate with Him.

62:1: Whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth is exalting Allah , the Sovereign, the Pure, the Exalted in Might, the Wise.

Don’t u think it will be wrong to use it with an angel if if it is used for Allah?

Can you read Arabic? Qudus, is a different word, in pronunciation and meaning, from Al-Quddoos. Allah is the only One who is Al-Quddoos.

U asked me what is my understanding about it,,,
From what i have come to know while studying Quran Roh-al-qadoos is not Gabriel,,if it is Gabriel then why it is not clearly mentioned?
There is no confusion in christianity they clearly say that it is the spirit of God Himself(a part of God),,that's why they say Son Of God,,,then why there is confusion in Islam.
Why do the ayats have above mentioned contradict each other?
I am not defending Christianity as I am notChristian but i am confused about it that how did the translators came to the conclusion that it in in fact Gabriel or they just assumed it,,,many translators actually replace this word with Gabriel in their translations (which in my opinion a person should not replace the actual arabic translation with their own understanding,,,because people usually dont focus on arabic and it creates misunderstanding)
I do believe in Oneness of God ,I don't believe that Jesus is the Son of God but if Quran says that It was His spirit(God’s own spirit) and He hasn't mentioned this thing about other Prophets then why cant we believe that it was a part of God?And it is not necessary to believe that if it was God's own spirit then it makes Jesus the SOn of God,,,,,
So why cant we believe both-Oneness of God and also that it was God's Own Spirit

You said you have studied. In Islam we have etiquettes of studying, which include not making up our own explanations, and referring to people of knowledge. The confusion, which has existed since the early days in Christianity, is what to do with the holy spirit, what it was. They couldn't decide, then nearly 400 years after Isa alayhissalaam (Jesus, peace be on him), one group discarded all other views and said the holy spirit was the part of God that lived in human bodies. This, up to that point, had nowhere been clearly stated, not even in scripture. Islam is clear, and has no such confusion. As to translations, most put explanatory words in additions in brackets, and don't replace words. Your logic above is faulty, as explained by the lack of knowledge of Arabic. It is "a spirit from Him" or a spirit belonging to Him. Therefore we cannot and do not say it was God's own spirit, or somehow part of God. God is separate from His creation, not mixed up in it in any way. And it is this purity and clearness and simplicity of the concept of God, which is among the many things that attract people to Islam.
 
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