Prove god or Allah to an Atheist.

[Auratricles]

Hello, my name is Auratricles.

I am an Atheist, I believe without a doubt, that there is no god.

I believe that these holy books (Qur'an, Bible, ect) are nothing but fairy tails woven by people in ancient times as an attempt at explaining the world around them, or as a means of control over certain people.

I have come here, to see if anyone at all can make me believe in god (expect me to refute to any "proof" provided, and also for me to point out any logical fallacies I may see).

Also if you have any questions I would be happy to answer them also.

 

[Auratricles]

(bump)

 

[Patrick]

He can't be proven. But there is something interesting you can explain. In science after years of discovery there theory basically comes down to 1 event that created everything to exist in the universe. Now there name for it is the big bang. And when the big bang occurred all else that was to be was. To me that is another religion. There name big bang can be called that because science uses terminology but you can very easily put a term on it that calls "big bang" God, Creator, or Allah. To me they believe in one creator it is no different. The only difference is how much longer it took them to start to believe that one thing created the universe than it took the believers from the books. Atheism is just another religion to me with other explanations of our origins. You can just say we discovered that first.

 

[Patrick]

Allah also never said he was human. And if you ask many muslims Christians Buddhist or Jews to describe him it's not like we have an answer. I'm not talking away from scientific accomplishments I'm just merely explaining that in order for them to believe in one thing that has life stars people anything in the universe it had to come from there creator. And thus all in the universe no matter how young or old has been created from it. Just as Allah described to us many times before it became what is claimed by all scientific scholars to the date. He said he put all stars in balence and made them that way perfectly. He also said he is lord of the worlds. As followers of Allah you were given the task of not changing his words so they could not be altered or added to no matter what information a human being figured out for himself down the line after the book was given. Science a main mean for people to not believe in Allah but in its beginnings believes all must have come from one creator has been given thousands and thousands of years to add and elaborate any theory they choose to discover next. Allah said I will let you take forever to try to find out the depths of me and you will need longer still. My only point it is is impossible to live amongst the world and universe that has taken its shape from the creator in any which way you want to look at it with out coming to the conclusion yes there was one creator and my name for it is.......Well whatever you are allowed to decide but we as believers like to call him Allah.

 

[sister herb]

I have come here, to see if anyone at all can make me believe in god (expect me to refute to any "proof" provided, and also for me to point out any logical fallacies I may see).

Hello Auratricles

No human can make you to believe to anything - this is Allah who decides if you are able to believe or not. Read the Quran and think can you open your heart to Islam.

Also if you have any questions I would be happy to answer them also.

I think we haven´t interest to ask questions about atheism. This is the forum where you (and others) can ask questions and seek knowledge about Islam. You are the most welcome to find more information about that subject from here.

 

[greenhill]

Welcome to the forum.

God is a personal thing. A person needs to find Him of his own initiative. And, if Allah has challenged all to read it, then that's where it should start.

Wishing you a great stay.

eace:

 

[sister herb]

Also remember that many today´s muslims are yesterday's atheists - like myself for example. Paths what Allah has planned to everyone are
mysterious. And Allah is the best planner.

:statisfie

 

[Abdullahh]

Hello there. I was an atheist at one time, and I understand how you feel about Allah and the whole idea of religion due to the fact that I felt that way for around 5 years or so..I encourage you to read the Quran if you find the time.

 

[MuslimInshallah]

Greetings Auratricles,

(smile) You know, your name is rather intriguing. I'm afraid my Latin is abysmal, but doesn't your (somewhat anglicized) name mean something like: glory of the golden three? It's a bit curious for an atheist to have such a name. Would you mind sharing why you chose this name (or have I understood it incorrectly)? I find the names people choose tend to reflect something about them. (smile) And I like to know and understand my interlocutors.

May God, the One and Only, Bless you with deepening insights.

 

[Auratricles]

He can't be proven. But there is something interesting you can explain. In science after years of discovery there theory basically comes down to 1 event that created everything to exist in the universe. Now there name for it is the big bang. And when the big bang occurred all else that was to be was. To me that is another religion. There name big bang can be called that because science uses terminology but you can very easily put a term on it that calls "big bang" God, Creator, or Allah. To me they believe in one creator it is no different. The only difference is how much longer it took them to start to believe that one thing created the universe than it took the believers from the books. Atheism is just another religion to me with other explanations of our origins. You can just say we discovered that first.

Okay, that is a fair way of putting it.

Atheists, or at least most Atheists, believe in science and logical reasoning.
This can be said for me, I do not just believe what is told to me, I want evidence not promises.

Look, it doesn't take a mastermind to understand, the universe has a beginning and an end, just because a religion says "God created the universe(or earth whatever)." does not mean that it is directly referring to the Big Bang, also I would like to say that, if you are in the middle ages, it would be safe to assume that the world had a beginning, and an end, it doesn't require scientific testing to know that everything has a beginning and an end, the universe is no exception to that. Therefore I would say that the references to the creation of the universe/earth is not that much proof of a god or deity.

 

[Auratricles]

Allah also never said he was human. And if you ask many muslims Christians Buddhist or Jews to describe him it's not like we have an answer. I'm not talking away from scientific accomplishments I'm just merely explaining that in order for them to believe in one thing that has life stars people anything in the universe it had to come from there creator. And thus all in the universe no matter how young or old has been created from it. Just as Allah described to us many times before it became what is claimed by all scientific scholars to the date. He said he put all stars in balence and made them that way perfectly. He also said he is lord of the worlds. As followers of Allah you were given the task of not changing his words so they could not be altered or added to no matter what information a human being figured out for himself down the line after the book was given. Science a main mean for people to not believe in Allah but in its beginnings believes all must have come from one creator has been given thousands and thousands of years to add and elaborate any theory they choose to discover next. Allah said I will let you take forever to try to find out the depths of me and you will need longer still. My only point it is is impossible to live amongst the world and universe that has taken its shape from the creator in any which way you want to look at it with out coming to the conclusion yes there was one creator and my name for it is.......Well whatever you are allowed to decide but we as believers like to call him Allah.

First of all, in the Bible it says God made humans in his image, so it is safe to assume from their point of view, God is human-like. Now then getting on to the rest of your argument, the universe was created by the Big Bang, it is the one theory that doesn't have holes in it, the only hole most creationists (people who believe a god/deity) seem to think they've found is that "Well what was before the big bang?" most people fail to argue this, but there was nothing. There no time, no space, nothing. When the Big Bang occurred, earth was slowly over-time made into what it is today, we and probably many MANY MANY organisms in the universe slowly evolved from our little/big planets. Not because some cognitive god/deity put us there, but because we were lucky, not just like winning the lottery lucky, I mean it's likely to be around a 1 in 800 million chance of us landing on this spot. Again most people use that as an argument for "God put the earth where it is, how else would we have landed in this 1 specific spot!" the simple explanation for that is thus: We are here by chance, if conditions were different, we may not have evolved to what we are today, the dominant species could be horses, or cows or anything for that matter that had gotten an evolutionary advantage.

 

[Auratricles]

Hello Auratricles

No human can make you to believe to anything - this is Allah who decides if you are able to believe or not. Read the Quran and think can you open your heart to Islam.



I think we haven´t interest to ask questions about atheism. This is the forum where you (and others) can ask questions and seek knowledge about Islam. You are the most welcome to find more information about that subject from here.

I will read the Qur'an when I have the time, I'm currently studying medicine and health-care so my time is limited. I just added that there as a way of keeping things from getting dull, I didn't mean to make you think I was stealing the point of the forum.

 

[Auratricles]

Greetings Auratricles,

(smile) You know, your name is rather intriguing. I'm afraid my Latin is abysmal, but doesn't your (somewhat anglicized) name mean something like: glory of the golden three? It's a bit curious for an atheist to have such a name. Would you mind sharing why you chose this name (or have I understood it incorrectly)? I find the names people choose tend to reflect something about them. (smile) And I like to know and understand my interlocutors.

May God, the One and Only, Bless you with deepening insights.

Well you are right, it reflects my fascination Ancient Rome culture, I find them intriguing, the name itself was chosen for me by a fellow Ancient Rome fanatic who's knowledge on the subject far supersedes mine. However. He did not give me the meaning of the name, he merely said the following: "If you want to know the meaning of your name, you will need to learn Latin in order to not only understand modern Englishes origins, but also how to read like the ancient Romans did." A quote that has inspired me to begin to learn Latin - only however when I have the time, but it is high on my bucket list.

 

[MuslimInshallah]

First of all, in the Bible it says God made humans in his image, so it is safe to assume from their point of view, God is human-like.

Hello Auratricles,

Thank you for answering about your name. (twinkle) It makes me wonder about your friend. Was he a Christian, by any chance? Because this is an invented name (it does not exist otherwise- I checked to be sure). Patrocles (a real name) means "glory of the father", auro means gold and tri means three...

(smile) Anyway, nice to meet you Aurotricles.

Mmm, regarding your assertion I've quoted above, I don't think you can really use the Bible to "prove" your points on this Forum. Also, I feel you are putting words into Christians' mouths. As you have asserted that you are not a Christian, I'm not sure that this is quite fair. Certainly as a Muslim, I feel that Christian arguments seem to slide in this direction, but I feel we ought to have some knowledgeable Christian input on this point.

As for your assertion that before this universe there was nothing, I feel I must ask you: where did everything come from, then, in your opinion?

May God Bless you with what is best for you.

 

[The-Deist]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rh_GalBsbMY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUoxwNGcRGA

May Allah (swt) guide you to Islam
Aameen

 

[Patrick]

If it is a 1 and 800 million i would say more like 1 and the number for infinite chance for us to be here. That using the combination of not only the earth to have in its conditions but other things. 1 dominate species had to be completely exterminated for us to even have a chance. Even with 1 1000th the amount of animal life that existed at the time of other life living here it would have been to large to even give us an opportunity at life at all. We would have died. When the earth changed all animals were made certain sizes let's say that's evolution. Where mammals where the largest life forms that had a chance to continue foward. If you know none of the animals that proceded at that size were meat eaters. Elephants and whales being the largest land mammal and water living things. Giving us a chance greater where as if it would have been an amphibian geeko or aligator not put into a smaller proportion we would have had serious problems. Yet they were made to the smallest they could have been. If even an ant without mammal reasoning which allways comes with more compasion or understanding would have been at a size of a hippo than once again human life has no chance. These could have all been adaption if you believe so or it could have been the world attempting to go to a higher consciousness that it was originally born from trying to reach.
Now these are some of the conditions if you believe in darwin or evolution that had to take place for human existance. Of coarse on earth there must have been much more. Now the reason I stated the chances of us being here are 1 in infinity is not just the reasoning of the earth's creation but the odds of its placement then of coarse the real reason for the number the fact that the universe was even shaped to begin with. The odds of a big bang event even occurring from absolutely nothing have to be improbable as far as putting a number on an event like that. So I believe it's not 1 in 800 million or billion were here but 1 and a number too large for any of us to actually calculate. I just call the number infinate. The meaning of making man in his image I don't know. Maybe it was the image in the way he saw creation? Which as his creation the way he saw life to take shape if there was to be something of life. I wasn't referring to the believers thinking the big bang was Allah I was referring to the fact no theory can be made without 1 creator. Muslims don't believe he was the big bang scientists believe there single creator was. I was merely referring to the point they can not escape the same belief which is similar to the one creator Muslims believe in. Yes everything has a beginning and an end and no not everyone knew of this. It did take much understanding to realize the sun would die the earth would die and the stars as well. This wasn't something every ancient tribe was understanding just because humans or animals died in there time. The books eventually put it into a simpler context of this truth of all time ending and Allah being the last thing left. As far as this goes I can give you no discussion no one of this earth has seen forever. And this is where faith is implimented. As far as us seeing things as a purpose I think if you be lived in nothing whatever sparked nothing had something in shape. If it was all accidental orbits might have not taken shape it might have been only chaos. With no means of supporting any form of life. If it didn't have a meaning maybe even stars who are alive wouldn't have stuck around too long. It obviously had an intention that this life force should sustain itself in some manner before our version of life should arrive. Evolution is not what you believe it is. People like the Buddha Essa Muhammad had more access to knowledge than I believe we do. I don't see 20000 Buddha's walking the earth. I see us making things trying to understand like Allah does creating machines to carry out our tasks as he did angels. I can not prove to you why you should believe in Allah there were people that Allah showed signs to that did not believe before he decided to seal the prophets. It's too hard with just theories to prove Allah. As we've shown it's much much easier to prove everything else we choose to believe.

 

[sister herb]

I will read the Qur'an when I have the time, I'm currently studying medicine and health-care so my time is limited. I just added that there as a way of keeping things from getting dull, I didn't mean to make you think I was stealing the point of the forum.

My advice is that don´t leave reading the Quran too far. We never know when it is our last breath. This life makes us busy I know but we should make ourselves more busy for hereafter. We (muslims) know that it is the place where we will reside forever and that is a quite long time. laying: Not a little trip only, huh?

The Quran may change your life (or then not but who knows it before). You just have to take the first step and open it.

 

[Patrick]

You also I believe are almost giving our knowledge that we discover a little too much credit. As advanced a computers and simulated machines are getting you have to ask how long would it take to make a world in which things unknowingly could live in it be alive to themselves and those around them but never be able to find out what's outside of it. It's kind of science fictional but it could be possible. I think it is at least. I just dont understand how real we are making things in this way but we couldn't understand that maybe just possibly something created this process first? Something intelligent possibly? I don't see why we should believe we would be so intelligent to make things like this possible but for something outside of our knowledge to do this first? I guess I believe in intelligent life outside of us and if we possibly could even get close to this I don't see why a consciousness higher than all of us couldn't have completed the task a little bigger than we could.

 

[Auratricles]

Hello Auratricles,

Thank you for answering about your name. (twinkle) It makes me wonder about your friend. Was he a Christian, by any chance? Because this is an invented name (it does not exist otherwise- I checked to be sure). Patrocles (a real name) means "glory of the father", auro means gold and tri means three...

(smile) Anyway, nice to meet you Aurotricles.

Mmm, regarding your assertion I've quoted above, I don't think you can really use the Bible to "prove" your points on this Forum. Also, I feel you are putting words into Christians' mouths. As you have asserted that you are not a Christian, I'm not sure that this is quite fair. Certainly as a Muslim, I feel that Christian arguments seem to slide in this direction, but I feel we ought to have some knowledgeable Christian input on this point.

As for your assertion that before this universe there was nothing, I feel I must ask you: where did everything come from, then, in your opinion?

May God Bless you with what is best for you.

When I said that stuff about the Bible, and "their point of view" I was referencing the Christians, not anyone else. He was born into an Atheist family and remains an Atheist to this day. Also I didn't use the Bible as a point, I was merely correcting Patrick about him saying how if you asked Christians to describe him, they wouldn't have an answer, whereas in reality, in their Bible it says that God made humans in his image.

As to your question about where everything came from, I feel this video may suffice as the answer to your question.
youtube . com /watch?v=wNDGgL73ihY

 

[Auratricles]

My advice is that don´t leave reading the Quran too far. We never know when it is our last breath. This life makes us busy I know but we should make ourselves more busy for hereafter. We (muslims) know that it is the place where we will reside forever and that is a quite long time. laying: Not a little trip only, huh?

The Quran may change your life (or then not but who knows it before). You just have to take the first step and open it.

Debating religion is only a hobby for me, I would never give up something more important (my education) to read a book like the Qur'an which ( I hope you don't take offence to this) to me is fiction, but for now, as skeptical as I am, I will eventually get to it, perhaps on a boring weekend or when I have some free time.