They may insult Islam. But I will never insult their religion

[BeTheChange]

I think what brother Ardianto is trying to say is he will not stoop to the level of the individuals who bad mouth religion. This automatically implies that the individual who doesn't retaliate back in the same manner is of 'higher' status and you can argue this to be true (Allah swa knows best)!

Why? Because the individual who controls his tongue in anger and has patience has demonstrated self control and implementation of good knowledge. Alhamdulilah.

In all the books that i have read (correct me if am wrong) i have never read a scripture or a hadith where our Prophet Muhammad PBUH acted in a way to seek revenge. One famous example is the non muslim woman who resided next door to prophet SAW and she used to throw her rubbish on the Prophet SAW path to harm him SAW (narrations of stories may vary but same message). Our Prophet SAW used to ignore this negativity and even cleaned the mess (Allah swa knows best) - This angered the woman a lot and eventually she saw the truth and was affected by Prophet SAW kindness and gentle heart and took the shahada (Allah swa knows best)

So i think the interpretation of how we should act and behave as Muslims differs depending on the individual in question and how they interpret the scriptures. Even the GREATEST scholars in HISTORY varied in their opinions and this is why we have 4 major schools of thoughts in Islam.

It's okay to be different - one may react to a situation with anger, one may react with kindness, one may start crying, one may isolate, one may protest etc but we all have the SAME goal Alhamdulilah. Because we as don't have a universal islamic court system in place it's difficult to implement shariah how it should be implemented - & even the greatest scholars who have dedicated their entire lives to the study of Islam will differ.

I think what am trying to say is as long as our heart is clean and we can justify our actions to Allah swa this is what matters.

May Allah swa protect us all from harm and guide us all the path that pleases HIM alone. Ameen.

 

[جوري]

Like I stated Br/sr
bring it from quran and sunnah
also your inability to apply or understand seerah fully doesn't render it open to different interpretation, rather you not understanding history and context.
Theres a clear delineated difference of folks who just niggle over trifles and those causing civil, social, moral and political Unrest and inciting of hatred and violence!

 

[Zafran]

Even though this is a very famous story, there have been scholars who have pointed out that this narration is actually weak.

Wallahu a'alam.

Salaam

Its from the seerah of the prophet pbuh, I've heard many scholars from different schools of thought talk about this point.

peace

 

[Zafran]

Like I stated Br/sr
bring it from quran and sunnah
also your inability to apply or understand seerah fully doesn't render it open to different interpretation, rather you not understanding history and context.
Theres a clear delineated difference of folks who just niggle over trifles and those causing civil, social, moral and political Unrest and inciting of hatred and violence!

Salaam

Quran and sunnah indeed have to be interpreted from "the people who know" or scholars, - the last time I checked nobody had a monopoly over it.

peace

 

[Zafran]

as I stated trying to kill, dissent, isn't akin to insult.
Arabs were known for chivalry and good manners. Even Abu jahl when he gathered his men to kill the prophet and upon being at his gates said, let's come back in the morning I don't want the Arabs to say that I horrified the women during the night!
Heres the prescribed punishment for insulting!

http://www.dorar.net/enc/aqadia/3589
think it should be a general rule that when speaking about matters Islam we should do so with evidence from Quran and sunnah not innovate- not necessarily addressing you with this comment but the OP
notice the verse from the Quran says don't insult their religion, not they can insult your religion and rather clear that it says so they don't insult yours - it's indeed a grievous thing what's more grievous is that kaffirs managed to remove the gheera from our hearts.
And no bringing people to God isn't the goal- rather saving ones own soul in true submission is!

﴿ يَاأَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا عَلَيْكُمْ أَنفُسَكُمْ لَا يَضُرُّكُمْ مَنْ ضَلَّ إِذَا اهْتَدَيْتُمْ إِلَى اللَّهِ مَرْجِعُكُمْ جَمِيعًا فَيُنَبِّئُكُمْ بِمَا كُنتُمْ تَعْمَلُونَ(105) ﴾​

Salaam

Quran and sunnah as I said are not lay peoples tool, this is a public forum not a scholars discussion room. Its the Job of Muslims to give Dawah, not "saving" people Allah swt does that. Of course Islam is about one submitting nobody denying that.

Your article is in Arabic that's a bit weird posting it on a English speaking forum???

 

[جوري]

Salaam

Quran and sunnah as I said are not lay peoples tool, this is a public forum not a scholars discussion room. Its the Job of Muslims to give Dawah, not "saving" people Allah swt does that. Of course Islam is about one submitting nobody denying that.

Your article is in Arabic that's a bit weird posting it on a English speaking forum???

It's a job of every muslim to seek islamic knowledge and it's made obligatory.
If you know one thing well you should share it
ad'deen naseeha
And so is enjoining what's good and forbidding evil and a grievous punishment falls upon the people if they fail to do so I.e even if you know just 10% Islam and don't see it implemented or see it lied about or distorted and do nothing about it you'll be punished!
قال عليه الصلاة والسلام:

((كيف بكم إذا لم تأمروا بالمعروف ولم تنهوا عن المنكر؟ قالوا: أو كائن هذا يا رسول الله؟ قال: وأشد منه سيكون، قالوا: وما أشد منه؟ قال: كيف بكم إذا أمرتم بالمنكر وأمرتم عن المعروف؟ قالوا: أو كائن ذلك يا رسول الله؟ قال: وأشد منه سيكون، قال: كيف بكم إذا أصبح المعروف منكرا والمنكر معروفاً؟))
it has come to the point where what's the divine writ is plainly wrong in the views of people!
and here's the hadith with regards to that.
you're fond quoting things which allegedly umar IBN ilkhtaab did or said he also said
' learn Arabic for it will teach you wisdom'
and That's the language of the Quran and language of those seeking knowledge in matters ISLAM.
So I am not sure why being challenged on what's written seems more upsetting to many of you and taken personally over insults to the prophet or more upsetting than despots walking around in protests meant to insult the prophet under some disgusting guise of 'freedom of speech'
Abdullah of Jordan walks arm in arm to Netynyahu in a March sends his pilots to drop cluster bombs and white phosphorous over children and yet somehow people side with the aggressor because that's what is popular and people do it and say it so it must be correct it must be the norm and those who resist it are so obviously evil!
لا حول ولا قوة الا بالله​

 

[Zafran]

It's a job of every muslim to seek islamic knowledge and it's made obligatory.
If you know one thing well you should share it
ad'deen naseeha
And so is enjoining what's good and forbidding evil and a grievous punishment falls upon the people if they fail to do so I.e even if you know just 10% Islam and don't see it implemented or see it lied about or distorted and do nothing about it you'll be punished?
قال عليه الصلاة والسلام:

((كيف بكم إذا لم تأمروا بالمعروف ولم تنهوا عن المنكر؟ قالوا: أو كائن هذا يا رسول الله؟ قال: وأشد منه سيكون، قالوا: وما أشد منه؟ قال: كيف بكم إذا أمرتم بالمنكر وأمرتم عن المعروف؟ قالوا: أو كائن ذلك يا رسول الله؟ قال: وأشد منه سيكون، قال: كيف بكم إذا أصبح المعروف منكرا والمنكر معروفاً؟))
and here's the hadith with regards to that.
youre fond quoting things which allegedly umar IBN ilkhtaab did or said he also said
'm learn Arabic for it will teach you wisdom'
and That's thr language of the Quran and language of those seeking knowledge in matters ISLAM.
So I am not sure why being challenged on what's written seems more upsetting to many of you over insults to the prophet or more upsetting than despots walking around in protests meant to insult the prophet under some disgusting guise of 'freedom of speech'
Abdullah of Jordan walks next to Netynyahu in a March sends his pilots to drop cluster bombs and white phosphorous over children and yet somehow people side with what's wrong because it's popular and people do it and say it so it must be correct it must be the norm!
لا حول ولا قوة الا بالله​

salaam

Ok I'll take your advice on board

peace.

 

[Johnathan]

One thing that makes me happy is having friends. Alhamdulillah, I have many friends, and my friends are not only Muslims, but non-Muslims too. I also have met and acquainted with few people from other nations. They are very kind and friendly.

Meet, interact, and be friend with people from other nations is my dream.

Few years ago when I started to use internet I felt I have found the way to make my dream come true without leave my home. So I started to join in discussion in internet, but immediately I found something that shocking me, Islamophobia.

I've ever joined in a cultural forum. I hoped I could discuss about culture and tradition, but there were people who used that forum to insult Islam. I went to other sites, but again, I found there are many insult toward Islam. And even sometime I am insulted too just because I am Muslim.

Meet, interact, and be friend with people from other nations is my dream. But now I am even not dare to say that I am from Indonesia since people know that Indonesia is a country that has largest number of Muslims.

Islamophobia. Yes, I really feel it, and I am so sad. I just want to be friend with them, but why they see me as their enemy?.

Perhaps someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Muslims prohibited from making friends with Christians and Jews, and if a Muslim does befriend a Christian or Jew doesn't he become "of" or "one of" us?
http://www.islamawakened.com/Quran/5/51/default.htm

 

[greenhill]

Have to look this up for certainty, but I believe it is more specific than that. If we cannot be friends with non Muslims, then how are we to show an example of how the deen is lived?

I think it has more to do with not being allied with non Muslim in seeking protection.

eace:

 

[Johnathan]

Have to look this up for certainty, but I believe it is more specific than that. If we cannot be friends with non Muslims, then how are we to show an example of how the deen is lived?

I think it has more to do with not being allied with non Muslim in seeking protection.

eace:

Try clicking on the link. The majority of translations at that site use the term "friends", and most of them appear to be pretty clear on the matter, but since I don't read Arabic I can't know if most of those English translations are good or not.

 

[greenhill]

Let not the believers take the disbelievers as Auliya (supporters, helpers, etc.) instead of the believers, and whoever does that will never be helped by Allah in any way, except if you indeed fear a danger from them. And Allah warns you against Himself (His Punishment), and to Allah is the final return. (Quran 3:28)

This is what I found in respect of what I was referring to. (I don't speak arabic too). :hmm:

eace:

 

[Johnathan]

In all the books that i have read (correct me if am wrong) i have never read a scripture or a hadith where our Prophet Muhammad PBUH acted in a way to seek revenge.

Perhaps not for his own behalf, but I understand that when Islam's limits or legal bindings were transgressed, he would take revenge.

 

[Johnathan]

Let not the believers take the disbelievers as Auliya (supporters, helpers, etc.) instead of the believers, and whoever does that will never be helped by Allah in any way, except if you indeed fear a danger from them. And Allah warns you against Himself (His Punishment), and to Allah is the final return. (Quran 3:28)

This is what I found in respect of what I was referring to. (I don't speak arabic too). :hmm:

eace:

I suppose you could cherry pick, to serve your own desires, but according to the most widely quoted (in the U.S.) Yusuf Ali translation, for 5:51:

Sura 5:51 "O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily God guideth not a people unjust."

 

[جوري]

I suppose you could cherry pick from the list at that link, to serve your own desires, but according to the most widely quoted (in the U.S.) Yusuf Ali translation:

"O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily God guideth not a people unjust."

Well I speak arabic and therefore don't care for translations or what you consider an authority!
The verse means to take them for allies in governance you know the way saudi and the rest are allied with the U.S to bomb muslims in Iraq and Syria.
indeed the ****ation of :Allah: shall befall all those who do
so hopefully folks can wake up to the fact that their governments are nothing but allies and lackeys!

Btw YusufAli is a Shiite what strikes me as odd is how they named America 'the big satan' yet the US doesn't bother bomb them of course not they're certainly bed fellows along with the colonial settler cockroach state of Israel!
all the best,

 

[ardianto]

I suppose you could cherry pick from the list at that link, to serve your own desires, but according to the most widely quoted (in the U.S.) Yusuf Ali translation:

"O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily God guideth not a people unjust."

Awliya (singular: wali) is not friends in common meaning, but allies (singular: ally). That verse refer to a case which a Muslim secretly made alliance with Jews without telling prophet.

A Muslim can acquainted and do activities with Jew or Christian as long as still follow guidance in relationship with non-Muslims. I can play football with my Christian friend, can go fishing together. But I cannot pray together with him, cannot involved in his religious festival.

 

[Johnathan]

Sorry for my late edit, as I didn't realize you two posted, but I noticed later that greenhill was apparently posting a different verse.

 

[Johnathan]

Well I speak arabic and therefore don't care for translations or what you consider an authority!

I quote Yusuf Ali because it is the English version online Muslims are most familiar with, and thus it generally precludes me having to waste time with a cacophony of "that's a bad translation" type of responses.:hmm:

There are 31 English translations on that list, described as "generally accepted". Most of them use the word "friends". Is there a version on that list that in your opinion you would recommend I use?
http://www.islamawakened.com/Quran/5/51/default.htm

The verse means to take them for allies in governance you know the way saudi and the rest are allied with the U.S to bomb muslims in Iraq and Syria.
indeed the ****ation of :Allah: shall befall all those who do
so hopefully folks can wake up to the fact that their governments are nothing but allies and lackeys!

Btw YusufAli is a Shiite what strikes me as odd is how they named America 'the big satan' yet the US doesn't bother bomb them of course not they're certainly bed fellows along with the colonial settler cockroach state of Israel!
all the best,

 

[جوري]

I quote Yusuf Ali because it is the English version Muslims are most familiar with and thus it generally precludes me having to waste time with a cacophony of "that's a bad translation" type of responses.:hmm:

There are 31 English translations on that list, described as "generally accepted". Are any of them a better translation for me to use in your opinion?
http://www.islamawakened.com/Quran/5/51/default.htm

as you may have already cleverly figured from multiple posts I don't care for what you take as an authority.
a translation is just that it's not scholarship
American converts tend to prefer Mohammed Asad while british one prefer Marduke pickthall, those who prefer Yusuf Ali do so because his translation is less archaic more close to their everyday language.
if you want to learn etymology you use baheth.net if you want to learn unadulterated Quran you learn Arabic
indeed an example of complete transgression against that verse can be found in the entire muslim world kowtowing and obsequiousness to the west when at one point they were the super power over the world and that's what becomes of those who take you for allies.
hope two posts on the matter are Sufficient for you I tire of repeating myself!

 

[Johnathan]

as you may have already cleverly figured from multiple posts I don't care for what you take as an authority.
a translation is just that it's not scholarship
American converts tend to prefer Mohammed Asad ....

Perhaps a bit more blunt than Yusuf Ali in some regards which made me hesitant to quote it.
For that verse there isn't any material difference between the 3 English translations since they all use the word "friends" pretty much the same way.

.... while british one prefer Marduke pickthall, those who prefer Yusuf Ali do so because his translation is less archaic more close to their everyday language.
if you want to learn etymology you use baheth.net if you want to learn unadulterated Quran you learn Arabic
indeed an example of complete transgression against that verse can be found in the entire muslim world kowtowing and obsequiousness to the west when at one point they were the super power over the world and that's what becomes of those who take you for allies.

I thought it was the Battle of Tours France that began the end of that Islamic hegemony, rather than because Muslims were trying to make friends or allies of non-Muslims.

hope two posts on the matter are Sufficient for you I tire of repeating myself!

 

[جوري]

Nope any adulteration to the laws of God renders folks factions hating one another:

​

Sahih International
Say, "He is the [one] Able to send upon you affliction from above you or from beneath your feet or to confuse you [so you become] sects and make you taste the violence of one another." Look how We diversify the signs that they might understand.




But it isn't over until it's over and folks are slowly returning to Islam in shaa Allah - the need is to focus on quality Muslims not quantity Muslims each bringing in his whims to infiltrate and weaken from within!