They may insult Islam. But I will never insult their religion

[keiv]

Perhaps someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Muslims prohibited from making friends with Christians and Jews, and if a Muslim does befriend a Christian or Jew doesn't he become "of" or "one of" us?

Try clicking on the link. The majority of translations at that site use the term "friends", and most of them appear to be pretty clear on the matter, but since I don't read Arabic I can't know if most of those English translations are good or not.

I suppose you could cherry pick, to serve your own desires, but according to the most widely quoted (in the U.S.) Yusuf Ali translation, for 5:51:

Sura 5:51 "O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily God guideth not a people unjust."

You're wrong and were already corrected, but I thought I'd point out that in the link you have provided, there are translations of the term being used as "protectors" "sponsors" "allies". You seemed to have done some cherry picking yourself to try and serve your own desires (you know, the very thing you accused others of doing). With all those different translations plus the many other verses in the Quran which speak on such matters and with a little bit of common sense, the answer is pretty clear.

 

[Johnathan]

Nope any adulteration to the laws of God renders folks factions hating one another:

Aren't you effectively indicating that the ultimate arbiters of Islam, would be the ones most willing to fight and slay others, who hold a different understanding of the law?
Wouldn't the most powerful always be the ones that determine what is and is not "adulteration"?

​

Sahih International
Say, "He is the [one] Able to send upon you affliction from above you or from beneath your feet or to confuse you [so you become] sects and make you taste the violence of one another." Look how We diversify the signs that they might understand.

But it isn't over until it's over and folks are slowly returning to Islam in shaa Allah - the need is to focus on quality Muslims not quantity Muslims each bringing in his whims to infiltrate and weaken from within!

 

[جوري]

Koreans don't call anyone friends of we are niggling over the bones they've thrown- they're not owed love nor friendship whats disheartening though while you're busy making apologies for translations lest God forbid you hurt their feelers, they've built their bases, brought their armies, unraveled your creed, placed their despots to rule over you and stolen your lands and robbed your ummah of what's rightfully hers!

 

[Johnathan]

You're wrong and were already corrected, but I thought I'd point out that in the link you have provided, there are translations of the term being used as "protectors" "sponsors" "allies". You seemed to have done some cherry picking yourself to try and serve your own desires (you know, the very thing you accused others of doing). With all those different translations plus the many other verses in the Quran which speak on such matters and with a little bit of common sense, the answer is pretty clear.

Then with your interpretation I'm guessing you're no fan of guys like Anjem Choudary.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSGyzHC1m04
But between disagreeing Muslims which would be the ultimate arbiters of Islam?
The friendly peace loving ones that believe it's OK to befriend Christians and Jews, or the more violence prone ones that disagree with them?

 

[جوري]

Aren't you effectively indicating that the ultimate arbiters of Islam, would be the ones most willing to fight and slay others, who hold a different understanding of the law?
Wouldn't the most powerful always be the ones that determine what is and is not "adulteration"?

The punishment fits the crime even in the 'civilized west' those who caused sedition and were accused of treason were sentenced to death you may Google ethyl and Julius Rosenberg.
the law in the west is born of the imagination of perverse white men loosely based on laws of your middle eastern God.
You pretty much shut any opposition often without trial and simply on thought crimes then chime later about freedom of speech while in same breath passing anti defamation and libel laws to suit one group.
Believe it or not neither Afghanistan nor Iraq or any other region has invaded you- you however invaded them and defining what's good and moral double standards given you adhere to none of it yourself.

 

[greenhill]

Yusof Ali, a Shiite is something I never knew.

 

[جوري]

Yusof Ali, a Shiite is something I never knew.

He was a student of another famous translator he did mostly a good job but along with pooya Ali perversed the comments on many verses often adding their own rendition on 'ahel Al byet'
outside of that he did a semi decent job and credit should be given where it's due- if you've that background about him you should go in with supplemental sources but overall he didn't do a poor job he didn't do a great one either
and :Allah: :swt: knows best

 

[Johnathan]

Aren't you effectively indicating that the ultimate arbiters of Islam, would be the ones most willing to fight and slay others, who hold a different understanding of the law?
Wouldn't the most powerful always be the ones that determine what is and is not "adulteration"?

The punishment fits the crime.....

So then the ultimate arbiter of Islam will indeed come down, to whichever group assembles the biggest army, in support of their group's interpretation of the law?
That is to say, whichever group gets to punish whatever other group, in protecting the law from what in their opinion is "adulteration".
Your post, as well as simple logic and Islam as evidenced around the world today, would certainly seem to support that conclusion.

 

[ardianto]

But between disagreeing Muslims which would be the ultimate arbiters of Islam?
The friendly peace loving ones that believe it's OK to befriend Christians and Jews, or the more violence prone ones that disagree with them?

For the objective answer you cannot ask this question to Muslims, but must ask non-Muslims.

So, which one you think deserve to be the arbiters of Islam?.

Don'y worry Johnathan, whatever your answer, I will not angry.

 

[جوري]

So then the ultimate arbiter of Islam will indeed come down, to whichever group assembles the biggest army, in support of their group's interpretation of the law?
That is to say, whichever group gets to punish whatever other group, in protecting the law from what in their opinion is "adulteration".
Your post, as well as simple logic and Islam as evidenced around the world today, would certainly seem to support that conclusion.

Simpletons draw satisfaction from overly simple conclusions they concoct in their own psyche- indeed a man's tongue is the revealer of what hides his heart as does his visage
Big armies and soldiery and artillery is a western thing- as we say in arabic:
اذا ذهبت التقوى فالنصر للأقوى
When piety is missing then victory is granted to he most prepared.
God makes victorious the righteous all the need is to follow his commands
moses had a staff, Noah a boat in such case God's soldiers were instruments in the hands of the pious!

this is simply the age where God divides the two camps to one with hypocrisy and no faith and one in absolute faith no hypocrisy if you read the last thread I started on as'hab al'ukhdood you'd have learned the entire pious population was tested and killed before God's victory was granted.
You can mire in that American sniper White wash to feel better about your brand of slaughter in the end God's plan shall prevail!

​

Sahih International
And We have not made the keepers of the Fire except angels. And We have not made their number except as a trial for those who disbelieve - that those who were given the Scripture will be convinced and those who have believed will increase in faith and those who were given the Scripture and the believers will not doubt and that those in whose hearts is hypocrisy and the disbelievers will say, "What does Allah intend by this as an example?" Thus does Allah leave astray whom He wills and guides whom He wills. And none knows the soldiers of your Lord except Him. And mention of the Fire is not but a reminder to humanity.



indeed none knows the soldiers of your Lord but he- fear thrown in your heart and cowardice is a soldier as Moses' staff was a soldier against the pharaoh and his armies, and may fear accompany all the wrong doers and disbelievers!

 

[Johnathan]

Simpletons draw satisfaction from overly simple conclusions they concoct in their own psyche- indeed a man's tongue is the revealer of what hides his heart as does his visage
Big armies and soldiery and artillery is a western thing- as we say in arabic:
اذا ذهبت التقوى فالنصر للأقوى

Come on, really? How is it a "western thing" when the imperialistic conquest of the Islamic first Jihad overran northern Africa and continued on all the way up into France and Austria?
Muslims making friends with non-Muslims?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tours

When piety is missing then victory is granted to he most prepared.
God makes victorious the righteous all the need is to follow his commands
moses had a staff, Noah a boat in such case God's soldiers were instruments in the hands of the pious!

this is simply the age where God divides the two camps to one with hypocrisy and no faith and one in absolute faith no hypocrisy.......

So which "camp" would Shiites put themselves in?

 

[جوري]

Come on, really? How is it a "western thing" when the imperialistic conquest of the Islamic first Jihad overran northern Africa and continued on all the way up into France and Austria?
Muslims making friends with non-Muslims?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tours


So which "camp" would Shiites put themselves in?

we are meant to spread Islam - I understand your religion was only meant for jews:

/matthew/15-24Then Jesus said to the woman, "I was sent only to help God's lost sheep--the people of Israel."
nonetheless no one has rendered Africa in worse shape in division and strife save for your christians
unfortunately, you didn't find anyone fit to be loved by God and saved thus wiped out entire populations of indigenous folks whether in US or Australia or anywhere else you go. As I recall because they'd no souls heck you even kidnap folksfrom their coubtries to prove them apes per your evolution theories:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ota_Benga
a more wicked invaders I've not encountered
do you really wanna go down that path dear shill?

As For Shiites I don't care how they classify themselves - former Safavids fire worshippers who accepted Islam to infiltrate and deviate it!

all the best

 

[Johnathan]

For the objective answer you cannot ask this question to Muslims, but must ask non-Muslims.

So, which one you think deserve to be the arbiters of Islam?

Since I am not a Muslim it doesn't matter who I think "deserve" to be the arbiters of Islam. What should matter to Muslims, is who other Muslims think are the ones, that deserve to be the ultimate arbiters of Islam.
For instance it would seem that Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi may think he and his crew are the ones that deserve to be the ultimate arbiters of Islam.

“The greatest answer to this question is in the Qur’an, where Allah speaks about the nearby enemy – those Muslims who have become infidels – as they are more dangerous than those which were already infidels,”

If you disagree with al-Baghdadi and his crew, would you hesitate to go over to Iraq and express the reasons for your disagreement, directly with him? If you would hesitate to, why would that be?

Don'y worry Johnathan, whatever your answer, I will not angry.

 

[ardianto]

Since I am not a Muslim it doesn't matter who I think "deserve" to be the arbiters of Islam. What should matter to Muslims, is who other Muslims think are the ones, that deserve to be the ultimate arbiters of Islam.
For instance it would seem that Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi may think he and his crew are the ones that deserve to be the ultimate arbiters of Islam.

“The greatest answer to this question is in the Qur’an, where Allah speaks about the nearby enemy – those Muslims who have become infidels – as they are more dangerous than those which were already infidels,”

If you disagree with al-Baghdadi and his crew, would you hesitate to go over to Iraq and express the reasons for your disagreement, directly with him? If you would hesitate to, why would that be?

It would be better for the world if I am still alive. So I can active in campaign to build religious tolerance, than I commit suicide through telling my disagreement with ISIS directly to al-Baghdadi.

They see me as the enemy who greater than you because they regard me as apostate.

ISIS already know that mostly of Muslims disagree with them. Few Muslims have told their disagreement directly, and ISIS executed all of them.

 

[AmericanMuslim]

That is very wise of you to do. I wish other people had the same view point as you do, it would make the world much more peaceful. What bothers me is when Muslims (Specifically sisters who wear the hijab) get harassed by the Islamaphobes. They get called 'terrorists' and they are looked down upon in American society. They think every Muslim is an extremist. It is heart-breaking, honestly. Because a lot of sisters are really nice! I am nice! Whenever any of my non-Muslim friends have a question about Islam, I am more than happy to answer them! Or if they have a misconception, I help them see the truth. Whenever there is a homeless person, I give them money, and smile at them. I don't treat anyone like dirt, no matter their financial status. I try to be nice as I can to everyone around me (As long as it's halal). But I don't appreciate being titled as a terrorist just because of terrorists who may practice the same religion I do. I am not them! I am a peaceful little Muslimah who likes to make friends with everyone. That's it. I'm not a terrorist. Yet, people don't listen. May Allah help them find the truth, Ameen.

 

[keiv]

Then with your interpretation I'm guessing you're no fan of guys like Anjem Choudary.

But between disagreeing Muslims which would be the ultimate arbiters of Islam?
The friendly peace loving ones that believe it's OK to befriend Christians and Jews, or the more violence prone ones that disagree with them?

I never interpreted anything. I was merely pointing out the irony of your posts. Also, don't ask me what my opinions are of this person or that as that really has no relevance on the subject. You probably have an arsenal of links from anti Islamic sites which have, as you say, cherry picked certain ayat from the Quran, but have you actually read the surahs in which they came out of, including the one you linked? You can't come in here and ask a question telling people to correct you if you're wrong then turn around and argue that answer given to you because it isn't what you wanted to hear and/or it goes against what your church teaches you.