Religion of Peace?

it is a faulty understandng to take "religion" as an isolated compartment of life where you pray to God personally and run government according to the corrupt ways abhorred by God, but somehow justify it all by separating "church" and "state" so thay the "state" with it's armed forces and monopoly on violence carries out punishments based on UN-Godly statutes while sanctioning strip clubs and usury, and the "church" claims exclusion via total abstention.
it is a dichotomy, especially when one considers in depth the meanings of the parables and statements -even in the new testament.
if the human body is the church and state of being which is the Kingdom of God, it puts all aspects of responsibility (mosque, state, self, community) upon the son of man (Adam), the body is not a kingdom divided but flesh of man, word of God and spirit of God combined.
to attempt to separate between those aspects would ensure that such a kingdom falls, if every individual falls in such a fashion, the day of judgement would be upon us.

verily religion (way of life) in God's sight is Islam.
we don't preach non-violence in the Mosque whilst our president electrocutes, gasses, and lethally injects people, we establish the rule of God as prescribed in the Quran and sunnah , the only time we refrain from enforcing a statute is when we know that that is what God wants and will please Him - such as the suspension of stoning in the case of Mary the chaste, or the cutting down of trees in the case of Banu Nadir.
or the case where Prophet Ibrahim pbuh was going to sacrifice his own son because he thought that was what God wanted, and sacrificed a lamb/sheep/goat/lawful cattle when he knew that it was a replacement from God and that it was all a test of submission.
He overcame Satan by the blood of the lamb though he loved not his own life or that of his own son above God - even unto death.
 
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hi,

Luke 19:27 jesus was telling a story.

i agree individual quotes from religious text taken out of context can give a misleading picture.



in fact jesus taught to love enemies.

here in 9:29, 36 (al tawbah) . it is commanding to fight. it looks like message of violence not a message of peace. why fight based somebody's faith?

what is the meaning of 9:29, 36 according to you?
 
i am speaking totally sincerely when i assure you that the previous two posts of mine answered the questions for any person endued with intelligence and that you appear to be baiting.

in fact jesus taught to love enemies.
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you know very well that the above is advice given to temper the rigid law of retaliation practised by the jews of the time.
God confirms the law of retaliation in the Quran and also gives advice to forgo the right when it is conducive to do so.

if you still prefer to stubbornly argue, i theoretically advise anybody who claims to be christian to demand that their leaders destroy all weapons and fire all police and soldiery, if anyone claiming to be christian takes up the sword, that he/she should be killed by the sword.
see if it works, if you acknlowledge that it doesn't then acknowledge that the previous tests are superseded by the revelation of the Quran.

you can't just install service pack 2 by itself, you need a working operating system to install it on.
think not that i have come to void the law but rather to fulfil it.
even then, the previous operating system became vulnerable to major hacks and was rendered obsolete and was superseded by an updated full and final version which has updates, cancellation of jizya, abolition of cross worship, etc.

***
Lo! I come unto you with a sign from your Lord.
Lo! I fashion for you out of clay the likeness of a bird, and I breathe into it and it is a bird by Allah’s leave.
I heal him who was born blind, and the leper, and I raise the dead, by Allah’s leave.
And I announce to you what you eat and what you store up in your houses.
Lo! herein verily is a portent for you if you are to be believers.
And (I come) confirming that which was before me of the Torah, and to make lawful some of that which was forbidden unto you.
I come unto you with a sign from your Lord, so keep your duty to Allah and obey me.
Lo! Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is a straight path.
*(Qur’an 3: 49-51).
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2Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember*that*which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid*wait*for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.*3Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
1 Samuel 15
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Operating systems previous to the Quran are disowned by the trademark Owner and no longer receive support, rather many of their features as exampled above are now illegal.

That was a people that hath passed away.
They shall reap the fruit of what they did, and ye of what ye do!
Of their merits there is no question in your case
Quran 2:141
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The verse from the chapter "repentance" revealed by God which you quoted above confirms that idolatry is a crime, just as it was a crime from the time Adam was placed upon earth, a crime when the people of Noah were destroyed, a crime when the ten commandments were revealed, a crime when Moses threw down the tablets and commanded the israelites to kill each other, a crime when Abraham broke them, a crime when God made ezekiel dig through a wall, a crime when herod tried to install a statue near the house of the Lord at beth El and was prevented from doing so by the advice that it would push the Israelites into the camp of the zealots, and shall be a crime until the last day.
On the scale of crimes, it is amongst the most henious and is something which provokes the jealousy and wrath of God unless refrained from.
get it?

now please finish reading the Quran and then pose your questions, that way you will be able read it without false bias and indignation, will be more enlightened and less prone to rejecting the truth out of pride.

let not a split with me make you reject the guidance that God has updated for you and prescribed upon you.
 
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BelieverOfTruth said:
Greetings,

I have seen so many terrible acts done in the name of Islam. I fully realise that many Muslims are against these acts, and I am grateful for that. But, when I read about Muhammad and the terrible things that he committed - particularly against the Jews, how can one claim that Islam is a religion of peace. More specifically, is Islam a religion of peace towards Jews, Christians, Infidels?

I have read the Quran, I have read the verses that are not so favourable towards the Jews - Surah 5:64, 7:166, 5:60, 2:65 and there are others. Muhammed truly hated the Jews, he called them apes and pigs, committed genocide against certain Jewish tribes, and that hatred lives on to this day. Why the hatred? Jesus taught the complete opposite. He taught us to love our enemies, Muhammed taught us to hate our enemies. Hatred does not bring peace, only love can achieve that.I believe it is so important that one loves first, even ones enemies, so that peace can be achieved, so that mistakes can be forgiven, but all I see in Islam is hatred. I can never accept a religion which preaches hatred.

An explanation to the above would be most welcome, I do not wish to be confrontational, after all we are all seeking the same thing - truth :)

Tom
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Well the Christians have not been pro Jewish and peaceful throughout history either. And you have to put things in context, the Jews he disliked were the bad ones. The trouble is you are getting caught up with labels. The USA is the worst warmongering and murdering state in history but not all the Americans are evil. Let's say the Prophet was here today in the Middle East and being bombed and droned and given a really hard time by the USA. What would he say about Americans?

It is very hard to be peaceful when you are under attack. Islam is peaceful not pacifist.
 
hi all,

slowly understanding your points...:statisfie

you guys have more knowledge than me. but still i just want to clarify things.

jesus said love your enemies. i think it is practical. as an individual person i should not retaliate and pray for my enemies.

when it comes to governmental level, what should we do? i never thought of it. thanks for bringing that in to my attention. will i try to find answer for that.

American government has lot of good things ;Dand did lot of bad things :embarrass

usually everyone in world know only about their bad side but they have done good works too.

not all americans are bad, majority is doing evil stuffs. but there is a minority which is huge in number lives according to scripture. they do good works a lot. lot of christian missionaries are from america even today. they do a holy life.

majority of americans are gone too bad that is sad part. there are many in other parts of world who try to copy that which is sad. what about philippianes majority are evil. what about dubai citizens many do sexual immorality. evil is there everywhere whatever religion they do. in india hindhus are doing much evil nowadays. it is evil time. not just americans. but i would say americans are more advanced in doing evil things. :omg:

i did read little more of quran today. it is so different from bible.

vipin
 
i still dont understand why do you people have to hate jews even if they are bad? it is hard for us christians to understand that philosophy. we have no hatred towards any religious group. we dont look it that way at all. i have lot of muslim friend. but only recently i took islam serious and started to read quran. it even mentions jews christains specifically. reminds torment in hell repeadtedly. says that christain and jews will reject it and show hard heartedness.

it is so strange language for me.
 
Abz2000 said:
you know very well that the above is advice given to temper the rigid law of retaliation practised by the jews of the time.
God confirms the law of retaliation in the Quran and also gives advice to forgo the right when it is conducive to do so.

if you still prefer to stubbornly argue, i theoretically advise anybody who claims to be christian to demand that their leaders destroy all weapons and fire all police and soldiery, if anyone claiming to be christian takes up the sword, that he/she should be killed by the sword.
see if it works, if you acknlowledge that it doesn't then acknowledge that the previous tests are superseded by the revelation of the Quran.
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hi abz,

we have right to defend ourselves. we have no right to retaliate. we have no right to hate. if a christian nation is formed, definitely an army is required to defend it. we are told to love enemy. that means we cannot just make war or be hatred because of their deeds to us. that is the meaning. in the past many wars had happen because of enemity. atleast according to the teachings of jesus we cannot make war out of hatredness. as a christain now, we are supposed to love our enemies. make friendship with those who hurt us.

thanks
vipin
 
what happens to turning the other cheek when a nation attacks you?
 
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You have to remember that "love your enemy" was about the Jews dealing with the Roman Empire. When dealing with such a formidable foe love is the strongest weapon. If you fight them your whole tribe gets crucified and a reigning empire must have God on it's side to be so successful.
 
@ Abz2000 You seem to have a problem with nationalism, but you can't get more nationalistic than the Arabs and what is wrong with that?
 
You'd have to look to the kuffar as the source of nationalism then lay the blame at their door.
The Arabs had all but thrown off the shackles of nationalism under the united banner of Islam up until the time when the Rothschild controlled colonialist kafir hordes installed puppet regimes and puppet media empires with the condition of departing from the caliphate and running proxy wh0re fiefdoms, the transition of contents in the Arab magazines should give you an idea of how they worked it.
They appear to have utilized the age long tool of manipulating men with women, and women with new fashions and gossip columns, they appear to have used their research into the nature of females in the fact that they tend to follow projected trends and fashions more effectively than men - and attacked the psyche long before they took over the peninsula.


a classic example is al-fatat magazine by hind nawfal,


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Fatat_(magazine) (magazine)

these lot look like they come straight out of bullingdon club or skull and bones.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Fatat (al-fatat movement)

al 'ahd society
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covenant_Society

recent examples of how they worked are "frati neri p2" (vatican monks of darkness)

also punch into google: black white green red flag


one piece of advice, screw the ides of march, beware of bullhorn jones!!!
he won't give you solutions, just problems.

 
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[MENTION=30946]Abz2000[/MENTION] So do you think the Palestinians should drop their nationalistic stance and leave Israel to grow and prosper? Would it be best if they dropped their tribal pride and evaporated into the world and maybe if they are really lucky they might get a job cleaning toilets for a fat American. Why do they need a nation, why can't they be good "global citizens"? Why don't they buy the cultural Marxism of international Jewry?
 
I have done as lot of reading in the past few weeks and I have formed the following views:

Muhammad was a tribal leader at a time when war between tribes was a way of life, literally a way of life; if one tribe had it and the other tribe wanted it they fought each other for it. It seems reasonable to presume that he and the other people of that time would presume that way of life would always be. From what I have read, the Quran describes a way of life, a way of living for those times i.e. the 6th century, fighting, killing, taking slaves and a mentality of us and them - dar al Islam and Dar al Harb. The problem is that Muslims must believe that the Quran is the unaltered words of God for mankind for all time and prescribes that Muslims adhere to that 6th century way of life (notwithstanding that the Quran was re-written by Uthman who destroyed the original!).

The next point on this topic I offer comes from reading and life experience.
It is clear that any group of people (nation of people e.g. North Korea) when gathered together and isolated can be taught and made to believe anything, absolutely anything. And, people want to hear views that support what they want to believe and will pick out the bits that support what they want to believe and ignore the things that argue against what they want to believe. And, Islam decrees that Muslims must isolate themselves from others and only live amongst other Muslims so that they are not exposed to other views. An example of that isolation is a 'sticky' thread on this forum called 'Islam Muslims and Violence' where someone has gathered together questions asked about Islam and violence and collected responses from 'scholars.' The Muslims on this forum reading that thread will believe that those scholarly views support the suggestion that Islam is a religion of peace, I read it and those scholarly replies with verses from the Quran supported the suggestion that Islam was NOT a religion of peace. (Unless you accept the Muslim concept of peace being that of submission to Islam or die (and go to hell)).
 
You and your north korea examples. The same can be applied to great britain and america and it's views of being an 'upright christian' or an atheist and feeling you're so called 'enlightened'

You clearly need to do A LOT MORE reading and I question where you were doing your reading because in Islam tribalism, racism and nationalism are rejected, even if some Muslims ignorantly still partake in it today.

The quran does not describe how to live in the 6th century it describes how to LIVE period. Statistically in the UK, British university educated women are the highest of those embracing Islam. Apparently they are in the 6th century according to your skewed and limited views.

Reading and studying led me to islam and it's got nothing to do with the 6th century, rather with the beauty and wholesome nature of Islam, it's a complete way of life and it doesnt' matter who you are, where you're from or when you're from or how old you are.
 
Ahmed2014 said:
Reading and studying led me to islam and it's got nothing to do with the 6th century, rather with the beauty and wholesome nature of Islam.
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I'd be grateful if you would send a copy of the stuff you've been reading and studying to Boko Haram, ISIL, The Taliban, Al Qaeda, Al Shabab, The Ayotolah of Iran and every other lunatic running around chopping of heads. Why have they all got different copies of the Quran than your peaceful one?
 
Muhammad (pbuh) wasn't really a tribal leader. He didn't lead a group of people to the point of revelation when he was in his forties, and even then, did not have a tribal based following. If you are gonna rebuttal, at least use your words better. He did not have any position of power in any way before his community formed. He was born into a tribe, then orphaned, and lived without becoming a leader of any sorts for forty years. After the long toils of persecution, he gained a city to hold his community. Hardly seems like the plan, a leader would have thought of by himself if he wanted to gain power.

Even if you move that piece aside, there is nothing in the Quran that would make me associate it with the 6th century and not the 7th, 8th, 14th, 19th, or even current century, since nothing in the Quran that referred to things present in that time, has not been present at this time. And what does destroying the oldest Quran, even mean. Do you even have any source for that? The oldest Quran we currently have and know of is most likely to be between 568 and 645 ad (which is a neat find in itself). Uthman (ra) became caliph in 644.

Then there is the point of isolation. Attempting to relate Islam with isolation is just unnecessary. Mecca itself, despite being in Arabia, was not a backward place as you might think. Trade links with Syria were certainly established and the faiths of Christianity and Judaism had been easily known. Yemen itself was linked to the red sea and ideas flowed. And I still can't see what this has to do with it. Muhammad (pbuh) was not an authoritarian dictator, pagans were not forced to become Islamic. Muslim leaders tried the utmost to not isolate themselves from the world, with their expansionist policies and attempts to control trade going across the Middle East. The major point of the Islamic conquests was to make a mark on the stage, find the technological ideas, and use them to support their own empire and give it prestige. If Muslims were isolationist, they wouldn't have gone to, I don't know, the edge of France!

Final thing, then, what do the stated groups even have related to representation of Islam! They have zero legitimacy or recognition. The whole basis of an Islamic state is a recognition and acceptance by Muslim scholars, something which has not even been done. Boko Haram can't can even read, they don't believe in books.
 
vipin said:
i still dont understand why do you people have to hate jews even if they are bad? it is hard for us christians to understand that philosophy. we have no hatred towards any religious group. we dont look it that way at all. i have lot of muslim friend. but only recently i took islam serious and started to read quran. it even mentions jews christains specifically. reminds torment in hell repeadtedly. says that christain and jews will reject it and show hard heartedness.

it is so strange language for me.
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It is a long story (about the Jews) but it is not directed to the ordinary Jew or Christian, more to the clerics.

In essence, Allah has warned in the Quran not to seek help from Jewish-Christian alliance, lo and behold, we have plenty of Muslim nations doing the opposite.

Stop there for


:peace:
 

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