Textual corruption of the Qur'an?

[OmAbdullah]

I am aware of a clear Hadith which clearly demonstrates such an observation, it reported that the Prophet pbuh would call for volunteers to guard him at camp and that he (pbuh) later told them that it was no longer necessary, the Prophet pbuh demonstrated his trust in Allah but he also understood that there was an undecipherable relationship and difference with and between action and Qadr (trust in Allah and tie your camel), he pbuh would be guarded heavily on conquests, had the nephew of 'Urwa ibn Mas'ud standing as bodyguard at the talks of Al Hudaybiyyah, who was covered from head to toe in steel and would tap the hand of 'Urwa with the handle of his sword whenever 'Urwa would extend his hand to hold the blessed beard of the Prophet during conversation, and Al 'Abbas (ra) called the believers to guard the Messenger of Allah pbuh at Hunayn i believe? when they dispersed from around the Prophet pbuh at the sudden ambush and the people of Surah Al Baqarah were called, those who couldn't get their horses to urn around jumped off them and ran to guard the Prophet pbuh. He pbuh also is reported to have felt the effects of the poison administered by the jewish woman in his final days, the companions who compiled the Quran endeavoured to check and recheck and recheck again verses presented to them and did not expect it to all fall automatically into place, an effort was required.
Some may see this as a contradiction or feel confused, but Allah knows best how or why He does things the way He does despite His ability to send down a book from the sky that we can touch and i hope to follow the best guidance to the best of my sincere ability, innamaa 'alaina al jahd - wal ikhlaas anniyyah.

I believe i have nothing more to contribute to this thread and would avoid unnecessary dispute so please accept it as my final post.

I really get very tired of useless discussions and arguments. If it was not for the sake of Allah I would have left answers to such posts. In fact this is not the matter of two persons in arguments but there may be many readers, Muslims and non-Muslims, reading these posts. If any writer brings wrong things about Allah, Allah's Messengers, Allah's Book or about Islam as a whole even by mistake, a large number of the readers, unknowingly, may go astray. Their faith about Allah will get disturbed and the sin will not only go to the mistake-maker but also to those who know the truth and keep quiet. So I have to explain the points although I am tired.

Qadar is right and the trust in Allah but tie the camel is also correct. But when Allah promised to protect Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam, then there was no need for the companions to do guarding. The time of Hudaibiyah treaty was before the revelation of the verse having Allah's promise to protect him.


The Yahoodi woman who had invited Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam and had poisoned the food for him, had cooked scapula (a bone near the upper arm of sheep/goat etc.). She knew that Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam liked to eat meat on the scapula bone. I have read /heard that when the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam sat to eat the food, the scapula spoke out, "Don't eat me, I am poisoned". So He salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam got up and didn't eat the food. There was no question of poisoning because he didn't eat from it.

I believe in this miraculous happening with my eyes closed and I feel great peace in my belief.

The compiling of the Holy Quraan was done by the Prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam himself. This is another very nonsense story that the compiling was not done by Him and this story is made by the enemies. Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam had 40 scribes. So 40 copies of Quraan were written under his observation. He had prohibited the writing of any thing from him other than Quraan. When the Holy Quraan got completed, He put a complete copy with Hafsah rAa for future while the rest of the copies went to sahaabahs. No one should think that Allah sent the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam on such a great mission and then left the Book Quraan incomplete although it is the basic and No.1 source of Islam. Allah said in the sermon of the Hajjatul-wida (the last Hajj of the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam, "Alyawma akmaltu lakum deenakum----- " On this day I perfected your Deen for you---" The translation of the full verse can be seen in surah Al-Ma'idah verse 3.

When Allah perfected the religion then how can some say that the Quraan was left uncompiled. When more and more people were entering the fold of Islam more and more Quraans were needed. So Abu-Bakar rAa took the Quraan from Hafsah rAa and made more copies with great care due to fear of Allah. Even now every day more and more copies are made but now with the machines for making copies this work is quite easy. Still the responsible Muslims shall be careful due to the fear of Allah. And surely Allah will guard it against any corruption. During the khilafat of Uthman rAa the Islamic kingdom extended much more, so more Quraans were needed and were written on his order. Make it short, the quraan has reached us safe and preserved and shall remain preserved due to the Promise of Allah. In whatever way Allah preserved it, that is not my job to know. But here the argument is that a non-Muslim is attacking (due to his own ignorance which is proved above)the Promise of Allah to preserve the Holy Quraan and we all as Muslims are obligated to explain the things and make it clear to him that he is utterly wrong.

There was great wisdom in revealing the Qur'aanic verses and surahs little by little, from time to time according to necessity and circumstances. The mushrikeen had asked such question that why didn't the Quraan come down as a whole book, this question is answered thoroughly in this unique Book.

 

[Insaanah]

Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam had 40 scribes. So 40 copies of Quraan were written under his observation.

Sister, may I ask what your source is for this?

I did a brief course years ago, with reliable teachers and sources, and dug up an essay I had written on the collection of the Qur'aan, and this is the relevant part:

The Situation at the time of the Prophet’s death

The Qur’an had been memorised by the Prophet :saws: and his companions. Some of them had memorised all of it, and some had memorised most of it, completing their recitation shortly after his death.

The Qur’an was not written as a whole volume, but on various pieces of writing materials kept by different companions, but none of then had all of it. Some of them had written portions of it for their personal use.

Why the whole Qur’an was not and could not have been collected together as a whole during the lifetime of the Prophet :saws:

There are a number of reasons for this. The Qur’an was being constantly revealed right up until a few months before the Prophets death. The different passages were revealed on different occasions and in different circumstances, and they were thus put in different Surahs accordingly. The Prophet :saws: was constantly waiting for new verses to be revealed, which might be placed in different Surahs. Given the paucity of writing materials at the time, it would have been difficult to continuously revise the Qur’an and add verses into the middle of two existing verses etc.

Also some verses were abrogated and removed from the Qur’an completely. This constant addition and removal of verses is the major reason why it was not feasible during the Prophets lifetime to gather the Qur’an into one book. So the companions were more concerned with recording and memorising it correctly than compiling it into one book.

This does not imply that the Qur'an was not fully preserved, indeed the fact that it could be written and verses put in the correct order right up to the last verse revealed shortly before the death of the Prophet :saws: , show that it was part of the preservation.

This is also mentioned in the following sources:

Usool at Tafseer: The methodology of Qur'aanic explanation, by Dr Abu Ameenah Bilal Philips, Dar al Fatah, 1997, Sharjah, UAE

An Introduction to Understanding the Qur’an, by Sayyid Abul A’la Maududi. Translated by Zafar Ishaque Ansari. Delhi: Markazi Maktaba Islami Publishers 1997.

An Introduction to the Qur’an, by Suhaib Hasan. London: Al-Quran Society 2000

Sheikh Saalih al Munajjid at islamqa.com https://islamqa.info/en/10012

 

[OmAbdullah]

Sister, may I ask what your source is for this?

I did a brief course years ago, with reliable teachers and sources, and dug up an essay I had written on the collection of the Qur'aan, and this is the relevant part:



This does not imply that the Qur'an was not fully preserved, indeed the fact that it could be written and verses put in the correct order right up to the last verse revealed shortly before the death of the Prophet :saws: , show that it was part of the preservation.

This is also mentioned in the following sources:

Usool at Tafseer: The methodology of Qur'aanic explanation, by Dr Abu Ameenah Bilal Philips, Dar al Fatah, 1997, Sharjah, UAE

An Introduction to Understanding the Qur’an, by Sayyid Abul A’la Maududi. Translated by Zafar Ishaque Ansari. Delhi: Markazi Maktaba Islami Publishers 1997.

An Introduction to the Qur’an, by Suhaib Hasan. London: Al-Quran Society 2000

Sheikh Saalih al Munajjid at islamqa.com https://islamqa.info/en/10012

Dear Sister,


I have taken the following from "Ahmad Von Denffer Ulum al-Quraan".

The Qur'an written during the Prophet's Lifetime

There is no doubt that the Qur'an was not only transmitted orally by many Muslims who had learned parts or the whole of
it, but that it was also written down during the lifetime of the Prophet.
The well-known report about 'Umar's conversion shows that large passages of the revelation had already been written down even at a very early time, in Makka, long before the hijra, when the Prophet was still in the house of Arqam.
'
Umar had set out to kill the Prophet Muhammad, when somebody informed him that Islam had already
spread into his own family and pointed out to him that his brother-in-law, his nephew and his sister had
all become Muslims. 'Umar went to the house of his sister and found her together with her husband and
another Muslim. A dispute arose and 'Umar violently attacked both his brother-in-law and his own sister.
'When he did that they said to him "Yes, we are Muslims and we believe in God and His apostle and you
can do what you like". When 'Umar saw the blood on his sister, he was sorry for what he had done and
turned back and said to his sister, 'Give me this sheet which I heard you reading just now so that I may
see just what it is which Muhammad has brought', for 'Umar could write. When he said that, his sister
replied that she was afraid to trust him with it. 'Do not be afraid', he said and he swore by his gods that
he would return it when he had read it. When he said that, she had hopes that he would become a
Muslim and said to him, 'My brother, you are unclean in your polytheism and only the clean may touch it'.
So 'Umar rose and washed himself and she gave him the page in which was Taha and when he had read
the beginning he said 'How fine and noble is this speech ..." [Ibn Hisham, pp. 156-7.]


The Qur'an Dictated by the Prophet

The Qur'an was not only written down by those Companions who did so on their own initiative. Indeed, the Prophet, when a revelation came, called for the scribe and dictated to him. The Prophet while in Madina had several such scribes,

[M. M. A'zami, in his book Kuttab al-Nabi (Beirut, 1393/1974) mentions 48 persons who used to write for the Prophet.]
among whom Zaid bin Thabit was very prominent.

Narrated al-Bara': There was revealed 'Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and those
who strive and fight in the cause of Allah' (4: 95). The Prophet said:

'Call Zaid for me and let him bring the board, the ink pot and the scapula bone (or the scapula bone and the ink pot).' Then he said:
'Write: Not equal are those believers ... [Bukhari, VI, No. 512; also VI, No. 116-18.]

It is also reported that material upon which the revelation had been written down was kept in the house of the Prophet.
[Suyuti, Itqan, I, p. 58.]

Written during the Prophet's Lifetime

Another report informs us that when people came to Madina to learn about Islam, they were provided with 'copies of the chapters of the Qur'an, to read and learn them by heart'. [Hamidullah, M.: Sahifa Hammam ibn Munabbih, Paris, 1979, p.
64.]

Further evidence for the existence of the Qur'an as a written document during the lifetime of the Prophet comes from the following account:

'Abd Allah b. Abu Bakr b. Hazm reported:

The book written by the apostle of Allah for 'Amr b. Hazm
contained also this that no man should touch the Qur'an without ablution.' [Muwatta', No. 462.]
Malik said: And no one should carry the mushaf by its strap, nor on a pillow, unless he is clean. And even
if this be allowed to carry it in its cover, it is not disliked, if there is not in the two hands which carry it, something polluting the mushaf, but it is disliked for the one who carries it, and he is not clean, in honour to the Qur'an and respect to it. Malik said:

The best I heard about this is the verse

'None shall touch it but those who are clean' (56: 79).' [Muwatta', Arabic, p. 204.]

The commentary to the muwatta' explains that the book referred to as written by the Prophet (which means of course written upon his instruction) was sent with some Muslims for instruction in Islam of the people of Yemen. [Muwatta',
Arabic, p. 204.]


In fact the Qur'anic verse 56: 79, read in context, clearly explains that the Qur'an is available to those who receive instruction by revelation, in the form of a book or a piece of writing:

'... this is indeed a Qur'an most honourable, in a book (kitab) well guarded, which none shall touch but those who are clean: a revelation from the Lord of the worlds' (56: 77-80).

The same fact, i.e. that the Qur'an did exist as a written document in the lifetime of the Prophet is proved by the
following ahadith:

From Ibn 'Umar: ... 'The messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: "Do not take the Qur'an on a
journey with you, for I am afraid lest it should fall into the hands of the enemy". [Muslim, III, No. 4609,
also 4607, 4608; Bukhari, IV, No. 233.]

The correctness of the assumption that the reference is to a written document is supported by one of the transmitters:

Ayyub (i. e. one of the narrators in the chain of transmission of this report) said: The enemy may seize it and may quarrel with you over it. [Muslim, III, No. 4609.]

Furthermore, the chapter-heading used by Bukhan for the section, (which usually contains additional information,)
explains:

'Ibn 'Umar said: No doubt the Prophet and his Companions travelled in the land of the enemy and they
knew the Qur'an then.' [i.e. they knew that the Quran was carried - as a scripture - by the Muslims.
Bukhan, IV, p. 146, Ch. 129.]

Collection of Revelation during the Prophet's Lifetime

During his last pilgrimage, at the sermon which he gave to the large gathering of Muslims, the Prophet said: 'I have left with you something which if you will hold fast to it you will never fall into error- a plain indication, the book of God and the practice of his prophet. [Ibn Hisham, p. 651.]


This advice from the Prophet to the Muslims implies that the revelation was available as kitab (writing) before his death,
for otherwise he would have referred to it in some other term.

From other reports also, we can conclude that the Prophet himself took care of the actual arrangement of the revelation, when it was written down.


Zaid is reported to have said:

'We used to compile the Qur'an from small scraps in the presence of the Apostle.' [Itqan, I, p. 99; Salih,
p.69.]
'Uthman said, that in later days, the Prophet 'used to, when something was revealed to him, call someone from among those who used to write for him and said: Place these ayat in the sura, in which this and this is mentioned, and when (only) one aya was revealed to him, he said: Place this aya in the sura in which this and this is mentioned'. [Jeffery, A.:
Materials for the history of the text of the qura'n, (incl. Kitab al-masahif by Ibn Abi Dawud (abbr. as Ibn Abi Dawud,
masahif) Leiden, 1937, p. 31.]

This indicates that not only was the revelation written down during the lifetime of the Prophet, but that he himself gave instructions for the arrangement of the material. According to some other reports, it is also clear, that this proper arrangement and order of the ayat was well known to the Companions of the Prophet, and they were not prepared to tamper with it.


'Narrated Ibn Az-Zubair: I said to 'Uthman "This verse which is in Sura al-Baqara: 'those of you who die
and leave wives behind ... without turning them out' has been abrogated by another verse. Why then do
you write it in the Qur'an?" 'Uthman said: Leave it (where it is) O son of my brother, for I will not shift
anything of it (i . e. the Qur'an) from its original position.' [Bukhari, VI. No. 60.]

Similarly quite a number of reports mention the various Suras by their names or beginnings. Two examples may suffice to make this point:

Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet used to recite the following in the Fajr prayer of Friday: Alif Lam Mim
Tanzil (Sajda) (32) and Hal-ata 'ala-l-Insani (al-dahr) (76). [Bukhari, II, No. 16.]

Abu Huraira said: God's messenger recited in both rak'as of the dawn prayer: "Say O unbelievers (99)
and Say, He is God, one God (112).' [Robson, J. (transl.): Mishkat al Masabih, Lahore, 1963, I, pp. 172-3
- Tabrizi: Mishkatal-masabih, Beirut, 1961, I, No. 842.]

The order and arrangement was of course well known to the Muslims due to the daily recitation of the Qur'an in the
prayers at the mosque of the Prophet and at other places.

Finally there are three ahadith in Sahih Bukhari, informing us that the Angel Gabriel used to recite the Qur'an with the Prophet once a year, but he recited it twice with him in the year he died. The Prophet used to stay in i'tikaf for ten days every year (in the month of Ramad. an), but in the year of his death, he stayed in i'tikaf for twenty days. [Bukhari, VI, No. 520; see also Nos. 518, 519.]

We can therefore distinguish the following measures which ensured the collection of the revelation in writing during the lifetime of the Prophet:

 Revelation used to be written down even in the very early days of the Prophet's call.
 In Madina, the Prophet had several persons who wrote down revelation when it was revealed.
 The Prophet himself instructed his scribes as to where the different revealed verses should be placed,
and thus determined the order and arrangement.
 This order and arrangement was well known to the Muslims and strictly observed by them.
 The Angel Gabriel went through all the revelation with Muhammad each year in Ramadan, and went
through it twice in the year the Prophet died.
 There are numerous reports about the existence of the written Qur'an - in the form of a book or piece of
writing (kitab) during the lifetime of the Prophet.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

(The above statement is from the Ulum al-Quraan as mentioned at the top.)


My principle is that when I get such a clear statement from the scholars of the past and I observe that it is in accordance with the Holy Quraan, then I don’t follow the statements in contradiction to it. In fact the Holy Quraan is the greatest proof as Allah Almighty said in the surah Al-Qiyaamah verse 17

17. It is for Us to collect it and to promulgate it:

Also we must use our wisdom, can Allah’s work be so disorganized that Allah left such important part of the mission incomplete? No, No, not at all. This is the false statements of the enemies who try a lot to prove that Quraan is not preserved.

Again I tell you that I am an aged person. When I was very young, I had bought a set of 6 volumes of the Tafheemul-Quraan. In the first volume there was a long introduction in which, I remember, was written that Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam put one complete copy of the Holy Quraan with Hafsah rAa. Later Abu Bakar Siddeeq and Uthman rAa had taken the same copy to write more copies exactly like it, and then they returned that copy to her. But now I am surprised that many statements in the commentary in new editions disappeared and also this statement about the compiling of the Holy Quraan is changed. This means that the enemies sitting among us in the shape of Muslims are working for the unbeliever enemies to attack the truth of the Holy Quraan. But this is the Book of Allah and Allah shall certainly protect it.

 

[talibilm]

Dear Sister,


I have taken the following from "Ahmad Von Denffer Ulum al-Quraan".

The Qur'an written during the Prophet's Lifetime

There is no doubt that the Qur'an was not only transmitted orally by many Muslims who had learned parts or the whole of
it, but that it was also written down during the lifetime of the Prophet.
The well-known report about 'Umar's conversion shows that large passages of the revelation had already been written down even at a very early time, in Makka, long before the hijra, when the Prophet was still in the house of Arqam.
'
Umar had set out to kill the Prophet Muhammad, when somebody informed him that Islam had already spread into his own family and pointed out to him that his brother-in-law, his nephew and his sister had all become Muslims. 'Umar went to the house of his sister and found her together with her husband andanother Muslim. A dispute arose and 'Umar violently attacked both his brother-in-law and his own sister.'When he did that they said to him "Yes, we are Muslims and we believe in God and His apostle and you can do what you like". When 'Umar saw the blood on his sister, he was sorry for what he had done andturned back and said to his sister, 'Give me this sheet which I heard you reading just now so that I may see just what it is which Muhammad has brought', for 'Umar could write. When he said that, his sister replied that she was afraid to trust him with it. 'Do not be afraid', he said and he swore by his gods that he would return it when he had read it. When he said that, she had hopes that he would become a Muslim and said to him, 'My brother, you are unclean in your polytheism and only the clean may touch it'.So 'Umar rose and washed himself and she gave him the page in which was Taha and when he had read the beginning he said 'How fine and noble is this speech ..." [Ibn Hisham, pp. 156-7.]


The Qur'an Dictated by the Prophet

The Qur'an was not only written down by those Companions who did so on their own initiative. Indeed, the Prophet, when a revelation came, called for the scribe and dictated to him. The Prophet while in Madina had several such scribes,

[M. M. A'zami, in his book Kuttab al-Nabi (Beirut, 1393/1974) mentions 48 persons who used to write for the Prophet.] among whom Zaid bin Thabit was very prominent.

Narrated al-Bara': There was revealed 'Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and those
who strive and fight in the cause of Allah' (4: 95). The Prophet said:

'Call Zaid for me and let him bring the board, the ink pot and the scapula bone (or the scapula bone and the ink pot).' Then he said:'Write: Not equal are those believers ... [Bukhari, VI, No. 512; also VI, No. 116-18.]

It is also reported that material upon which the revelation had been written down was kept in the house of the Prophet.
[Suyuti, Itqan, I, p. 58.]

Written during the Prophet's Lifetime

Another report informs us that when people came to Madina to learn about Islam, they were provided with 'copies of the chapters of the Qur'an, to read and learn them by heart'. [Hamidullah, M.: Sahifa Hammam ibn Munabbih, Paris, 1979, p.
64.]

Further evidence for the existence of the Qur'an as a written document during the lifetime of the Prophet comes from the following account:

'Abd Allah b. Abu Bakr b. Hazm reported:

The book written by the apostle of Allah for 'Amr b. Hazm
contained also this that no man should touch the Qur'an without ablution.' [Muwatta', No. 462.]
Malik said: And no one should carry the mushaf by its strap, nor on a pillow, unless he is clean. And even
if this be allowed to carry it in its cover, it is not disliked, if there is not in the two hands which carry it, something polluting the mushaf, but it is disliked for the one who carries it, and he is not clean, in honour to the Qur'an and respect to it. Malik said:

The best I heard about this is the verse

'None shall touch it but those who are clean' (56: 79).' [Muwatta', Arabic, p. 204.]

The commentary to the muwatta' explains that the book referred to as written by the Prophet (which means of course written upon his instruction) was sent with some Muslims for instruction in Islam of the people of Yemen. [Muwatta',
Arabic, p. 204.]


In fact the Qur'anic verse 56: 79, read in context, clearly explains that the Qur'an is available to those who receive instruction by revelation, in the form of a book or a piece of writing:

'... this is indeed a Qur'an most honourable, in a book (kitab) well guarded, which none shall touch but those who are clean: a revelation from the Lord of the worlds' (56: 77-80).

The same fact, i.e. that the Qur'an did exist as a written document in the lifetime of the Prophet is proved by the
following ahadith:

From Ibn 'Umar: ... 'The messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: "Do not take the Qur'an on a
journey with you, for I am afraid lest it should fall into the hands of the enemy". [Muslim, III, No. 4609,
also 4607, 4608; Bukhari, IV, No. 233.]

The correctness of the assumption that the reference is to a written document is supported by one of the transmitters:

Ayyub (i. e. one of the narrators in the chain of transmission of this report) said: The enemy may seize it and may quarrel with you over it. [Muslim, III, No. 4609.]

Furthermore, the chapter-heading used by Bukhan for the section, (which usually contains additional information,)
explains:

'Ibn 'Umar said: No doubt the Prophet and his Companions travelled in the land of the enemy and they
knew the Qur'an then.' [i.e. they knew that the Quran was carried - as a scripture - by the Muslims.
Bukhan, IV, p. 146, Ch. 129.]

Collection of Revelation during the Prophet's Lifetime

During his last pilgrimage, at the sermon which he gave to the large gathering of Muslims, the Prophet said: 'I have left with you something which if you will hold fast to it you will never fall into error- a plain indication, the book of God and the practice of his prophet. [Ibn Hisham, p. 651.]


This advice from the Prophet to the Muslims implies that the revelation was available as kitab (writing) before his death,
for otherwise he would have referred to it in some other term.

From other reports also, we can conclude that the Prophet himself took care of the actual arrangement of the revelation, when it was written down.


Zaid is reported to have said:

'We used to compile the Qur'an from small scraps in the presence of the Apostle.' [Itqan, I, p. 99; Salih,
p.69.]
'Uthman said, that in later days, the Prophet 'used to, when something was revealed to him, call someone from among those who used to write for him and said: Place these ayat in the sura, in which this and this is mentioned, and when (only) one aya was revealed to him, he said: Place this aya in the sura in which this and this is mentioned'. [Jeffery, A.:
Materials for the history of the text of the qura'n, (incl. Kitab al-masahif by Ibn Abi Dawud (abbr. as Ibn Abi Dawud,
masahif) Leiden, 1937, p. 31.]

This indicates that not only was the revelation written down during the lifetime of the Prophet, but that he himself gave instructions for the arrangement of the material. According to some other reports, it is also clear, that this proper arrangement and order of the ayat was well known to the Companions of the Prophet, and they were not prepared to tamper with it.


'Narrated Ibn Az-Zubair: I said to 'Uthman "This verse which is in Sura al-Baqara: 'those of you who die
and leave wives behind ... without turning them out' has been abrogated by another verse. Why then do
you write it in the Qur'an?" 'Uthman said: Leave it (where it is) O son of my brother, for I will not shift
anything of it (i . e. the Qur'an) from its original position.' [Bukhari, VI. No. 60.]

Similarly quite a number of reports mention the various Suras by their names or beginnings. Two examples may suffice to make this point:

Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet used to recite the following in the Fajr prayer of Friday: Alif Lam Mim
Tanzil (Sajda) (32) and Hal-ata 'ala-l-Insani (al-dahr) (76). [Bukhari, II, No. 16.]

Abu Huraira said: God's messenger recited in both rak'as of the dawn prayer: "Say O unbelievers (99)
and Say, He is God, one God (112).' [Robson, J. (transl.): Mishkat al Masabih, Lahore, 1963, I, pp. 172-3
- Tabrizi: Mishkatal-masabih, Beirut, 1961, I, No. 842.]

The order and arrangement was of course well known to the Muslims due to the daily recitation of the Qur'an in the
prayers at the mosque of the Prophet and at other places.

Finally there are three ahadith in Sahih Bukhari, informing us that the Angel Gabriel used to recite the Qur'an with the Prophet once a year, but he recited it twice with him in the year he died. The Prophet used to stay in i'tikaf for ten days every year (in the month of Ramad. an), but in the year of his death, he stayed in i'tikaf for twenty days. [Bukhari, VI, No. 520; see also Nos. 518, 519.]

We can therefore distinguish the following measures which ensured the collection of the revelation in writing during the lifetime of the Prophet:

 Revelation used to be written down even in the very early days of the Prophet's call.
 In Madina, the Prophet had several persons who wrote down revelation when it was revealed.
 The Prophet himself instructed his scribes as to where the different revealed verses should be placed,
and thus determined the order and arrangement.
 This order and arrangement was well known to the Muslims and strictly observed by them.
 The Angel Gabriel went through all the revelation with Muhammad each year in Ramadan, and went
through it twice in the year the Prophet died.
 There are numerous reports about the existence of the written Qur'an - in the form of a book or piece of
writing (kitab) during the lifetime of the Prophet.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

(The above statement is from the Ulum al-Quraan as mentioned at the top.)


My principle is that when I get such a clear statement from the scholars of the past and I observe that it is in accordance with the Holy Quraan, then I don’t follow the statements in contradiction to it. In fact the Holy Quraan is the greatest proof as Allah Almighty said in the surah Al-Qiyaamah verse 17

17. It is for Us to collect it and to promulgate it:

Also we must use our wisdom, can Allah’s work be so disorganized that Allah left such important part of the mission incomplete? No, No, not at all. This is the false statements of the enemies who try a lot to prove that Quraan is not preserved.

Again I tell you that I am an aged person. When I was very young, I had bought a set of 6 volumes of the Tafheemul-Quraan. In the first volume there was a long introduction in which, I remember, was written that Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam put one complete copy of the Holy Quraan with Hafsah rAa. Later Abu Bakar Siddeeq and Uthman rAa had taken the same copy to write more copies exactly like it, and then they returned that copy to her. But now I am surprised that many statements in the commentary in new editions disappeared and also this statement about the compiling of the Holy Quraan is changed. This means that the enemies sitting among us in the shape of Muslims are working for the unbeliever enemies to attack the truth of the Holy Quraan. But this is the Book of Allah and Allah shall certainly protect it.

Sister. Jazakallah for this valuable post which clearly shows that the Noble Quran was existing in the written form . But do you have the hadith reference for the Noble Quran being kept with Hafsa (R-anha ) while Prophet :saws: was still present with them ? Though we know Caliph Abu Bakr (R anhu) left a copy with her.

What are your views regarding the hadiths saying the compilation of the Noble Quran during Caliph Abu Bakr (R _ anhu) under Zaid Bin Thabbit (R anhu) after the battle of Yamama where 70 hufadh from Ansars were martyred. ?

And I do agree by your claims that enemies of Islam are among Muslims themselves by the virtue of these hadiths

Sayyidina lmran ibn Husayn (RA) reported that Allah’s Messenger said, The best of my ummah is the generation to which 1 have sent, then they who will follow them.’ The narrator said, ‘And I do not remember if he mentioned the third (generation) or not, “After that’, the Prophet (SAW) said, “A people will come who will voluntarily give testimony, they will commit treachery and will not be trustworthy. They will be corpulent, generally.
[Bukhari 2651]

A time will come when the hypocrites will live secretly among you, and the faithful will try to live their religion in secret among others.(Agreed upon)



Bukhari :: Book 6 :: Volume 60 :: Hadith 149
Narrated Ibn Abbas: Allah's Apostle delivered a sermon and said, "O people! You will be gathered before Allah bare-footed, naked and not circumcised." Then (quoting Quran) he said:-- "As We began the first creation, We shall repeat it. A promise We have undertaken: Truly we shall do it.." (21.104)
The Prophet then said, "The first of the human beings to be dressed on the Day of Resurrection, will be Abraham. Lo! Some men from my followers will be brought and then (the angels) will drive them to the left side (Hell-Fire). I will say. 'O my Lord! (They are) my companions!' Then a reply will come (from Almighty), 'You do not know what they did after you.' I will say as the pious slave (the Prophet Jesus) said: And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them. When You took me up. You were the Watcher over them and You are a Witness to all things.' (5.117) Then it will be said, "These people have continued to be apostates since you left them."

So its important as you say to be careful and see real time historical incidents during Prophet :saws: before coming to any conclusions because we know Actions of Prophet :saws: and Sahabas and the tabieens
DISPLAYS THE TRUTH more than spoken words.

Jazakallah Khair

 

[talibilm]

EDIT : Correction to the above post # 44

Also we must use our wisdom, can Allah’s work be so disorganized that Allah left such important part of the mission incomplete? No, No, not at all. This is the false statements of the enemies who try a lot to prove that Quraan is not preserved.

Again I tell you that I am an aged person. When I was very young, I had bought a set of 6 volumes of the Tafheemul-Quraan. In the first volume there was a long introduction in which, I remember, was written that Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam put one complete copy of the Holy Quraan with Hafsah rAa. Later Abu Bakar Siddeeq and Uthman rAa had taken the same copy to write more copies exactly like it, and then they returned that copy to her. But now I am surprised that many statements in the commentary in new editions disappeared and also this statement about the compiling of the Holy Quraan is changed. This means that the enemies sitting among us in the shape of Muslims are working for the unbeliever enemies to attack the truth of the Holy Quraan. But this is the Book of Allah and Allah shall certainly protect it.

I would like to rectify an error regarding the 70 ansars killed in battle of Al-Yamama whom I had MISTAKENLY referred all of them as Huffadh (plural of Hafiz or memorizers of Noble Quran) (Asthaugfirullah, Ameen ) whereas the hadith which I used (listed below) does not refer all of them as Huffadh but only says that number of 70 from The Ansars or Medinites but DOES NOT POINT THEM AS Huffadh. Some Apologetics exaggerate this figure to 700 huffadh for which i had not found any sahih hadith reference, yet.


Bukhari :: Book 5 :: Volume 59 :: Hadith 405

Narrated Qatada:
We do not know of any tribe amongst the 'Arab tribes who lost more martyrs than Al-Ansar, and they will have superiority on the Day of Resurrection. Anas bin Malik told us that seventy from the Ansar were martyred on the day of Uhud, and seventy on the day (of the battle of) Bir Ma'una, and seventy on the day of Al Yamama Anas added, "The battle of Bir Ma'una took place during the lifetime of Allah's Apostle and the battle of Al- Yamama, during the caliphate of Abu Bakr, and it was the day when Musailamah Al-Kadhdhab was killed."

 

[Insaanah]

respected Aunty,

This advice from the Prophet to the Muslims implies that the revelation was available as kitab (writing) before his death,
for otherwise he would have referred to it in some other term.

There are numerous reports about the existence of the written Qur'an - in the form of a book or piece of
writing (kitab) during the lifetime of the Prophet.

Aunty, nobody is disputing that the Qur'an was written during the lifetime of the Prophet :saws: . What we are talking about is all of the writings being collected as one complete book in one volume.

For example, the beginning of Surah al Baqarah, says "this is the book" when the Quran hadn't finished being revealed. It was referred to as the Kitaab, even then.

From Ibn 'Umar: ... 'The messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: "Do not take the Qur'an on a
journey with you, for I am afraid lest it should fall into the hands of the enemy". [Muslim, III, No. 4609,
also 4607, 4608; Bukhari, IV, No. 233.]

We need to know the back ground of when this was said by the Prophet :saws:. For this to imply that the complete Qur'an had been already collected as a finished volume, it had to have been said just before his death. If it was said before that, it would have been referring to whatever was revealed up to then, and now would be referring to the whole book we have with us.

When I was very young, I had bought a set of 6 volumes of the Tafheemul-Quraan. In the first volume there was a long introduction in which, I remember, was written that Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam put one complete copy of the Holy Quraan with Hafsah rAa. Later Abu Bakar Siddeeq and Uthman rAa had taken the same copy to write more copies exactly like it, and then they returned that copy to her. But now I am surprised that many statements in the commentary in new editions disappeared and also this statement about the compiling of the Holy Quraan is changed. This means that the enemies sitting among us in the shape of Muslims are working for the unbeliever enemies to attack the truth of the Holy Quraan.

Aunty, we need to be careful before thinking of Muslims brothers and sisters of as enemies of Islam. What was in the English source above was faithfully translated by the translator from the Urdu text. Do you read Urdu? If so, this is a relevant part of the Urdu from the introduction to Tafheemul Qur'an (you might have to wait a while for the pictures to load - there are four of them):

As far as I know, there have just been reprints, but no editions.

This, as far as I know, is also the view of the majority of reliable scholars, based on accurate evidence.

Wallaahu ta'aalaa a'lam.

 

[Insaanah]

Also, see the following from a well-known book which seems well researched and based on authentic sources and correct interpretations:

Though the Prophet :saws: enlisted all possible measures to preserve the Qur'an, he did not bind all the suras together into one master volume, as evidenced by Zaid bin Thabit's statement that,

"The Prophet :saws: was taken [from this life] whilst the Qur'an had not yet been gathered into a book."

Ibn Hajar, FathulBari, ix:12; see also al-Bukhari, Sahih Jami al-Qur'an, hadith no. 4986.

Note the usage of the word 'gathered' rather than 'written'. Commenting on this, al-Khattabi says, "This quote refers to [the lack of] a specific book with specific traits. The Qur'an had indeed been written down in its entirety during the Prophet's lifetime, but had not been collected together [...]

Setting up a master volume might have proved challenging; any divine naskh (abrogation) revealed subsequently, affecting the legal provisions or wordings of certain verses, would have required proper inclusion. And a loose page format greatly simplified the insertion of new verses and new suras, for the revelations did not cease until a short time before the Prophet's death. But with his death the wahy ended forever: there would be no more verses, abrogations or rearrangements, so that the situation lent itself perfectly for the compilation of the Qur'an into a single,unified volume. No hesitation was felt in arriving at this decision; prudence compelled the community to hasten in this task, and Allah guided the Companions to serve the Qur'an in such fashion as to fulfil His promise of forever preserving His Book,

"We have, without doubt, sent down the message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption)."
Qur'an 15:9

From: A History of the Qur'anic Text, from Revelation to Compilation, by Muhammad Mustafa al A'zami

PDF available here:

http://www.islamicbulletin.org/free_downloads/quran/history_of_quranic_text.pdf

Also here: https://www.kalamullah.com/history-of-the-quranic-text.html

 

[OmAbdullah]

Sister. Jazakallah for this valuable post which clearly shows that the Noble Quran was existing in the written form . But do you have the hadith reference for the Noble Quran being kept with Hafsa (R-anha ) while Prophet :saws: was still present with them ? Though we know Caliph Abu Bakr (R anhu) left a copy with her.

What are your views regarding the hadiths saying the compilation of the Noble Quran during Caliph Abu Bakr (R _ anhu) under Zaid Bin Thabbit (R anhu) after the battle of Yamama where 70 hufadh from Ansars were martyred. ?

And I do agree by your claims that enemies of Islam are among Muslims themselves by the virtue of these hadiths

Sayyidina lmran ibn Husayn (RA) reported that Allah’s Messenger said, The best of my ummah is the generation to which 1 have sent, then they who will follow them.’ The narrator said, ‘And I do not remember if he mentioned the third (generation) or not, “After that’, the Prophet (SAW) said, “A people will come who will voluntarily give testimony, they will commit treachery and will not be trustworthy. They will be corpulent, generally.
[Bukhari 2651]

A time will come when the hypocrites will live secretly among you, and the faithful will try to live their religion in secret among others.(Agreed upon)



Bukhari :: Book 6 :: Volume 60 :: Hadith 149
Narrated Ibn Abbas: Allah's Apostle delivered a sermon and said, "O people! You will be gathered before Allah bare-footed, naked and not circumcised." Then (quoting Quran) he said:-- "As We began the first creation, We shall repeat it. A promise We have undertaken: Truly we shall do it.." (21.104)
The Prophet then said, "The first of the human beings to be dressed on the Day of Resurrection, will be Abraham. Lo! Some men from my followers will be brought and then (the angels) will drive them to the left side (Hell-Fire). I will say. 'O my Lord! (They are) my companions!' Then a reply will come (from Almighty), 'You do not know what they did after you.' I will say as the pious slave (the Prophet Jesus) said: And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them. When You took me up. You were the Watcher over them and You are a Witness to all things.' (5.117) Then it will be said, "These people have continued to be apostates since you left them."

So its important as you say to be careful and see real time historical incidents during Prophet :saws: before coming to any conclusions because we know Actions of Prophet :saws: and Sahabas and the tabieens
DISPLAYS THE TRUTH more than spoken words.

Jazakallah Khair

وعليكم السلام و رحمة الله و بركاته

I am thankful and jazaaka Allaho khaira

As I mentioned in my last post, I had read it in an old edition of the Tafheemul-Quraan. I am sad to see that the old edition is not available now. Once an imam, in a sermon, said that we should avoid new books, internet and new scholars for the knowledge of Islam because now there are many fitnahs. I do agree with him, may Allah give him great reward for this sincere advice.


I am posting this Hadeeth of the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam both in English and Arabic for proof.

تركت فيكم ما إن تمسكتم به لن تضلوا بعدي أبداَ كتاب الله و سنتي

رواه مسلم

Translation:

I am leaving behind Allah's Book and my Sunnah. You will never be astray after me, as long as you hold fast to these two.

The Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam had said these words in his last sermon. I stand by these words as a single person and believe that he salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam left complete Quraan (complete in all aspects). Please remember that the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam didn't die suddenly leaving incomplete work. When his life span was completed, Allah sent him angel who asked him whether he wanted to live or go. He himself chose going from this world and that was after the absolute perfection of his work/mission!!!

 

[OmAbdullah]

respected Aunty,


Aunty, nobody is disputing that the Qur'an was written during the lifetime of the Prophet :saws: . What we are talking about is all of the writings being collected as one complete book in one volume.

First you disputed about the number of the scribes. That was your disputing about the writing of the Full Quraan in the life of the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam. Those who claim that it was compiled later, do not have a single statement to stand by strongly. This is because lie has no legs to stand upon. They say that Umar rAa was worried about the death of the hufaaz. Also they say that they took some copies from the sahaabah and some they asked from the hufaaz. This is a clear proof that they do not believe in writing of complete Quraan in the life of the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam, and unfortunately, you (in my opinion a strong Muslimah) are standing by their side. Remember, that after the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam, the Quraan was not in need of the hufaaz.

For example, the beginning of Surah al Baqarah, says "this is the book" when the Quran hadn't finished being revealed. It was referred to as the Kitaab, even then.

We need to know the back ground of when this was said by the Prophet :saws:. For this to imply that the complete Qur'an had been already collected as a finished volume, it had to have been said just before his death.

I am posting this Hadeeth of the Prophet salla Allahoalaihi wa sallam both in English and Arabic for proof.

تركت فيكم ماإن تمسكتم به لن تضلوا بعدي أبداَ كتاب الله و سنتي

رواه مسلم

Translation:

I am leaving behind Allah's Book and my Sunnah. You will never be astray after me, as long as you hold fast to these two.

The Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam had said these words in his last sermon. I stand by these words as a single person and believe that he salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam left complete Quraan (complete in all aspects). Remember that the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam didn't die suddenly leaving incomplete work. When his life span was completed, Allah sent him angel who asked him whether he wanted to live or go. He himself chose going from this world and that was after the absolute perfection of his work/mission!!!

Also you should remember that the statement which I posted for your satisfaction, was not from me, but it was from the "Ulum Al-Quraan by Ahmad Von Denffer", he also took it from the ahaadeeth and Seerah books like Serah Ibn. Hisham. He has given the names of all the sources.

Aunty, we need to be careful before thinking of Muslims brothers and sisters of as enemies of Islam. What was in the English source above was faithfully translated by the translator from the Urdu text. Do you read Urdu? If so, this is a relevant part of the Urdu from the introduction to Tafheemul Qur'an (you might have to wait a while for the pictures to load - there are four of them):

Daughter of my sister,

About the enemies in the shape of Muslims, you should read the post 44 of this thread, may Allah bless the brother who has faithfully given the ahaadeeth of the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam about the munaafiqeen.

I say that today's munaafiqeen can be the teachers of A -bin Ubbayyah. If he could accuse Ayishah rAa. then they are falsely accusing Allah and Allah's Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam. They are the ones who have harmed this ummah a lot.

Also I remind every one that writing and compiling at the time of the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam was not easy and could not be as perfect as is now. Just imagine. How they wrote the whole Quraan on flat bones and or skin/leather sheets. How big that Quraan would be!!! Then at that time how could they fix all sheets of leather and other things. Allaho aalam, I think it may be by binding all sheets with strings of cloth or ropes. But when the scholars accepted that the whole Quraan was written and put in complete order by the Prophet salla Allaho Alaihi wa sallam, and you also accept it, then what is left?


Imagine that a book is written by you, and you have numbered the pages and named the chapters, then you arranged all pages and chapters in complete order. What is left? That is a perfect book. Today, due to so many equipment, you can fix it strongly also because the book volume is so small. But at that time, irregular shape and large size of that Book! It was really very hard work which the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam and his companions rAa did with the help of Allah and even after him, the companions made more and more copies, later when paper was produced, some great servants wrote it with a wooden big qalam on the papers. Still later it was made like it is today with the machines and copiers etc. So it is very clear that all this preservation is done by the help of Allah only. But the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam was the very first to make it perfectly right with the sources available at that time!!!

I have seen a Book of Quraan which had two numbers with each surah, one in the order of revelation and the other in the order of its placement in the Holy Quraan. Allah has preserved the Quraan in its text. But people are tampering with whatever they can in this Book of Allah. So I have a Quraan from Saudi Arabia and it has the writing that it is a gift from the king of Saudia. But it has no number of the surah, no mention whether the surah is Makki or Madani, no name of the juz (30 parts with a name for each juz.). Stop signs are changed, even waqfi-lazim is removed from some places. The actors of these works may be thinking that Allah is carefree but see what is coming on the Arab world. Two days ago there was a terrible storm and flood in the UAE. Think about other Arab countries, wicked cruels are appointed on them. I advise the Muslims to become serious and stop playing with Allah's Book and Allah's Deen, otherwise, everyone's turn is coming as Allah is not unaware of what they do!!!

 

[OmAbdullah]

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم​

I think that the final complete copy of the Holy Quraan, which the Prophet Muhammad (Allah's Peace and Blessings be upon him) left for the Ummah may be on flat sheets of equal size made of leather. It also may be that they cut holes near the long edge of each sheet and then passed cloth or some other type of string through the holes to bind all sheets together to make it complete Book with the number of pages, verses and name and number of each surah; and the mentioning of its being Makki or Madani surah. It would also be having the name and number of each part (juz). In the end of surah Al-Naas would be the short du’aa (to be read at the end of daily recitation and after that a long du’aa to be read when one finishes the whole Quraan. After that it would have further details like list of contents, and description of the types of stops etc.


Allah knows best. But I explained it because my conscience (dameer) was not satisfied, rather it was upset with the imagination of an irregular Book as I had posted before this post. It would not only be this copy but many other copies would have been made at the same time as there were so many scribes. But in case if other copies were on flat bones, tree barks and leather sheets, this special copy which the Prophet (Allah's Peace and Blessings be upon him) put with Hafsah rAa would be completely on leather sheets bound together into a perfect Book. And then, at the occasion of Hajjatul-wida, the Prophet (Allah's Peace and Blessings be upon him) announced in His last sermon that He had left for us the Book of Allah and His Sunnah to hold fast to both of them and protect ourselves from going astray.
Allah knows best. I made salaati-istikhaarah before posting this statement. I requested Allah to guide me and protect me from posting any wrong statement.


Now from most of the newly printed Quraans, the last two or one du’aa is removed, alas.

 

[Sojourn]

Muslims not agreeing about the Quran?

mg:

 

[talibilm]

Muslims not agreeing about the Quran?

mg:

Its not about the Noble Quran but the difference of opinion of about a couple of years time ( is it 631 AD ? or 1 year after Prophet's demise ie 633AD ? ) of its complete compiled form as a COMPLETE Book as of today.

 

[Abz2000]

I came across a post by goodwill regarding 26 variants of older manuscripts of the Quran:
http://www.islamicboard.com/compara...predict-muhammad-post2925507.html#post2925507

The presentation in the video posted unfortunately appeared belligerent and accusatory, geared towards eliciting a defensive response, and less inclined towards finding the truth, accepting it and growing in understanding together.
I continued to research further and found some responses, one appeared a little informative but also defensive, still, an apparently sincere attempt to explain what the speaker was able to explain:

The way i see it, the message is presented to us, it is not our personal ownership and we have no need to shuffle about uncomfortably because someone showed us that we may have been wrong in some of our previous viewpoints/conclusions. Our task is to seek the truth, accept the truth and follow the truth and most correct guidance to the best of our abilities, shuffling about and being apologetic rather than earnestly seeking to know only proves to oneself and to Allah that they are attempting to protect the established way of their group, unfortunately it happens to people who were upon the truth in past nations but became defensive and irritable when new information was revealed or made apparent showing that some of their conclusions were mistaken. We need sincere and objective reasoning, the revelation is not ours - it's God's. We get nearer to Him by humbly seeking and learning.

The following link provides a view of some of the oldest manuscripts reported to have ever been found, at Sana'a, Yemen at a mosque established by a companion of God's final messenger (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) and also shows how corruption and incompetence led to many of the manuscripts being stolen, and in most cases, split into fragments and auctioned off all over the planet. All that was needed was an initial high resolution photographic inventory to be taken of all available pieces, that way the information would not have been lost, and any theft would become easily confirmable.


http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Text/Mss/soth.html

And here are some more details of some of the questions surrounding the later compilations:

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Text/Mss/

 

[Scimitar]

Greetings,

I came across an article written by James A. Bellamy...[/snip]

If I want to learn how to bake bread, I go to a baker - not a car mechanic.

Scimi

 

[talibilm]

I came across a post by goodwill regarding 26 variants of older manuscripts of the Quran:
http://www.islamicboard.com/compara...predict-muhammad-post2925507.html#post2925507

Its been a long term plan by the apologetics like Smith & Wood to sow doubts in Muslims mind as proved in a video which i had listed on the Ummah but went offline later. Such of those plan was implemented by Smith at the speakers Corner with different Quran cover Prints of 26 Qurans from different countries and Pointing out the Colour Tajweed of the Arabic Alphabets as different words from the plain ones trying to give a false impression to lay readers that the Qur'an exists in different texts & 26 VERSIONS which is Just a conspiracy together with the help of the who Pretend to be Muslims as The turkish Lady and both of them who even do not understand Arabic .


The Truth is Allah intended EASE for the Beleivers in the Path of Islam which is Obviously seen from Many verses of the Noble Quran and that's why Allah had followed the so called Method of Abrogation to protect the Beleivers from falling into Sin by Acting AGAINST THE LAW of Allah See thread
http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthre...oes-it-prove-the-Noble-Quran-is-Contradicting



Similarly Allah revealed the Noble Quran in 7 dialects which matched the dialects of about seven main tribes: Quraysh, Hudhayl, Thaqîf, Hawâzin, Kinânah, Tamîm and Yemen. The revelation of the Qur'an in seven different ahruf (dialect) made its recitation and memorization much easier for the various tribes Since Allah wants Ease to his believers and Protect them from slipping into sins, At the same time the Qur'an challenged them to produce a surah like it even in their own dialect so that they would not complain about the incomprehensibility.

The Video presented with some sheik is mainly about the so called difference in Hafs, Warsh versions but not the 26 versions which is just a gimmick of the Lairs. So Its Correct to accept Sister @nbegam views in # 48,49 who says to be careful all on line materials when anything can be manipulated (even the so called warsh differences & I am doubtful did this exist when we had One dialect after Uthman R.A ? or its) as was experienced by me mostly done by the Kuffar sites on several occasions even with a false book of Barnabus with false writings (not aramaic) but claiming to be Aramaic just to cause doubts on the real Aramaic bible caught from the Smugglers in Turkey. Many double records in letters of Prophet is also such treachery & even in the Body of Pharoah making us to fall in doubt wheather it was Ramess 1 or 2 all in just 40 years after Maurice Buccails Mummy's restoration in 1974. Even makes me doubt where there double records in the same hadith where Zaid ibn Thabit reports about missing verse in one its about Sura ahzab & another about sura tauba both found with same Abi Khuzaima al Ansari ? or a mistake ?

The following link provides a view of some of the oldest manuscripts reported to have ever been found, at Sana'a, Yemen at a mosque established by a companion of God's final messenger (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) and also shows how corruption and incompetence led to many of the manuscripts being stolen, and in most cases, split into fragments and auctioned off all over the planet. All that was needed was an initial high resolution photographic inventory to be taken of all available pieces, that way the information would not have been lost, and any theft would become easily confirmable.


And here are some more details of some of the questions surrounding the later compilations:

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Text/Mss/soth.html

This is what happens if you do not listen to the Rightly Guided Caliph like Uthman R.A since its the ORDER of Prophet :saws: to do whatever the Caliphs ordered, and its godly. Uthman R.A ORDERED to burn whatever & where ever it was but the Muslims in Sanaa had put them in well (another method to discard ) but those leather Parchments were ONLY partially washed (as seen from the images) So the Jews & Hypocrites in Sanaa had did the rest OF REWRITING the Quran with differences and Hid It SECRETLY to create confusions later . Why should they hide it if they had good faith and it was legitimate ?

These were the same group who also send Ibn Sabah the Hypocrite who entered Islam and try to provocate the supporters of Ali (ra) against Uthman and later called Ali (R.A) as God. When Ali r.a warned his and his group of 40 to repent and return to Shahada they did not and he and his group were BURNT LIVE by ali and he was also one of the reason of the worst Shias emergence who use such words of shirk ( From Dr Israar Ahmed , The Philanthropist Scholar of Islam, the Best widely knowledgeable in Academics and UNBIASED imo)

Brother, beware, Islamic awareness is Fake Hypocritical site with 9 truths and 1 lie mixed in it so we have to be careful with what they say . somebody already warned about them long ago which is also proved from your below Link regarding the Radio carbon datings about the Uthmanic Scripts which is incorrect as they claim 8th century but Oxford Lab claims the datings were between from 595 AD to 855 AD which is correct as its 653 AD by Uthman R.A, (Not compilation but Just reaffirmation into standard copy in one Quraishi dialect )

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Text/Mss/

Islamic awareness in the above link says

'The “Qur'ān Of ʿUthmān” At Tashkent (Samarqand), Uzbekistan, From 2nd Century Hijra.
''A folio from a Quranic manuscript in Tashkent, Uzbekistan, commonly attributed to caliph ʿUthmān, has recently been subject to radiocarbon tests at Oxford, United Kingdom. The dates generated by this radiometric technique and palaeographic studies suggest an 8th century (2nd century hijra) date. ''


This is a Lie since the actual dates given by the Oxford lab are 595 AD to 855 AD which is correct as the exact year is 653 AD as in the pdf link in below thread post # 131

This is what Sister @nbegam was warning in posts 48.49 all around about the hidden hypocrites (as in several hadith) will try to destroy lslam from inside with being called as Muslims when the truth is this . Kindly read from post #126 and in post # 131 here and NOTE the link in Pdf which am unable to transfer here and kindly give a good read

http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthre...-god/page4&highlight=jesus+was+the+son+of+god

 

[Abz2000]

Allah knows the unseen best, our duty is to gain knowledge and follow the truth to the best of our ability, If you look into the nature of wahi (inspiration), you'll find that sometimes it is absolutely clear and often rhythmic, and other times it is base data which has to be be understood and read out in the words and language of the receiver, sometimes Allah allowed even shaytaan to test people through shaytaan's interception and transmission of falsehood - after revelation was completed - the issue of the interception during the recitation of surah an-najm should help in understanding how this happened, however Allah obliterates falsehood and confirms His true signs.
It wasn't just a case of revealing the entire Quran in seven different dialects, it was sometimes different wording in some aayahs, anyone who knows seerah would know that the entire Quran wasn't revealed in seven dialects.
I won't pretend that i understand the full import of the following hadith or how authentic it actually is - regardless of recorded chain, but it appears to be the source of the misunderstanding of the seven different dialects theory. It is a little confusing too, but so were many things at the time, best to say that it's a case of mutashaabihaat and Allah knows best. The duty of mankind is to follow the truth to the best of their ability.

Language: English Narrated `Umar bin Al-Khattab:I heard Hisham bin Hakim reciting Surat Al-Furqan during the lifetime of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) and I listened to his recitation and noticed that he recited in several different ways which Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) had not taught me. I was about to jump over him during his prayer, but I controlled my temper, and when he had completed his prayer, I put his upper garment around his neck and seized him by it and said, "Who taught you this Sura which I heard you reciting?" He replied, "Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) taught it to me." I said, "You have told a lie, for Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) has taught it to me in a different way from yours." So I dragged him to Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) and said (to Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)), "I heard this person reciting Surat Al-Furqan in a way which you haven't taught me!" On that Allah's Apostle said, "Release him, (O `Umar!) Recite, O Hisham!" Then he recited in the same way as I heard him reciting. Then Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "It was revealed in this way," and added, "Recite, O `Umar!" I recited it as he had taught me. Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) then said, "It was revealed in this way. This Qur'an has been revealed to be recited in seven different ways, so recite of it whichever (way) is easier for you (or read as much of it as may be easy for you).

حَدَّثَنَا سَعِيدُ بْنُ عُفَيْرٍ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنِي اللَّيْثُ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنِي عُقَيْلٌ، عَنِ ابْنِ شِهَابٍ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنِي عُرْوَةُ بْنُ الزُّبَيْرِ، أَنَّ الْمِسْوَرَ بْنَ مَخْرَمَةَ، وَعَبْدَ الرَّحْمَنِ بْنَ عَبْدٍ الْقَارِيَّ، حَدَّثَاهُ أَنَّهُمَا، سَمِعَا عُمَرَ بْنَ الْخَطَّابِ، يَقُولُ سَمِعْتُ هِشَامَ بْنَ حَكِيمٍ، يَقْرَأُ سُورَةَ الْفُرْقَانِ فِي حَيَاةِ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَاسْتَمَعْتُ لِقِرَاءَتِهِ فَإِذَا هُوَ يَقْرَأُ عَلَى حُرُوفٍ كَثِيرَةٍ لَمْ يُقْرِئْنِيهَا رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَكِدْتُ أُسَاوِرُهُ فِي الصَّلاَةِ فَتَصَبَّرْتُ حَتَّى سَلَّمَ فَلَبَّبْتُهُ بِرِدَائِهِ فَقُلْتُ مَنْ أَقْرَأَكَ هَذِهِ السُّورَةَ الَّتِي سَمِعْتُكَ تَقْرَأُ‏.‏ قَالَ أَقْرَأَنِيهَا رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم‏.‏ فَقُلْتُ كَذَبْتَ فَإِنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَدْ أَقْرَأَنِيهَا عَلَى غَيْرِ مَا قَرَأْتَ، فَانْطَلَقْتُ بِهِ أَقُودُهُ إِلَى رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَقُلْتُ إِنِّي سَمِعْتُ هَذَا يَقْرَأُ بِسُورَةِ الْفُرْقَانِ عَلَى حُرُوفٍ لَمْ تُقْرِئْنِيهَا‏.‏ فَقَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏"‏ أَرْسِلْهُ اقْرَأْ يَا هِشَامُ ‏"‏‏.‏ فَقَرَأَ عَلَيْهِ الْقِرَاءَةَ الَّتِي سَمِعْتُهُ يَقْرَأُ‏.‏ فَقَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏"‏ كَذَلِكَ أُنْزِلَتْ ‏"‏‏.‏ ثُمَّ قَالَ ‏"‏ اقْرَأْ يَا عُمَرُ ‏"‏‏.‏ فَقَرَأْتُ الْقِرَاءَةَ الَّتِي أَقْرَأَنِي، فَقَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏"‏ كَذَلِكَ أُنْزِلَتْ، إِنَّ هَذَا الْقُرْآنَ أُنْزِلَ عَلَى سَبْعَةِ أَحْرُفٍ فَاقْرَءُوا مَا تَيَسَّرَ مِنْهُ ‏"‏‏.‏Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 4992In-book reference : Book 66, Hadith 14USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 6, Book 61, Hadith 514 (deprecated numbering scheme)
http://sunnah.com/urn/46690Regarding

the burning order, Uthmaan (may Allah be pleased with him) did it because of the confusion and turmoil, but this mosque was established by a sahaabah during the Prophet's time, therefore, it is likely that there were some authentic abrogated verses in them and also some verses which were unavailable to zaid ibn thaabit at the time of compilation, further study of the verses would only enlighten us as to the facts so that we don't have to lie to ourselves or to others, and it would be in keeping with the guidance of Allah since there is no haram and only good to be gained. Uthmaan's burning order appears to have been a drastic measure in order to avoid chaos, we have matured a lot since then and are able to make studies and comparisons, the sahabah who were in Yemen may have made a judgement call to save the scriptures in obedience to Allah - and Allah certainly knows best. There is room for a seperate scholarly study of apocrypha, and this applies to strange or doubtful ahadith too.
To understand the ijtihaad of preservation, read the following

Praise be to Allaah.

It was narrated from Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Do not write anything from me; whoever has written anything from me other than the Qur’aan, let him erase it and narrate from me, for there is nothing wrong with that.” (Narrated by Muslim, al-Zuhd wa’l-Raqaa’iq, 5326)

Al-Nawawi said in his commentary on Saheeh Muslim:

“Al-Qaadi said: there were many disputes among the Sahaabah and Taabi’een concerning the writing down of knowledge. Many of them regarded this as being makrooh, but most of them regarded it as permissible. This dispute is no longer an issue.

They differed as to the meaning of this hadeeth which says that it is forbidden. It was said that this pertained to one who was sure of his memory, and there was the fear that he may rely upon what he had written if he wrote it down; the ahaadeeth which say that it is permissible to write things down is to be interpreted as referring to the one whose memory is not reliable, such as the hadeeth, “Write it down for Abu Shaah”; or the hadeeth of the saheefah of ‘Ali (may Allaah be pleased with him); the hadeeth of the book of ‘Amr ibn Hazm, which contains laws on inheritance, sunnahs and diyaat (blood money); the hadeeth about writing down charity, and the minimum amounts at which zakaah becomes obligatory (nisaab), with which Abu Bakr sent Anas (may Allaah be pleased with him) to Bahrain; the hadeeth of Abu Hurayrah which says that Ibn ‘Amr ibn al-‘Aas used to ; write things down but he (Abu Hurayrah) did not write things down, and other ahaadeeth. And it was said that the hadeeth forbidding writing down ahaadeeth was abrogated by these ahaadeeth. The prohibition was in effect when there was the fear that (the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) might be mixed with the Qur’aan. When that danger was no longer present, permission was given to write down (ahaadeeth). And it was said that the prohibition mentioned in the hadeeth referred to writing ahaadeeth on the same page as Qur’aan, lest they become mixed and thus the reader would be confused when looking at this page. And Allaah knows best.

The hadeeth of Abu Shaah was narrated by al-Bukhaari from Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him), who said: ‘When Allaah granted His Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) victory over Makkah, he stood before the people and praised and glorified Allaah, then he said: “Allaah protected Makkah from the elephant and has given authority to His Messenger and the believers over it, so fighting was forbidden for anyone before me, and was made permissible for me for part of a day, and it will not be permissible for anyone after me. Its game should not be chased, its thorny bushes should not be uprooted, and picking up its fallen things is not allowed except for one who makes public announcement for it, and he whose relative is murdered has the option either to accept a compensation for it or to retaliate.” Al-‘Abbas said, “Except Al-Idhkhir (a kind of plant), for we use it in our graves and houses.” The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “Except Al-Idhkhir.” Abu Shaah, a Yemeni, stood up and said, “O Messenger of Allaah! Get it written for me.” The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “Write it for Abu Shaah.” (al-Luqatah, 2254)

Ibn Hajar said: What may be understood from the story of Abu Shaah (“Write it for Abu Shaah”) is that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) gave permission for hadeeth to be written down from him.

This contradicts the hadeeth of Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri, which says that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, ‘Do not write down anything from me except the Qur’aan.’ (Narrated by Muslim).

The two may be reconciled by noting that the prohibition applied only to the time when the Qur’aan was being revealed, lest it be confused with something else, and that permission was given at other times; or that the prohibition applied only to writing down things other than Qur’aan with the Qur’aan on one thing, and that permission was given to write them separately; of that the prohibition came first and the permission abrogated that, when there was no longer any fear of confusion. This is most likely to be the case.

It was said that the prohibition applied only to those whom it was feared would depend on the writing and not memorize things, and that permission was given for those from whom such a thing was not feared.

The scholars said: a group of the Sahaabah and Taabi’een regarded it as makrooh to write down the hadeeth and they regarded it as mustahabb to learn it from them by heart, as they had learned it. But when people were no longer able to strive so hard (in memorizing) and the scholars feared that knowledge might be lost, they compiled it in books.”

https://islamqa.info/en/22394

Regarding the murtad burning order given by Ali (ra) this is forbidden and haraam even for the Prophet pbuh, i believe (if he did so) he was unaware of the occasion when the Prophet peace be upon him ordered it and then forbade it after becoming aware that this is a punishment that is reserved exclusively for the creator of the heavens and the earth. i pray that Allah has mercy on Ali who i sincerely believe was a believer who was truthful to Allah and His messenger.
Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57:Narrated 'Ikrima:
Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

 

[talibilm]

It is one of the miracles of the Qur'an. Written scriptures can be tampered with, as have happened with all previous scriptures. But Allah :swt: preserved the Qur'an by a unique method, memorization and oral recitation. I had posted this in another thread earlier:

This is undisputable Proof & the Miracle UNIQUE only to the Noble Quran by which Allah perfectly preserved since the Power of Memory (even by kids less than 10) and recitation is so great none can deny.

I am some times blamed on my memory but when i tried singing of rhymes which i did when i was a kid and I can still sing those rhymes though I have not sung them for 4 decades , This is the wonder of memory of recitations.

So No other scripture has this advantage of DAILY USE since Muslims are compelled to memorize their noble Quran as we have to read them in our DAILY 5 times prayers without holding them in our hand (unlike Jews) and are obliged to teach our kids and many companions of prophet used to finish the whole Quran with in a couple of days from memory and continued their practice untill death, similar were tabieens and tabe tabieens the 2 and 3rd generations after prophet :saws: was how the Noble Quran was guarded with a TRIPLE CHECK method

1) in writing with from eye witnessess, 10000's of them
2) recitation in 5 daily prayers and night prayers, nafl prayers
3) As a hand book referred frequently to know the various laws of their whole Life

 

[AabiruSabeel]

it is likely that there were some authentic abrogated verses in them and also some verses which were unavailable to zaid ibn thaabit at the time of compilation

This is a false assumption. Everything was recorded perfectly by Zaid bin Thabit :ra: and not a single Ayah was missed. There were several Huffaz sahabah alive at that time and also at the time of 'Uthman :ra: who cross-checked the compilation.
Zaid :ra: says:

Narrated Kharija bin Zaid:
Zaid bin Thabit said, "When the Qur'an was compiled from various written manuscripts, one of the Verses of Surat Al-Ahzab was missing which I used to hear Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) reciting. I could not find it except with Khuza`ima bin Thabjt Al-Ansari, whose witness Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) regarded as equal to the witness of two men. And the Verse was:-- "Among the believers are men who have been true to what they covenanted with Allah." (33.23) [Bukhari]
​

In another narration,

I found the last verses of Surat-at-Tauba: ("Verily there has come unto you an Apostle (Muhammad) from amongst yourselves--' (9.128-129) ) from Khuza`ima or Abi Khuza`ima and I added to it the rest of the Sura. [Bukhari]​

Had there been any other Ayah missing which he used to hear Allah's Messenger :saws: reciting, he would have mentioned it as well.

 

[Serinity]

If I want to learn how to bake bread, I go to a baker - not a car mechanic.

Scimi

Unless u want a bread that is a car instead - eat that car! That is your "bread".

 

[talibilm]

This is a false assumption. Everything was recorded perfectly by Zaid bin Thabit :ra: and not a single Ayah was missed. There were several Huffaz sahabah alive at that time and also at the time of 'Uthman :ra: who cross-checked the compilation.
Zaid :ra: says:

Narrated Kharija bin Zaid:
Zaid bin Thabit said, "When the Qur'an was compiled from various written manuscripts, one of the Verses of Surat Al-Ahzab was missing which I used to hear Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) reciting. I could not find it except with Khuza`ima bin Thabjt Al-Ansari, whose witness Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) regarded as equal to the witness of two men. And the Verse was:-- "Among the believers are men who have been true to what they covenanted with Allah." (33.23) [Bukhari]
​

In another narration,

I found the last verses of Surat-at-Tauba: ("Verily there has come unto you an Apostle (Muhammad) from amongst yourselves--' (9.128-129) ) from Khuza`ima or Abi Khuza`ima and I added to it the rest of the Sura. [Bukhari]​

Had there been any other Ayah missing which he used to hear Allah's Messenger :saws: reciting, he would have mentioned it as well.

Yes this true and another fact becomes implied if we give our Precise attention to theis words of Zaid ibn Thabit R.A who was the HEAD , of Both the teams even during the Noble Quran 's so called first compilation one year after Prophet :saws: demise during Caliph Abu Bakr R.A and also during the first Reaffirmation 20 years later in 653 AD by Caliph Uthman R.A.

Bukhari :: Book 6 :: Volume 61 :: Hadith 511
Narrated Zaid bin Thabit: Abu Bakr sent for me and said, "You used to write the Divine Revelations for Allah's Apostle : So you should search for (the Qur'an and collect) it." I started searching for the Qur'an till I found the last two Verses of Surat At-Tauba with Abi Khuzaima Al-Ansari and I could not find these Verses with anybody other than him. (They were):



this perfectly IMPLIES all other verses of Noble Quran were found with multiple people (proofs as parchments ) but ONLY these 2 verses of S tauba were found ONLY with Abi Khuzaima Al Ansari R.A.

Its also very important to take note of those last MANY sermons of Haj (put together as One hadith later by Ahmad & others ) WHICH IMO ARE THE STRONGEST OF ALL HADITHS SINCE THE WITNESSES WERE IN 10,000'S WHICH ALSO CLEARLY SAID [MENTION=36347]nbegam[/MENTION]



تركت فيكم ما إن تمسكتم به لن تضلوا بعدي أبداَ كتاب الله و سنتي

رواه مسلم

Translation:

''I am leaving behind Allah's Book and my Sunnah. You will never be astray after me, as long as you hold fast to these two.''

wallahu aalam. @nbegam

Bro @Abz2000, may this hadith be noted too ( bukhari Book #60, Hadith #60)

Narrated Ibn Az-Zubair: I said to 'Uthman, "This Verse which is in Surat-al-Baqara: "Those of you who die and leave widows behind...without turning them out." has been abrogated by another Verse. Why then do you write it (in the Qur'an)?" 'Uthman said. "Leave it (where it is), O the son of my brother, for I will not shift anything of it (i.e. the quran) from its original position."