French minister: Muslim women who wear veils like ‘negroes’ supporting slavery

Pygoscelis said:
I agree. We should be listening to the muslima women themselves, and not to our own biases and preconceived ideas.

I wonder though, while I strongly support a muslima's right to wear what she wants (as well as a man to wear a turban or long beard or whatever he wants), how many of you here would join me in also supporting the rights of nudists to wear what they want (nothing at all)?
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Peace friend. They can wear what they want in their own community but when it comes to public, they cant do this. The freedom of someone ends where it disturbs the freedom of another one. Seeing naked people disgusts people generally.
 
sister herb said:
As trying to be honest and equal, I have to admit that if we wish to receive fair treatment to ourselves we also should be ready to protect rights of others...

:embarrass
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I think I heard somewhere that some parts of the USA are allowing men to enter female washrooms. Because they identify with the female gender ?
 
anatolian said:
Peace friend. They can wear what they want in their own community but when it comes to public, they cant do this. The freedom of someone ends where it disturbs the freedom of another one. Seeing naked people disgusts people generally.
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The counter argument could be made that women who wear the hijab / niqab feel disgusted by that too. [emoji24][emoji24][emoji24][emoji24][emoji24]
 
^^ I think it means the transgender people. Some of those might be changing their gender. Discussing about them in Islamic perspective would to be interesting but I think it deserves it´s own thread.
 
sister herb said:
^^ I think it means the transgender people. Some of those might be changing their gender. Discussing about them in Islamic perspective would to be interesting but I think it deserves it´s own thread.
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I would like to hear this. Would you make it ? [emoji851][emoji851][emoji851][emoji851][emoji18]
 
Bhabha said:
The counter argument could be made that women who wear the hijab / niqab feel disgusted by that too. [emoji24][emoji24][emoji24][emoji24][emoji24]
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That´s right. Many say this when they try to limit the right´s of Muslim women to wear as they wish. But when we are living in same society together, we have to find some amount of tolerance to accept the differences of others.
 
Bhabha said:
The counter argument could be made that women who wear the hijab / niqab feel disgusted by that too. [emoji24][emoji24][emoji24][emoji24][emoji24]
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Salam sis. Yes, if wearing hijab or niqab feels most of the people that way "disgusting" or "disturbing their freedom" in a community then they should not wear hijab or niqab in that community.

However, I dont know any community on the earth that feels it about at least for hijab. People in non-muslim or even in secular muslim communities generally think that way for niqab.
 
anatolian said:
Peace friend. They can wear what they want in their own community but when it comes to public, they cant do this. The freedom of someone ends where it disturbs the freedom of another one. Seeing naked people disgusts people generally.
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Seeing people dressed from head to toe in giant black sacks also disgusts and disturbs a lot of people, such as those mentioned in the OP. I can allow for both, and I note the hypocrisy on either side that won't allow for the other. I can also speak directly with both groups and dispel the myths and preconceptions about them. For example, nudism isn't about sex anymore than burkas are about repression.
 
Pygoscelis said:
Seeing people dressed from head to toe in giant black sacks also disgusts and disturbs a lot of people, such as those mentioned in the OP. I can allow for both, and I note the hypocrisy on either side that won't allow for the other. I can also speak directly with both groups and dispel the myths and preconceptions about them. For example, nudism isn't about sex anymore than burkas are about repression.
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Are you referring to abayas? I wear these plastic bags.

What is nudism about ?
 
Bhabha said:
Are you referring to abayas? I wear these plastic bags.

What is nudism about ?
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I was refering to burkas. Many closed minded people have a very visceral reaction of disgust and discomfort to them.... just as many have a visceral reaction of disgust to nudity.

Most nudists I have met consider nudism to be about the freedom to be as they were born/created, without covering anything up, to bathe and relax under the sun and feel the wind and sunrays upon their skin. Some of them even consider it a religious experience (the hippy types). Being the liberal and adventurous person that I am, I have visited them in a nudist resort, and I was surprised just how non-sexual it all was and how very quickly I forgot I and others were nude. Once the social taboo is absent, the mindset completely changes.

The only real concern I have for nudism is sanitary, just as the only real concern I have for muslimas covering their faces is security. There are situations where these concerns are relevant or even paramount (ie, naked people on a crowded bus, or muslima getting a photo driver ID), but for the most part where these people want to do their thing, they are not.
 
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Pygoscelis said:
Seeing people dressed from head to toe in giant black sacks also disgusts and disturbs a lot of people, such as those mentioned in the OP. I can allow for both, and I note the hypocrisy on either side that won't allow for the other. I can also speak directly with both groups and dispel the myths and preconceptions about them. For example, nudism isn't about sex anymore than burkas are about repression.
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Peace Pygoscelis. If the majority in a society feels that seeing people dressed from head to toe in giant black sacks in that way "disturbs their freedom" then yes those people should not wear it. But there is a very tiny border here. If seeing a woman wearing hijab or niqab or burka or whatever she wears makes people annoying because they think it is an oppression on women doesnt mean that it disturbs their freedom. They may get on well with those women in public. But living with naked people in the same society disturbs my freedom of travelling. I will not go to the places where I may see those naked people.

Once I have been to Barcelona, Spain. The city has a long beach from one side to another side of the city and I saw naked people on that publicly open beach. I felt disgusted and didnt want go there. This disturbed my freedom of going somewhere. But it seems that this doesnt disturb the majority of Barcelonians for they allow public nudity over there. But I think if you go around naked in the Vatican city it will disturb the majority of people living there. So you cant be naked in that city.
 
^ So by that logic why complain about a ban on head veils in France? It isn't Saudi Arabia (where such things are accepted). It is France.
 
Pygoscelis said:
^ So by that logic why complain about a ban on head veils in France? It isn't Saudi Arabia (where such things are accepted). It is France.
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And this is another dimension of this discussion. Does that ban in France come from the majority of French society or is it just a dictation of a group of elected elites? If the first one, yes mulim women in France must obey that law, but if the second no they dont have to obey it and keep their rights.
 
Banning head veils in France from Muslim women doesn´t sound that it would respect the equality in the society. They should instead make the law that not any person is allowed to cover their hairs in public by any kind of way, including hats. But how this would work that soon the government decides every details about dressing by laws? Sooner or later there should to be special laws how every person in France have to dress. The unique French uniform to everyone?

Regulations and restrictions relate to a single group of people seems to be against human rights agreements as well the basics of sense.
 
sister herb said:
Banning head veils in France from Muslim women doesn´t sound that it would respect the equality in the society. They should instead make the law that not any person is allowed to cover their hairs in public by any kind of way, including hats. But how this would work that soon the government decides every details about dressing by laws? Sooner or later there should to be special laws how every person in France have to dress. The unique French uniform to everyone?

Regulations and restrictions relate to a single group of people seems to be against human rights agreements as well the basics of sense.
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Salam sis. You are right if it restricts only a group of people but I think the situation in France is about security. Covering face hides the identity. Head scarves are not disallowed in France as far as I know.
 
anatolian said:
Salam sis. You are right if it restricts only a group of people but I think the situation in France is about security. Covering face hides the identity. Head scarves are not disallowed in France as far as I know.
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Nothing to do with security. It has to do with the insecurity of the French to recognize a changing population. As well as the insecurity of the French in recognizing that Islam is no longer relegated to the exterior of French society.
 
sister herb said:
Well, the head scarf ban will be the next step.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...islamic-headscarves-universities-manuel-valls



"Liberté, égalité, fraternité" or how it went...
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French society has never been about recognizing these things unfortunately. Right after the French did their whole French Revolution, their Haitian colony underwent revolution too and they failed to recognize the rights of the Haitian people to emancipate themselves. Thinking them less capable of worthy [emoji24][emoji24][emoji24][emoji24][emoji174]

However. The more Europe makes restrictions against Islam. The more people convert as a result and ironically the stronger Muslim identity tends to become as women assert their rights to be Muslim :)
 
Bhabha said:
However. The more Europe makes restrictions against Islam. The more people convert as a result and ironically the stronger Muslim identity tends to become as women assert their rights to be Muslim
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This so true subhanAllah. What happens is when Islam is given such negative media coverage, many people decide to investigate this claim for themselves and in the process discover the true beauty of the Deen. Gosh, the irony!

And the headscarf is banned in all public buildings, most infamously including schools. Any Muslim girls are forbidden from wearing the hijab in school premises.
 

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