Women these days...

[Serinity]

It seems like there is this gender rivalry. Lets not demonize those women who want to stay at home and do housework.

It is commendable and encouraged for a woman to stay at home and do her motherly duties as well as fulfill the rights of the husband over her. In fact, this is in accordance to the blessed teachings of the Holy Quran and that of the prophet (SAW). It is only in this way, you will be able to have a proper Islamic home with the children growing under the guidance, supervision, care and training of the mother who is the ‘first Islamic Institute’ of the child.


A woman can work, but it isn't essential of her, Islamically she doesn't have to pay for the rent or expenses. So if she chooses to work, the husband can not demand his wife to pay the expenses, etc. Afaik.

May Allah SWT forgive me if I said anything wrong.

Source:
http://islamqa.org/hanafi/darululoomtt/52507

And Allah SWT knows best.

 

[muslimah_B]

It's not about trying to be a man. If I wanted to be a man I'd lift weights, watch football and get a job in construction. Most women don't want to be categorised... ie you are a women so you belong in the kitchen. I am a women and I belong wherever the hell I choose. Same rights as a man.

If I wanted to cook for a living I'd be a chef, if I wanted to clean for a living I'd be a maid. I want to do what I want, not what people think I should be doing. Yes I would cook for my husband and clean the house and take care of the kids but I also expect my husband to do his fair share to help out. I totally understand if he works all day and I do not, then I would not even want him to lift a finger with the chores because he works all day so the household duties fall to the wife.

You have to understand that people are different and want different things. Some women may love nothing more than to be at home all day cooking and cleaning for their husband and to serve his food and this brings them great joy, fantastic, hooray for you. Some women don't like to do this but seeking an alternative to cooking and cleaning is somehow being feminist. It's called having equal rights.

Even if my husband earned £125k a year I would still WANT to work. Not to show him that I'm "a man" but because I want my own self accomplishment and I want to be successful.

I have no problem with men that want their wives to be maids, what I have a problem with is when they think that is where we belong. If my husband tried forcing me to be a hermit maid and stay in doors all day I'd tell him to sling his hook.

Just by your 1st paragraph your sterotyping and putting yourself into that catogory.
Men and women where created different and have different roles,
Its not about doing what you want, its about doing what Allah commands you to do, and part of Allahs commands are to obey your husband.

I never said not wanting to do those thinhs equals feminist, i said thinking those roles of a wife wich can include that make a women lesser or looked down upon,

What does cooking and cleaning have to do with equal rights.
Islam laid down the foundation of equal rights in terms of emaan spirituality and education, islam laid down the rights of women long before these wackos decided to "speak up".. if people followed the Quran and sunnah properly there would be no such thing as feminists

The husband has rights over his wife and the wife has rights over her husband, its as simple as that

Successful people are those who see that pleasing Allah comes 1st not being successful in this dunya,
when this dunya is but a playground for the shaytan making people chase money, fame and status.

I will not have a feminist tell me that to be equal to a man i must work or do what a man does to be equal
I will do what Allah commands me to do to the best of my ability, not what some wackos think is best for me to not feel like a "maid"

Your not cooking and cleaning for a living, your cooking and cleaning for your family, for yourself

If a woman wants to work then it should be away from men, fully coverd and doing something that is helpfull for women, like i said before, doctors surgeons, alimahs, muftiahs, teachers (things that can help sisters avoid having to see or speak to men)

If you married a man and he earns enough to feed you, clothe you, keep a roof over your head, is kind to you, gives you your rights then ALHAMDULILAH, if he doesn't want you to work then you obey your husband because that is what ALLAH HAS COMMANDED, there is no grounds for divorce on that matter

The husband doesnt tell you to stay inside... Allah actually does lol unless out of necessity or going to the masjid to pray or learn, fully covered.

*“And stay in your houses, and do not display yourselves like that of the times of ignorance” [al-Ahzaab 33:33].
This verse was to the wives of prophet mohammed s.a.w but also is for the believing women

 

[Serinity]

The women is degrading herself by comparing herself and her worth to a man, by feeling inferior just because men are stronger, have more authority, etc.

In the military the standards are lowered for women to enter, why? cause they can not handle the training men go through. Is this sexist? no.

There are things men are better at than women.

This whole trying to equalise men and women is pretty pathetic. We are different. A man can not raise a child the way women do. They can not be 'feminine'.

The society is set up to subjugate women and to make them feel like having to 'prove' themselves to men. The society is purely objectifying women, under the disguise of being 'liberal'.

 

[EgyptPrincess]

Just by your 1st paragraph your sterotyping and putting yourself into that catogory.
Men and women where created different and have different roles,
Its not about doing what you want, its about doing what Allah commands you to do, and part of Allahs commands are to obey your husband.

I never said not wanting to do those thinhs equals feminist, i said thinking those roles of a wife wich can include that make a women lesser or looked down upon,

What does cooking and cleaning have to do with equal rights.
Islam laid down the foundation of equal rights in terms of emaan spirituality and education, islam laid down the rights of women long before these wackos decided to "speak up".. if people followed the Quran and sunnah properly there would be no such thing as feminists

The husband has rights over his wife and the wife has rights over her husband, its as simple as that

Successful people are those who see that pleasing Allah comes 1st not being successful in this dunya,
when this dunya is but a playground for the shaytan making people chase money, fame and status.

I will not have a feminist tell me that to be equal to a man i must work or do what a man does to be equal
I will do what Allah commands me to do to the best of my ability, not what some wackos think is best for me to not feel like a "maid"

Your not cooking and cleaning for a living, your cooking and cleaning for your family, for yourself

If a woman wants to work then it should be away from men, fully coverd and doing something that is helpfull for women, like i said before, doctors surgeons, alimahs, muftiahs, teachers (things that can help sisters avoid having to see or speak to men)

If you married a man and he earns enough to feed you, clothe you, keep a roof over your head, is kind to you, gives you your rights then ALHAMDULILAH, if he doesn't want you to work then you obey your husband because that is what ALLAH HAS COMMANDED, there is no grounds for divorce on that matter

The husband doesnt tell you to stay inside... Allah actually does lol unless out of necessity or going to the masjid to pray or learn, fully covered.

*“And stay in your houses, and do not display yourselves like that of the times of ignorance” [al-Ahzaab 33:33].
This verse was to the wives of prophet mohammed s.a.w but also is for the believing women

Simple solution then, I'll marry a man which does not command me to do certain things. Then there can be no disobeying him because he never commanded me anything I would just lay down some ground rules for him and make sure we're both on the same page. Different people like different style of marriage so I'd let him know from the start that I'm not to be bossed around and to be allowed to work. If he doesn't agree then I'll find another man.

 

[EgyptPrincess]

The women is degrading herself by comparing herself and her worth to a man, by feeling inferior just because men are stronger, have more authority, etc.

In the military the standards are lowered for women to enter, why? cause they can not handle the training men go through. Is this sexist? no.

There are things men are better at than women.

This whole trying to equalise men and women is pretty pathetic. We are different. A man can not raise a child the way women do. They can not be 'feminine'.

The society is set up to subjugate women and to make them feel like having to 'prove' themselves to men. The society is purely objectifying women, under the disguise of being 'liberal'.

I agree that men are stronger than women of course, I don't think there are many women that actually believe they're equal to men in terms of strength... That's just stupid.

I have authority over the man, not the other way around in my dreams I guess.

 

[Cpt.America]

OK Assume you get married then your husband doesn't like that you want to go to university or he starts pressuring you to start cooking and cleaning etc. How can you possibly manage a full time degree while living at home cooking and cleaning all day? You'd have to find a man that would be willing from the start to accept that you're going to uni and when you leave uni you want to start your career.

Have to lay it out for them in advance so they know.

Exactly.
These things have to be discussed between the two potentials and their families prior to getting married.
If you want to study, and your potential says 'no' they don't like that, then he isn't the person you want to get married to. Simple.

A couple I know, who are both studying, have chosen not to be domestic yet (because they're both studying), but they're married instead of taking one of those several year long engagements (which aren't halal anyway).
They take vacations together and spend weekends and breaks together when they can, but they're planning on really doing the whole domestic bit and all that after they graduate InshaaAllah.
How you run your marriage is between your spouse and you. As, the sister mentioned above, It's not like marriage suddenly means you have to drop everything and live some sortof stereotypical life (which is cultural as opposed to Islamic anyway).
Keep away from the haram and keep to the halal, and that's really all the guidelines we need, the rest we can fill in however we please.

 

[Karl]

I think you have this completely backwards. You may be comfortable being 100% reliant on your husband for money, food, clothing and your home but many women feel incredibly vulnerable with this level of dependence. What if 10 years down the line the marriage does not work out and you have to divorce? You are left with no job, no education, no money, no way to feed or clothe yourself, no home and no leg to stand on. You pretty much will be forced to stay with your husband out of fear of being left with nothing. Perhaps you have your parents to go back to or something but it's still a horrible feeling of being powerless to sustain your own life.

Now the second option is to delay marriage for a while, get an education, get a career so you have your own source of income. Then get married, both work and contribute towards a functioning household and during this time, you can work and save up a nice chunk of money for if things ever take a turn for the worse. Then when you have children you can quit your job while he works and once the kids are old enough to go to school, you can return to work part time or something of that nature.

Then 10 years down the line if things don't work out at least you have money to rent your own place, feed yourself etc. You'll have an education that will last a lifetime. You have previous work experience so finding another job will be a piece of cake and most importantly, you won't be forced to stay in a marriage you detest.

Naturally men don't like this way of thinking because they no longer have 100% control over us and that creates an unsettling picture for them. Now men are forced to respect their wives fully otherwise we'll be out the door and I imagine they dislike that.

Wouldn't it be easier to re marry after a divorce. Especially if you want to have children. It is best to have at least one baby within the second decade of life. Some women make the mistake of leaving it too late.

 

[EgyptPrincess]

Wouldn't it be easier to re marry after a divorce. Especially if you want to have children. It is best to have at least one baby within the second decade of life. Some women make the mistake of leaving it too late.

Perhaps but I don't think it's as easy as just go and get another husband. It may take you a year or even longer and then if you have kids some men won't want to marry a women with kids already etc. I bet there are some men and women who're in they're late 20's and still not married so I don't think it's this simple.

 

[Karl]

Perhaps but I don't think it's as easy as just go and get another husband. It may take you a year or even longer and then if you have kids some men won't want to marry a women with kids already etc. I bet there are some men and women who're in they're late 20's and still not married so I don't think it's this simple.

Shouldn't the dowry cover that? Not all females are academics. This Helen Reddy attitude that females can do anything is very destructive to motherhood. It is also against Islamic values. I cannot find in the Quran that females should spend so much time in Universities in the pursuit of money. It says Allah will provide. What is more important, greed for money or having a family? To me the feminist movement comes across very Satanic. I suppose all the modern Western culture comes across Satanic because it probably is.

 

[Bhabha]

Nothing to do with greed or having money. Unfortunately marriages now a days are not all that and a bag of chips. I know some women who are so good to their husbands and their husband left them and married someone else. What can a woman do who might not have family to support her later? What can a woman do when she is married and her husband gets up and leaves her? Will she go and ask for shelter? Go and beg for mercy? As far as I know the husband is not obliged to give the wife anything if they are divorcing. Because he provided for her, correct?

So let's say God forbid a woman marries a man that later becomes abusive. She is good and he is a dink. He doesn't want to leave her because he doesn't want to divorce her and he is an abusive person. So what is she going to do? Obviously return the mahr the sink gave her and leave him.

Then, let's say this happened after they were maybe 20 years together he became abusive, her family is probably dead and her children are not old enough to support her. Where does she go? Oops nowhere because let's face it, the Muslim community is not strong enough to help women in need and the sad reality is that the response will be have patience sister, meanwhile she is being abused.

But what about a woman who isn't at the mercy of a man like that? She can actually survive if he decides to leave her or if she decides to leave his abuse.

So yes work is important, because not all men are angels to actually give women their rights. If we lived in a perfect world. Sure I don't think any one of us would actually want to work, unfortunately men and women are fickle and I would rather not be at the mercy of someone who might be prove to be mentally and emotionally abusive, specially when I do not have a Muslim family to back me up.

 

[Bhabha]

And اللهُ does provide. Nowhere does it say women cannot work and nowhere does it say women cannot use their talents. If اللهُ gave a woman talents to study, to be creative, to research, to learn etc. Then these are best fulfilled at a university.

If a woman has a job and has an education, is it not because اللهُ has provided her with the means to support herself? Things do not grow on trees, people need money to survive. Organizations will not donate a single cent to you, at all because all of that goes into the imaginary hands of helpless children advertised on webpages.

It is like the person that was in the middle of the ocean sinking and asking God for help. God sent three boats to help him! But he told each of these boats no, because he was waiting for God to help him. Let us not be blind to the realities of this world. It is overcrowded, the schools teach garbage, do we desperately need to bring children to this world? Or should we not strive to fix it a little before bringing them forth?

 

[Futuwwa]

Simple solution then, I'll marry a man which does not command me to do certain things. Then there can be no disobeying him because he never commanded me anything I would just lay down some ground rules for him and make sure we're both on the same page. Different people like different style of marriage so I'd let him know from the start that I'm not to be bossed around and to be allowed to work. If he doesn't agree then I'll find another man.

That is certainly your prerogative to do. The majority view about Islamic marriage is that it's entirely legitimate to add any kind of clauses and special conditions into the nikah, the marriage contract. Anything goes, as long as it's agreed-on and not haram outright.

 

[keiv]

I think it's romantic if a man can cook for me once in a while but I don't think it's fair to bundle women as cooks and cleaners while men have the careers, money and education. If me and my husband work, I expect us to split the responsibilities fairly so we both do our part. Any husband that thinks he can just marry a women and after she comes home from a hard days work just start cleaning and cooking is going to be in for a major shock.

Some women love cleaning and cooking and providing these things to their husbands but I hate cleaning and cooking. I think men need to start accepting that women are becoming more independent and as such, chores around the house need to be shared. So cmon men, get your rubber gloves on, there's a bucket and brush under the sink, start scrubbing that toilet.

Well, it's all about perspective I guess. If I work a 70+ hours in a week doing physical work and my wife works in a cubicle sitting in front of the computer, I'll be damned if I'm getting on my knees scrubbing the floor. There is absolutely nothing wrong with sharing that responsibility but, again, it's not something that you can look at and say "ok both of us work so we both have to split the chores in half". Now if only one of you are working, then the person who isn't working better be up for it. Just so you get a better picture of me, I'm not married and I live on my own so I've been self sufficient my whole life, so I don't have a "maid" at home working for me.

Also be careful for what you ask for. If you want to work for the rest of your adult life until you retire (if you retire), then by all means go for it. If you want to get married and the guy is working but you also want to peruse a career and both of you agree on that, then go for it. If you end up getting married and both have successful careers and you finally decide to want a family, then what? Whose the one who gets to quit their job? Neither of you want to quit? Ok, how about day care? Oh wait, how much do we have to pay for someone to raise our kids for us?? Can we even trust them? Ok, how about family? Lets ask our moms to take turns taking care of our kids for us. The moms who already spent their lives raising kids of their own but now we are forcing them to raise ours? Wait, our parents live in a different country/state, do we move mom to our house? Can't afford it? Ok lets move into mom's place.. You see where this is going?

I don't know about the rest of the guys here but, I work because I have to.. Not because I want to show some kind of self accomplishment. Don't get me wrong either, I absolutely agree with women wanting to get an education and being able to provide for themselves if it comes down to that because we live in a time where things aren't what they used to be and everywhere you look, people are getting divorced left and right so it's important for both men and women to have the capability to earn some kind of income but, if you simply want to work for the sake of arguing that "anything you can do I can do better", I'll tell you right now there are much greater things you can do if you're all about accomplishing goals.

One last thing. I don't know how old you are, if you work or how many jobs you've had but, there is nothing glamorous about working a full time job. If you work for fun or have a part time job to make some extra spending money here and there, that's one thing. Working out of necessity and to be a provider is a completely different ball game. Just remember that you're a number out there and that there is always someone behind you to take your spot. It's a very competitive world our there and it can get nasty. It doesn't matter how many years of experience you have, what kind of education you have, or how loyal you were to your employer, you may be laid off with no option for a rehire just like that for no reason (at least where I live). Even if that's illegal where you're from, there are ways around it. The market for your type of work may not be in demand so getting another job won't always be easy. Even if other companies are hiring, you may be OVER qualified, so now if the employer is interested in you, you will probably have to take a pay cut. I can go on with the different scenarios but this is already getting pretty long. Just a few things to think about.

I don't come on here often so I had to lay it all out there at once. My intention isn't to offend anyone either, so please don't take it that way

 

[EgyptPrincess]

Well, it's all about perspective I guess. If I work a 70+ hours in a week doing physical work and my wife works in a cubicle sitting in front of the computer, I'll be damned if I'm getting on my knees scrubbing the floor. There is absolutely nothing wrong with sharing that responsibility but, again, it's not something that you can look at and say "ok both of us work so we both have to split the chores in half". Now if only one of you are working, then the person who isn't working better be up for it. Just so you get a better picture of me, I'm not married and I live on my own so I've been self sufficient my whole life, so I don't have a "maid" at home working for me.

Also be careful for what you ask for. If you want to work for the rest of your adult life until you retire (if you retire), then by all means go for it. If you want to get married and the guy is working but you also want to peruse a career and both of you agree on that, then go for it. If you end up getting married and both have successful careers and you finally decide to want a family, then what? Whose the one who gets to quit their job? Neither of you want to quit? Ok, how about day care? Oh wait, how much do we have to pay for someone to raise our kids for us?? Can we even trust them? Ok, how about family? Lets ask our moms to take turns taking care of our kids for us. The moms who already spent their lives raising kids of their own but now we are forcing them to raise ours? Wait, our parents live in a different country/state, do we move mom to our house? Can't afford it? Ok lets move into mom's place.. You see where this is going?

I don't know about the rest of the guys here but, I work because I have to.. Not because I want to show some kind of self accomplishment. Don't get me wrong either, I absolutely agree with women wanting to get an education and being able to provide for themselves if it comes down to that because we live in a time where things aren't what they used to be and everywhere you look, people are getting divorced left and right so it's important for both men and women to have the capability to earn some kind of income but, if you simply want to work for the sake of arguing that "anything you can do I can do better", I'll tell you right now there are much greater things you can do if you're all about accomplishing goals.

One last thing. I don't know how old you are, if you work or how many jobs you've had but, there is nothing glamorous about working a full time job. If you work for fun or have a part time job to make some extra spending money here and there, that's one thing. Working out of necessity and to be a provider is a completely different ball game. Just remember that you're a number out there and that there is always someone behind you to take your spot. It's a very competitive world our there and it can get nasty. It doesn't matter how many years of experience you have, what kind of education you have, or how loyal you were to your employer, you may be laid off with no option for a rehire just like that for no reason (at least where I live). Even if that's illegal where you're from, there are ways around it. The market for your type of work may not be in demand so getting another job won't always be easy. Even if other companies are hiring, you may be OVER qualified, so now if the employer is interested in you, you will probably have to take a pay cut. I can go on with the different scenarios but this is already getting pretty long. Just a few things to think about.

I don't come on here often so I had to lay it all out there at once. My intention isn't to offend anyone either, so please don't take it that way

No offence taken and you make some great points. When it comes to one of you quitting your job I think it should obviously be the women because ultimately, children need their mothers and I do not agree with letting someone else raise your children. Money would not really be an issue for those years you spend raising the children because all the time you and your husband spent working you would have saved up a nice bit of money which means one of you can afford to quit your job and still meet the financial requirements for a good few years if the husband keeps working while you stay home and raise the kids.

I'm 17 and never had a job before but I'm not talking about working in Tesco or a call centre, who the hell would actually want to do that? Not me that's for sure. I hope to pursue a career in biochemistry and I'm super excited about the prospects of working in this field so naturally I'm really looking forward to getting my first job. There is always the risk of unemployment and hardships etc but some people honestly do want to work, I don't know why this is so hard to believe. Especially if the field they work in is exciting.

 

[Arfa]

Walikumassalam,
In today's culture it's pretty common to hire maids too.Specially in Pakistan maids are hired for household chores which is good when amount of work is over loaded.Im fond of cooking for my family and absolutely love it when my dad appreciates my cooking.Cleaning,Dusting and mopping are also some of the chores that are involved.....It's essential to learn these skills to such an extent atleast where you can feed yourself and your family if occasion provides.Husband should also accept what little skills wife has and probably rely sometimes on takeaway if wife is sick or not in mood to cook etc.Marriage is truly all about teamwork and cooperation.Moreover One should atleast know basics about theses skills and try to compensate from that level onwards.

 

[Delphi]

It's nice to see people who are muslim taking a varied and one might say "liberated" approach to gender. I was always convinced "it wasn't about what you are wearing, but what's in your heart". I find this thread a bit refreshing, and a wake up call to people who are mindlessly bigotted.
Feminism to me is an extension of the west's life blood. Freedom, Egalite, Liberte, Fraternite. The right to do what you want, as long as it doesn't hurt other people. An end to religious superstition and taboos that kept humanity enslaved and in darkness for thousands of years. I'm an agnostic - I apply that principle across most/all religions, especially any religion that seeks to co-erce using force (most did pre 100 years ago). It's that principle of freedom, tolerance, and equal rights for all that's led the west to try and co-operate with all nations on earth and seek a global peace. It's that freedom that guarantees equal rights based on grounds of religion. It's freedom for all, or freedom for none. Please remember this the next time you look badly upon a western GLBT or feminist. Generally, so far, we've stood behind islamic liberty.

 

[Karl]

"It's that principle of freedom, tolerance, and equal rights for all that's led the west to try and co-operate with all nations on earth and seek a global peace." Are you kidding? The West is about control and oppression under the Zionist boot. If a nation does not cow tow to the West it is attacked with propaganda, meddled with by paid agitators to destabilize the government and if that doesn't work bombed to destruction. The West is the Beast at this point of time, playing the Angel while slaughtering and crushing nations with money and bombs. And you are obviously one of it's many minions. Pro Western propaganda will only work on the most foolish of Muslims.

 

[EgyptPrincess]

"It's that principle of freedom, tolerance, and equal rights for all that's led the west to try and co-operate with all nations on earth and seek a global peace." Are you kidding? The West is about control and oppression under the Zionist boot. If a nation does not cow tow to the West it is attacked with propaganda, meddled with by paid agitators to destabilize the government and if that doesn't work bombed to destruction. The West is the Beast at this point of time, playing the Angel while slaughtering and crushing nations with money and bombs. And you are obviously one of it's many minions. Pro Western propaganda will only work on the most foolish of Muslims.

It's not that bad bro.

 

[Karl]

I have strayed off topic so to put things right all I can say to Muslim females and males too is only be guided by the Holy Quran and Hadiths and all that is Islam. Don't be guided by the infidels, no matter how sweet their ideas may appear to you. They are always working to tear you from the righteous path with their mind control games. That is why the Prophet said not to live amongst the kuffar. Because the Muslims of weak will would be turned to kuffar.

 

[Marina-Aisha]

i have say im one those women my mum didnt teach me any those things and i wish she had cos it was hard learning on my own at first did cause alot agruments with my husband as im very messy person he like clean freak haha but ive got better my cooking is good nw my housework still needs improving but i would never ask my mum do it for me or hire maid learn how to do it urself...hw ur children gonna learn if u dont learn??!