An eye for an eye, as Somali boy executes father's killer

[nimrod]

Rani, an interesting question would be, when exactly does a citizen acting on behalf of the state, become an independent agent?
Was it the “state agent” or a “private citizen” that put the man to death?

Are all state sanctioned death penalties acts of revenge?
Should all close family members be automatically excluded from the role of executioner?

While I am no fan of the death penalty, I can see that it provides some amount of “closure” for some people.

Thanks
Nimrod

 

[HeiGou]

Rani, an interesting question would be, when exactly does a citizen acting on behalf of the state, become an independent agent?
Was it the “state agent” or a “private citizen” that put the man to death?

There is also a larger issue of law here - Islamic law is sort of half way between private law (where murder is a tort and the state is not involved) and public law (where murder is a crime and the individual is not involved). So it allows for murder to be treated as a tort and recompense is paid in money, if that is what the relatives want, but it also allows it to be treated as a crime, and so is punished with murder if the relatives reject the money. The State does not play a big role in any case as it is up to the relatives who, in every case I have heard of, also execute the murderer - so sort of state-supported feud. In Islam, as far as I can see, the whole notion of a state is extremely weak anyway.

 

[Wahid]

Justice is blind.

But then, how are you supposed to do all this killing if you can't even see? kay:

justice is blind?? this is in the Quran read the last post....

and if ur not a criminal u wont go blind

 

[nimrod]

HeiGou “There is also a larger issue of law here - Islamic law is sort of half way between private law (where murder is a tort and the state is not involved) and public law (where murder is a crime and the individual is not involved)”, that sort of thing does allow for a lot of personal values to come into play while deciding what the proper punishment should be.

Are the victims to be less valued, or valued more, depending on if they are the only son verses one of many daughters? Is the murdered “not well liked” victim to be less avenged than that of the “well liked” victim?

Is murder “less” wrong, depending on the victim and therefore a lesser punishment can be meted out? (In at least one respect I see the same logic being applied to law here in the USA with all the “Hate crime” laws. Plain murder is murder. The reasons for it are, in most cases, un-important as to the resulting punishment.)

There is much about how Islam views murder and punishment that I don’t understand.

Should a wealthy man be held any less accountable than a poor man for committing the exact same crime? One pays out of his excess’ and the other pays with his life?

That is just one of the many problems I see when folks start talking about implementing Islamic law as a good thing.

Murdering a man for insulting Muhammad is no less offensive than murdering a man for being black.

“In Islam, as far as I can see, the whole notion of a state is extremely weak anyway”.

I agree, for me it presents a rather confusing set of circumstances at times in my views of Islam. (As an aside, I also find Islam’s view on rhetoric to be rather confusing. The fellow in Iran is an example of what I am referring to.)

Thanks
Nimrod

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Hello HeiGou,

The State does not play a big role in any case as it is up to the relatives who, in every case I have heard of, also execute the murderer - so sort of state-supported feud.

No this is not the case in Islamic law. There is a specific person designated an executioner, it is not tribal revenge organized by the state. When somneone is killed, there is to be no vigilante justice, the crime must be reported to the Islamic state and they are to take care of it by performing the proper investigation and having the penalty implemented by a state authority.
http://www.islamtoday.com/show_detail_section.cfm?q_id=152&main_cat_id=6

In Islam, as far as I can see, the whole notion of a state is extremely weak anyway.

And why is that?

Hello Nimrod,

Are the victims to be less valued, or valued more, depending on if they are the only son verses one of many daughters? Is the murdered “not well liked” victim to be less avenged than that of the “well liked” victim?

No.

Is murder “less” wrong, depending on the victim and therefore a lesser punishment can be meted out?

No.

There is much about how Islam views murder and punishment that I don’t understand.

Feel free to ask.

Should a wealthy man be held any less accountable than a poor man for committing the exact same crime? One pays out of his excess’ and the other pays with his life?

The family can accept bloodmoney from a poor person too, he just might not be able to pay it instantly.

Murdering a man for insulting Muhammad is no less offensive than murdering a man for being black.

First, when is someone murdered for insulting Muhammad? And second, a person attacking the faith of others/promoting hatred is not the same as someone being born of an ethnicity.

Regards

 

[twelver]

Another reason why Shariah is to be opposed. This is pretty sick.

 

[Zulkiflim]

Salaam,

Allah laws are clear,an eye for an eye, and so on..

If a person is killed that his death is upon the hand of the family that has lost their loved ones.

read the Quranin verses,they are allowed retaliation but IT IS BETTER FOR THEM TO FORGIVE..

A test,a test for the offender not to commit his crime and a test for the family not to follow in crime,bu assuredly if they did then it is their right..

A murder for a murder,but does the sharia laws state that the murder must be the same manner?

Assuredly no,unless anyone else have any other data?

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Hi Twelver

Another reason why Shariah is to be opposed. This is pretty sick.

You should judge Islamic law based on objective study of it, not media reports of how some Muslims have implemented it. Please read my last post.

Regards

 

[Waryaa]

It is disgusting and barbaric. It shames us particularly Somalis how far low the ebb of this barbarism we went down.

No shareeca law accepts this sickness, the way it was committed completely was irrational to say the least.

Some Somali news sites published the pictures. No sane human can stomach it, the repeated stabs, the hooded, handcuffed struggling man for his life, breaking eventually away from weak-structured wood pillar that quickly broke, and teen going after him the hapless man, stabbing once more again and again. Sickness.

May Allah help our ignorant people. Aamiin.

 

[Ghazi]

Another reason why Shariah is to be opposed. This is pretty sick.

Salaam

I doubt you'd take that tone if you were that boy, seriously put your self in his position and please in future don't insult my religion.

 

[786rani]

my grandfather was killed by some rishkaw driver. my father let him go because it's allah's will to call some one to him and the person is just an excuse.
rani

 

[Zzims]

there are others ways to meet this kind of problem.. Killing him as blood for blood repayment is one option.. but Imprisonment or Diat could be use.. a man must pay for hes misdeeds.. if anyone who is familiar with Syariah laws knows.. forgiveness is always the better option then revenge.. but if hes alredy a convicted robber.. they shouldve have given him the the usual punishment for robbers.... long before he murdered the boy's father.. as stated in Surah Al-Maidah ayat 33..-38 if they pushed for shariah laws then.. things would have been different..

 

[Zzims]

my grandfather was killed by some rishkaw driver. my father let him go because it's allah's will to call some one to him and the person is just an excuse.
rani

what rani says i true.. its all a test from God.. Death comes in many forms and ways.. we just have to dealt with it and move on .. may god bless your grandfather's soul Rani.. Ameen