Status of women in western society...

[happymuslim]

I am agree with you on this..And I also agree with the idea that "the symbol of woman" is used as a tool of commerce in many western and other colonised societies. However, I would like to ask that whether you are questioning the status of women in the Muslim societies? Women are regarded in many Muslim societies as second class citizents. They are not given the same rights as men have. What do you think about this?

Both sides to this are men controlling the liberation of women, we shouldn't be sex symbols, nor trapped, but men can't see that

 

[Search]

:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

(Peace be upon you)

Both sides to this are men controlling the liberation of women, we shouldn't be sex symbols, nor trapped, but men can't see that

Bingo - exactly right.

:wa: (And peace be upon you)

 

[azc]

[MENTION=31950]Scimitar[/MENTION] :

Umar RA, when he was khaliph, appointed a woman to be in charge of the Market/Bazaar.Daleel?Learn your Muslim history, it's all there bro.

According to Hamza Yusuf ''during the caliphate of Hazrat Umar :ra: slave women went around bare-breasted in public and he said it was a historical fact''........... In "Kitab al-Jami'" of al-Imam Ibn Abi Zayd al-Qayrawani al-Maliki (died 386 AH) said: "He (i.e. al-Imam Malik ibn Anas) strongly disapproved of the behaviour of the slave women of al-Madinah in going out uncovered above the lower garment. He said: "I have spoken to the sultan about it, but I have not received a reply." He said: "Beat slave women if they do that."".... Can it also be applied now..?

 

[azc]

you got the nerve to speak to me about common sense?

May Allah swt protect me from ego.

Women are allowed to trade in Islam

is it subjected to conditions or not? https://islamqa.info/en/106815

 

[Scimitar]

You do not know about contexts. Clearly. This proves it.

@Scimitar : According to Hamza Yusuf ''during the caliphate of Hazrat Umar :ra: slave women went around bare-breasted in public and he said it was a historical fact''........... In "Kitab al-Jami'" of al-Imam Ibn Abi Zayd al-Qayrawani al-Maliki (died 386 AH) said: "He (i.e. al-Imam Malik ibn Anas) strongly disapproved of the behaviour of the slave women of al-Madinah in going out uncovered above the lower garment. He said: "I have spoken to the sultan about it, but I have not received a reply." He said: "Beat slave women if they do that."".... Can it also be applied now..?

I think you are a few pennies short of a pound. First of all, the women who were naked from the waist up were Yathribi (medinites) who were native to Yathrib (medina) and not from the migrants of makkah.

Secondly, this was a situation where a norm in that society (medinite/yahtribi) was infringing on the laws of modesty within Islam.

Third, this was clearly a situation that was resolved as there are no women who walk around in Arabia half naked in public.

Fourth - this is not a situation where the haraam became halal or vice versa - it was haraam for women to be half naked so it was stopped - IT WAS NOT HARAAM FOR A WOMAN TO TRADE IN THE MARKET PLACE.

You need to work a LOT harder to make a point... for the record, you do not have a point.


And... I'm still waiting for you to answer me in that other thread where you made the erroneous claim that Shaytaan taught the Angels.

Scimi

 

[azc]

[MENTION=31950]Scimitar[/MENTION] :

And... I'm still waiting for you to answer me in that other thread where you made the erroneous claim that Shaytaan taught the Angels

Out of at least 8 tafasir and some other books I found this stuff related to your Q as herein: Firoz ul lughat ( most authentic Urdu dictionary.. Shaytan:''muallimul malaika''...In Tafsir Durre Mansur -- imam ibn jarir ra and imam saeed b musayyib ra (both were students of Hz Abu Huraira :RA: said,'' Iblis was the leader of angles of sky of the world''. Hz Ibn Abbas :RA: said, '' Iblis was respectable among angels, moreover, he was the king of the sky of the world (obviously he was the king of all angels belonged to the sky of the world) and he had kingship of the earth.'' -- In Tafsir ibn kathir: ibn abbas :RA: said,'' shaytan belonged to one of the clan of angels, called jinn that was made of fire. His name was haris and he was the treasurer of the heaven.'' further said,''He was the commander in chief of the army of the angels, sent to kill the jinn of earth who were involved in killing (each other).... (in tafsir of surah al baqrah ayat #34)... I'm still on the job

 

[azc]

You do not know about contexts. Clearly. This proves it.I think you are a few pennies short of a pound. First of all, the women who were naked from the waist up were Yathribi (medinites) who were native to Yathrib (medina) and not from the migrants of makkah.Secondly, this was a situation where a norm in that society (medinite/yahtribi) was infringing on the laws of modesty within Islam.Third, this was clearly a situation that was resolved as there are no women who walk around in Arabia half naked in public.Fourth - this is not a situation where the haraam became halal or vice versa - it was haraam for women to be half naked so it was stopped - IT WAS NOT HARAAM FOR A WOMAN TO TRADE IN THE MARKET PLACE.You need to work a LOT harder to make a point... for the record, you do not have a point. And... I'm still waiting for you to answer me in that other thread where you made the erroneous claim that Shaytaan taught the Angels.Scimi

no, brother. You failed to reply my post. Sorry ! Control yourself and instead of hitting me, be calm and think for moment what you are doing. See my Q again: Can this incident be taken as dalil...? If not then why you are taking the dalil from rare incident of woman supervisor...? ...Thanks and regards my brother in Islam

 

[azc]

[MENTION=31950]Scimitar[/MENTION] : where is the reply of post #44...? Don't forget to see the link... Your comments are eagerly awaited my brother. Peace!

 

[anatolian]

The most dangerous people on the earth are the oppressed ones, who are accepting the oppression..

 

[Scimitar]

@Scimitar : Out of at least 8 tafasir and some other books I found this stuff related to your Q as herein: Firoz ul lughat ( most authentic Urdu dictionary.. Shaytan:''muallimul malaika''...In Tafsir Durre Mansur -- imam ibn jarir ra and imam saeed b musayyib ra (both were students of Hz Abu Huraira :RA: said,'' Iblis was the leader of angles of sky of the world''. Hz Ibn Abbas :RA: said, '' Iblis was respectable among angels, moreover, he was the king of the sky of the world (obviously he was the king of all angels belonged to the sky of the world) and he had kingship of the earth.'' -- In Tafsir ibn kathir: ibn abbas :RA: said,'' shaytan belonged to one of the clan of angels, called jinn that was made of fire. His name was haris and he was the treasurer of the heaven.'' further said,''He was the commander in chief of the army of the angels, sent to kill the jinn of earth who were involved in killing (each other).... (in tafsir of surah al baqrah ayat #34)... I'm still on the job

who did Abu Hurairah hear it from? lol it doesn't go back to the prophet pbuh.

Bro, many books have attributed hadeeth to Abu Hurairah which are not exactly sound.

you really should do your homework instead of rant off on stuff you've read without checking it for problematic issues like this one.

Scimi

 

[azc]

[MENTION=31950]Scimitar[/MENTION]: Once again you failed to prove your point of view. Next time try hard.

who did Abu Hurairah hear it from? lol it doesn't go back to the prophet pbuh.

Are you absent-minded or have comprehension problem.? Where did I attribute the mentioned statement to him? Bro,Open your eyes and read again and take care further. Moreover, it shows that you are lacking in knowledge of science of hadith and tafsir.We've several types of ahadith from different aspects such as: Hadith (1) Hadith Marfu3, (2) Hadith Mowquf, (3) Hadith Muqtu3. And tafsir of surah al baqrah, ayat #34 in tafsir Durre Mansur of Allama Jalauddin Siyuti ra and Tasir Ibn Kathir of Iman Ibn Kathir ra is corroborated by Hadith Mowquf and Hadith Maqtu3 as it's generally found in books of tafsir, you are unaware thereof.

Bro, many books have attributed hadeeth to Abu Hurairah which are not exactly sound

It shows your ignorance of ilm ar rijal.

you really should do your homework instead of rant off on stuff you've read without checking it for problematic issues like this one.

It shows that you follow your whims. You want to change Islam in accordance of your whims. You quoted the incident of a woman market in-charge. Do you know the source..? Perhaps yo don't have accessibility to the book. This is why you didn't mention the name of the book O.k. I tell the name of the book. It is Al Isaba of hafiz Ibn Hajar ra.I'm sure you don't know that the riwayat has no chain of narrators at all. Brother,sit with good scholars instead of trusting Mr Google only. Peace !!!

 

[azc]

[MENTION=31950]Scimitar[/MENTION] : Brother, why you are running away from accepting the fatwa of islamqa mentioned in post #44.

 

[Born_Believer]

Speaking to and living/studying/working alongside western women I have to say and it saddens my heart to say this but western women are the most deprived, oppressed, depressed and ignorant people in all society. Now this is NOT ALL western women but the vast majority. They believe it is oppressive to cover their legs and arms and hair and to be known for their intellect and strength of character yet they feel that walking around 75% naked is "liberation". What's most remarkable is the majority of these fashion designers and advertising/marketing executives, who tell women how to dress, how to do their hair, how to do their make up and how to behave are...yes you guess it folks, men!

I have never come across a more oppressed people than western women. As Steve Biko once said,"The most potent weapon in the hand of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed." That perfectly encapsulates the plight of the majority of western women.

However, in the UK at least, 2/3 of all converts to Islam are women so there seems to be an awakening, even if it is limited. More and more women are starting to see that they are more than the sum of their body parts. This terrifies the western power structure because one day, Inshallah, the largest vote bank in history will wake up and realise they can change society for the better.

 

[Scimitar]

@Scimitar: Once again you failed to prove your point of view. Next time try hard.Are you absent-minded or have comprehension problem.? Where did I attribute the mentioned statement to him?

That's what goes over your head.

That the hadeeth is not attributed to Muhammad pbuh and thus, not worth the paper its printed on.

Shame on you. You're a salafi aren't you?

Scimi

 

[azc]

That's what goes over your head.That the hadeeth is not attributed to Muhammad pbuh and thus, not worth the paper its printed on.Shame on you. You're a salafi aren't you?Scimi

You are again proven wrong.Do you reject hadith mowquf and hadith maqtu3..? Then you are a hadith rejector. Not only this but also you are rejecting the authenticity of famous tafasir. Shame on you !

 

[Scimitar]

You are again proven wrong.Do you reject hadith mowquf and hadith maqtu3..? Then you are a hadith rejector. Not only this you are rejecting the authenticity of famous tafasir. Shame on you !

I do not place much importance of what is not attirbuted to the Prophet pbuh.

Why do you?

Are you like a saint hunter?

All men are fallible... you will follow their word over the word of the prophet pbuh.

I prefer to learn history from the many avenues of approach which help to flesh in the anthropology of the period in question, tafsir included, but not limited to just tafsir.... I highly doubt you know what I just wrote to mean.... something tells me you are kinda ignorant in that sense.

See bro. No matter how you try to cut it - that hadeeth is not worth the paper its printed on because it is not attributed to the Prophet pbuh....


...Next, I'm expecting you to cite some Israeli hadeeth to cement your bias.

Scimi

 

[Scimitar]

May Allah swt protect me from ego. is it subjected to conditions or not? https://islamqa.info/en/106815

Are you dense?

I posted this before you did, with a clear explanation of context.

Which you ignored.

With relation to Muslim women rights to work:

It is permissible for a woman to go out of her house for work, but that is subject to certain conditions. If they are met, it is permissible for her to go out. They are:

- That she needs to work in order to acquire the money she needs.

- The work should be suited to the nature of woman, such as medicine, nursing, teaching, sewing, and so on. (personally I (Scimi) believe they make great engineers too, if Maryam al Astrolabiyah is to be cited as an example. In fact, I think these jobs such as sewing suit men as well - did the Prophet pbuh not repair his own garments?)

- The work should be in a place that is only for women, and there should be no mixing with non-mahram men.

- Whilst at work she should observe complete shar’i hijab.- Her work should not lead to her travelling without a mahram.

- Her going out to work should not involve committing any haraam action, such as being alone with the driver, or wearing perfume where non-mahrams can smell it.

- That should not lead to her neglecting things that are more essential for her, such as looking after her house, husband and children.

IslamQA - most likely the very same you tried to reference.

In the IslamQA site - I found this:

[FONT=wf_segoe-ui_light]Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen said: The field in which a woman works should be only for women, such as if she works in teaching girls, whether in administration or technical support, or she works at home as a seamstress sewing clothes for women and so on. As for working in fields that are for men, this is not permissible for her because it requires her to mix with men, which is a great fitnah (source of temptation and trouble) and should be avoided. It should be noted that it is proven that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I have not left behind me any fitnah that is more harmful to men than women; the fitnah of the Children of Israel had to do with women.” So the man should keep his family away from places of fitnah and its causes in all circumstances. End quote. [/FONT]Fataawa al-Mar’ah al-Muslimah (2/981)

What I find interesting is how he ignored the fact that in Medina, women were trading publicly in the market places and no one batted an eyelid.

Not to mention how women would also accompany men to the battles in order to be nurses - to ghair mahram.

Sometimes, the scholars lose sight of history and talk from a position of haughtiness. They are not infallible.

For the record, a Muslim woman serving a non mahram man at a cafe, his cappucino, is not "free mixing" - but rather, "serving a customer".

Scimi

You must have ignored the majority of what I wrote in your willful ignorance.

Sheesh.

Grow up, and stop being such a nincompoop.

Scimi

 

[azc]

I do not place much importance of what is not attirbuted to the Prophet pbuh.Why do you? Are you like a saint hunter?All men are fallible... you will follow their word over the word of the prophet pbuh.I prefer to learn history from the many avenues of approach which help to flesh in the anthropology of the period in question, tafsir included, but not limited to just tafsir.... I highly doubt you know what I just wrote to mean.... something tells me you are kinda ignorant in that sense.See bro. No matter how you try to cut it - that hadeeth is not worth the paper its printed on because it is not attributed to the Prophet pbuh.......Next, I'm expecting you to cite some Israeli hadeeth to cement your bias.Scimi

What a stupid logic ! When I quote a narration which doesn't go back to prophet s.a.w you reject it but on other side you quote a similar narration (of woman market in charge) which also doesn't go to back prophet s.a.w then it's acceptable to you. Is it not self contradictory..?

 

[azc]

Are you dense?I posted this before you did, with a clear explanation of context.Which you ignored.You must have ignored the majority of what I wrote in your willful ignorance.Sheesh.Grow up, and stop being such a nincompoop.Scimi

read it carefully: woman can do work but it's subjected to certain conditions. My discussion with brother ardianto was on this issue whether or not a girl can do the job of waitress... I said no as she has to serve non mahram. I know that brother ardianto being a good Muslim didn't gaze at her but what about other customers..? And she can't be allowed to wear niqab or hijab on duty... and you without understanding the issue jumped upon conclusion. What you or I think has no importance, important is what Islam says. A Muslim girl can do other jobs which doesn't offer interaction with non matram provided that conditions permit her to do the job

 

[Jk123]

Have the women, in the name of freedom, become a toy to play with for the men in western society...?

It seems that way. Women are portrayed negatively in western media