Need help refuting malicious accusations against Islam?

[TDWT]

I figured this thread would be a better place to put this, I read this commentary that ibn hajar said and he stated this:

ذُرِّيَّتِكَ، فَقَالَ السَّلاَمُ عَلَيْكُمْ، فَقَالُوا: السَّلاَمُ عَلَيْكَ وَرَحْمَةُ اللَّهِ --، فَزَادُوهُ: وَرَحْمَةُ اللَّهِ، فَكُلُّ مَنْ يَدْخُلُ الجَنَّةَ عَلَى صُورَةِ آدَمَ، فَلَمْ يَزَلِ الخَلْقُ يَنْقُصُ حَتَّى الآنَ ")) قال ابن حجر في الفتح (قَوْلُهُ فَكُلُّ مَنْ يَدْخُلُ الْجَنَّةَ عَلَى صُورَةِ آدَمَ أَيْ عَلَى صِفَتِهِ وَهَذَا يَدُلُّ عَلَى أَنَّ صِفَاتِ النَّقْصِ مِنْ سَوَادٍ وَغَيْرِهِ تَنْتَفِي عِنْدَ دُخُولِ الْجَنَّةِ وَقَدْ تَقَدَّمَ بَيَانُ ذَلِكَ فِي بَابِ صِفَةِ الْجَنَّةِ))

I was wondering, can you clarify what he meant by blackness? This site was using this to try and say islam was racist, so can you explain this further?

@Huzaifah ibn Adam

 

[TDWT]

@Huzaifah ibn Adam, can you clarify?

 

[TDWT]

Bump

 

[greenhill]

What does it say? is there a translation of the quote?


eace:

 

[Scimitar]

it's not about racism.

The blackness is like a shadow, or darkness which surrounds the unbeliever. Whereas the believer reflects light - known in Arabic as "noor".

Scimi

 

[TDWT]

it's not about racism.

The blackness is like a shadow, or darkness which surrounds the unbeliever. Whereas the believer reflects light - known in Arabic as "noor".

Scimi

But the people of paradise are still going to be white skinned based on this right?(Not that I have an issue with it, just asking):

حدثنا يزيد، أخبرنا حماد بن سلمة، عن علي بن زيد، عن سعيد بن المسيب، عن أبي هريرة، عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم، قال: " يدخل أهل الجنة الجنة جردا، مردا، بيضا، جعادا، مكحلين، أبناء ثلاث وثلاثين، على خلق آدم، ستون ذراعا في عرض سبع أذرع

 

[Scimitar]

Ibn Hajar RA went to heaven? met the people? came back to tell us? well that's news to me.

Scimi

 

[TDWT]

no thats a hadith

 

[Scimitar]

Bro. in Islam there is no such thing as racism.

The question you ask "is there only white people in jannah" is irrelevant - and shows that you are playing to the racist narrative of those who ask such silly questions.

I would answer them simply - "there is no racism in Islam" and "white is not better than black and black is not better than white" and "he whose deeds are good is better than he whose deeds are not".

As for the whiteness mentioned in the text you posted - bro - think for a moment about the following:

A lot of what is described regarding the end times of this earth is allegorical - take for example the hadeeth of dajjal travelling on a white donkey whose ears are 40 cubits wide - this is an airplane - a load baring machine, likened to a donkey - a load baring animal.

Now - in case you didn't notice - the hadeeth is allegorical and not literal - and described something on this earth - not heaven. Did the people of the past believe Dajjal will travel on an actual white donkey? Who knows, possibly right? But we in this age have seen airplanes with wide wings, and they are always made to be painted white and then skinned after. We reognise this donkey from hadeeth as an airplane.

It is allegorical.

Now - the hadeeth about jannah - bro, have to be allegorical because no man can describe something "otherworldly" with their limited human senses. We are informed that in the next life - our bodies will be made new in a form unknown to us - WHY?

Why indeed.

Racism? Not even an issue.

I hope this contextualizes the question your non Muslims friends have issues with.

It is not an issue in Islam because it's not even relevant.

Scimi

 

[talibilm]

But the people of paradise are still going to be white skinned based on this right?(Not that I have an issue with it, just asking):

حدثنا يزيد، أخبرنا حماد بن سلمة، عن علي بن زيد، عن سعيد بن المسيب، عن أبي هريرة، عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم، قال: " يدخل أهل الجنة الجنة جردا، مردا، بيضا، جعادا، مكحلين، أبناء ثلاث وثلاثين، على خلق آدم، ستون ذراعا في عرض سبع أذرع

I have not seen any reference in hadith about the colour of skin of the jannatis . But its repeated they will recognize each other and If a black man is white there ?

But its said some Prophets were black or towards black . But Black is also beautiful and its upto Allah the maker what ever he intends to make beautiful the colours becomes unimportant. some black birds with a little while are so cute Some whites are ugly to look.

So Only colour does not decide the beauty of anything or anyone


P.s @TDWT

Do not expect everyone here to know Arabic so quote a translation of any thing in Arabic

 

[Scimitar]

I have not seen any reference in hadith about the colour of skin of the jannatis . But its repeated they will recognize each other and If a black man is white there ?

But its said some Prophets were black or towards black . But Black is also beautiful and its upto Allah the maker what ever he intends to make beautiful the colours becomes unimportant. some black birds with a little while are so cute Some whites are ugly to look.

So Only colour does not decide the beauty of anything or anyone


P.s @TDWT

Do not expect everyone here to know Arabic so quote a translation of any thing in Arabic

As a nail in the coffin of this thread premise - the ayah:

In that We will change your likenesses and produce you in that [form] which you do not know. (56/61)

Kinda puts the whole black/white argument in the bin. Where it belongs.

Scimi

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Bro Scimi

take for example the hadeeth of dajjal travelling on a white donkey whose ears are 40 cubits wide - this is an airplane

I would rather believe it is a very big donkey, for Allah all things are not only possible, they are easy. The Prophet Adam, was sixty cubits tall, not a problem. The Prophet Muhammad when he traveled from Makkah to Jerusalem with Buraq a winged horse, also not a problem. If Allah can create the universe and all life, why limit his abilities to the life we see today.

Blessings

Eric

 

[Scimitar]

Buraq relates to lightning - I find that interesting because he embarked upon something which travelled at the speed of light

At that time in history bro Eric, the fastest animal one could board was an horse - hence they likened it to an horse and claimed it had wings when no one saw it except for the prophet pbuh and what he described was allegorical

It is understood to be allegorical

You can believe in a big flying donkey - sure - but hey the only pigs I see flying are the police copters

I wonder how a large donkey will fly if not allegorical

Scimi

 

[TDWT]

I have not seen any reference in hadith about the colour of skin of the jannatis . But its repeated they will recognize each other and If a black man is white there ?

But its said some Prophets were black or towards black . But Black is also beautiful and its upto Allah the maker what ever he intends to make beautiful the colours becomes unimportant. some black birds with a little while are so cute Some whites are ugly to look.

So Only colour does not decide the beauty of anything or anyone


P.s @TDWT

Do not expect everyone here to know Arabic so quote a translation of any thing in Arabic

I was wondering, do you know arabic?

 

[talibilm]

I was wondering, do you know arabic?

I had replied many times I do not know Arabic. But that does not deter anyone to clear such issues like you ask since its just a basic matter , which can be understood from the Allah given conscience and guidance about the Deen al Islam we follow.

So that's why I had reminded you couple of times to quote translation too. Do not think everyone is a scholar & holds mastery over Arabic here.

And some think ITS a must to understand Arabic to understand Islam which IMHO is not , though its the best to have A MASTERY over Arabic for those who want to understand the Noble Quran precisely . But Allah made NOBLE QURAN for all (all nations all languages ) so its not that anyone who does not Arabic cannot follow the right Islam .


And its also not those who know Arabic will understand the perfect Islam because if that was so Sam Shamoun, Anees Sharosh and many enemies of Islam will know Islam better but they do not , Proves, to understand Islam and follow it. we not only need knowledge but its most important to have the guidance of Allah which Allah gives to his righteous slaves and those who STRIVE to his path. Hope that clear your doubt that knowing ARABIC is not the only need to understand Islam . inshallah

 

[talibilm]

@TDWT

Your ref of a hadith through a PM shows that Jannatis will be entering white . Jazakallah khair for that since am noting this first time. But am yet to see from strong leading hadiths about that but still musnad ahmad cannot be denied if the translation was correct of what you had quoted .

This only means there will be something of a standard that all jannatis will be of medium age ( remember it like 33 ) and other qualities mentioned but labelling it as racist is ridiculous since white & black all are equal to Allah and Bilal who has the PRESTIGE of the first muazziin of Islam who was allowed to climb to the top of the sacred kaaba was a Black .

 

[talibilm]

Greetings and peace be with you Bro Scimi

I would rather believe it is a very big donkey, for Allah all things are not only possible, they are easy. The Prophet Adam, was sixty cubits tall, not a problem. The Prophet Muhammad when he traveled from Makkah to Jerusalem with Buraq a winged horse, also not a problem. If Allah can create the universe and all life, why limit his abilities to the life we see today.

Blessings

Eric

Each cubit of Adam could be like 1.5 meters as seen from the foot print of Adam at the Adam's peak in Sri Lanka. Bible mention of Adam walking in the seas ( they are deep) catching fish adds proof to this sixty cubit (about 90 meters) thought.

 

[Scimitar]

Each cubit of Adam could be like 1.5 meters

Assalaam alaikum bro,

A cubit is 1.5 feet, not 1.5 meters.

The cubit measurement is the length from elbow to fingertip. Standardised as 1.5 feet. (18 inches or 45 cm)

Just a correction.

Scimi

 

[talibilm]

Assalaam alaikum bro,

A cubit is 1.5 feet, not 1.5 meters.

The cubit measurement is the length from elbow to fingertip. Standardised as 1.5 feet. (18 inches or 45 cm)

Just a correction.

Scimi

wr wb bro

You are absolutely correct but I mean a Cubit of The Tallest Human Adam .

A foot is smaller than a cubit right ?

If so Adams foot measures about a 1.8 m (5 ft 11 in) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam's_Peak

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam's_Peak


...So cubit of Adam is bigger than what I guessed . No wonder Its said Adam went to Salam to those tall huge Angels once Allah put his ruh was put in his body Allahu aalam

 

[Scimitar]

the cubit measurement is given during the time of Nuh Alaihis salaam - where he was commanded to build the ark according to the specification Allah revealed to him. This is in the Old Testament Torah.

This is the earliest known usage for the measurement of cubit.

Nuh Alaihis salaam was not a giant.

His cubit measurement was approx 1.5 feet. |Same as ours.

After the ark landed and mankind began to spread across the world, the first nation state to be built was Babylon, and they used the same measurement of cubits - 1.5 feet.

Historically - the cubit is 1.5 feet.

We understand the phenomenal height of Adam alaihis salaam from the measurement of a cubit which is 1.5 feet (Adam Alaihis Salaam was 60 cubits in height hadeeth) Making his total height 90 feet.


With regard to your about Adams Peak - bro, that is hearsay.

There are hadeeth about the phenomenal landing of Adam on earth and the stronger narrations allude to him landing in Makkah or Dajnah - no Baudh (Adam's Peak) these later ideas were inserted from the period of ghazwa.

The Adams Peak in Sri Lanka is more commonly known and worshipped as an Hindu gods footprint - and across India - there are many giant footprints belonging to a whole variety of deities. Also brother, the Hindus have been experts at carving idols into rock formations since antiquity - mohenjo daro and other places are proof that they had immense skills - so carving out a footprint wouldn't really be a big deal.

Also, it makes no sense to claim Adams cubit was such and such a length because we do not meausre cubits that way - like I said, since ancient times, the cubit has been 1.5 feet.

Scimi