Finland's Islamophobia and Hate against Islam

[Serinity]

When it comes to human rights, we make no distinction between a kafir or Muslim. AFAIK.

So if a Muslim kills and bombs innocents, we condemn it, if a kafir does it, we do too. The assumption that as Muslims we'd overlook a terrorist because he is Muslim, is presumptuous.

 

[aaj]

turkey is a Muslim country, this is why it's safer for you

exactly!

Unless if you are gulenist. Then Finland is safer.

until they attempt a coup there as well.

I don't know why it's so hard to understand, if you attempt a coup in any country, you will be treated the same.

 

[islamocurious]

Thanks Scimi. Is questioning, or criticising, Islamic scripture and specific actions of the Prophet Mohammad considered islamophobia?..

 

[Scimitar]

Thanks Scimi. Is questioning, or criticising, Islamic scripture and specific actions of the Prophet Mohammad considered islamophobia?..

You're welcome,

no. it's considered critique if done withe the intention of researching with honesty, and critique is not necessarily a bad thing. Many critics of Islam have become Muslim in their latter years.

Islamophobia is simply, xenophobia towards Muslims and Islam. it's irrational. and breeds fear among people who do not know Islam nor had the opportunity to know it. Kinda sad really. Personally, I believe the media has polarized Islam through willful ignorance. And it's not helping.

Scimi

 

[Serinity]

I'd characterise those cartoonists, politicians and etc. who only wants to defame Muslims, and wants to ignite hatred, as Islamophobes.

You see, when the cartoonists do something (like draw Prophet Muhammad saws: that is Islamophobic and unacceptable) or politicians ignite senseless fears.. Or say that all Masjids are a place for extremists, audhu billah. then that is something to condemn.

But today we see how cartoonists are protected by their "freedom of speeech" and then are harsh when Muslims speak against it and label it hate speech.. The double standards.. you see??

I am not saying that Muslims bombing innocents is justified by the one's who mock Islam. But that to blame us Muslims isn't a solution. Because I feel offended when we Muslims as a whole get blamed because of the actions of a few.

There is a lack of understanding on the kuffar's side, and sometimes an irrational response from the Muslims.

Allahu alam.

 

[sister herb]

I don't know why it's so hard to understand, if you attempt a coup in any country, you will be treated the same.

And now you don´t understand; even if some people would attemp a coup in some country, this country still has to respect their human rights, ensure to them legal proceedings and not to persecute all those supporters whose haven´t take part to the actions. Also, prosecutor has to show the real proof they have actually were behind the coup.

In the case of Turkey, the only proof is because Erdogan says so. It´s not enough. Without them, this all is only political vendetta to destroy a political opponent.

And now several human right organizations claim (you don´t have to believe them if the truth hurts), that officers have done also something else, as torture the prisoners. This is called a human right violation.

And one thing, as I mentioned in my earlier post, what causes a scandal in Finland is that prisoners hadn´t their own toilet seats in their cells. Are you sure that every prisoner in the Turkish prisons has own in their cell? If not, should Turkish politicians be concern about this human right violation too?

Now back to Finland as you were so worry about it´s human right violations when created this thread, brother [MENTION=39296]aaj[/MENTION]. Have you found more violations what Finland has done at the last times? I mean plus to those I have found already.

But are you really interesting about human rights in Finland or do you only want to silent me and my endless worrying about human rights?

 

[Mustafa16]

exactly!





until they attempt a coup there as well.

I don't know why it's so hard to understand, if you attempt a coup in any country, you will be treated the same.

how many times do i have to tell you.....THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THE COUP WAS A GULENIST PLOT! the soliders were tortured into giving testimony of being ordered by Gulen, and others were Kemalists who deny ties to Gulen. Even if Gulenists carried out the coup, you fail to understand that in the Turkish military, if you do not obey your commander, they kill you! fethullah gulen and non soldier gulenists strongly condemned the coup, fethullah gulen said, "as a person who has lived through multiple military coups in my lifetime, i condemn all coups" and called for an international investigation. EU, British, German, and American intelligence say Gulen was not behind it, and Turkey has failed to provide proof. GULEN. DID. NOT. CARRY OUT THE COUP!!!!!!!

 

[islamocurious]

If "islamophobia is simply, Xenophobia towards Muslims AND Islam"; is it islamophobia to criticise Islamic scripture and specific prophet Muhammad actions, without criticising Muslims, islamophobia?

 

[anatolian]

If "islamophobia is simply, Xenophobia towards Muslims AND Islam"; is it islamophobia to criticise Islamic scripture and specific prophet Muhammad actions, without criticising Muslims, islamophobia?

No and no. Any observation based on critical thinking cannot be considered a phobia out of definition. A phobia is the illogical fear of something. So if you like to criticise Islam, just do it. But just make sure that you dont go beyond the limits of the critical mind

Actually, in most cases it is just the desire of an attack on Islam out of jealousity or else more than a phobia what people call Islamophobia. People, mostly politicians, use anti-Islamic stance for political gain. This is an intended illogical fear proccess and does not fit into the definition of phobia. Though, there are also people who really fear Islam and Muslims.

 

[islamocurious]

No and no. Any observation based on critical thinking cannot be considered a phobia out of definition. A phobia is the illogical fear of something. So if you like to criticise Islam, just do it. But just make sure that you dont go beyond the limits of the critical mind

Actually, in most cases it is just the desire of an attack on Islam out of jealousity or else more than a phobia what people call Islamophobia. People, mostly politicians, use anti-Islamic stance for political gain. This is an intended illogical fear proccess and does not fit into the definition of phobia. Though, there are also people who really fear Islam and Muslims.

Thank you, anatolian. I separate criticism of ideas from criticism of people; because people have rights and ideas do not. I'm studying the Quran and the life of the prophet Mohammed. I'm focussed on the life of Mohammed, and the Quran, not the Muslims of today.

 

[Scimitar]

If "islamophobia is simply, Xenophobia towards Muslims AND Islam"; is it islamophobia to criticise Islamic scripture and specific prophet Muhammad actions, without criticising Muslims, islamophobia?

I already answered you above, here I quote for you below:

You're welcome,

no. it's considered critique if done withe the intention of researching with honesty, and critique is not necessarily a bad thing. Many critics of Islam have become Muslim in their latter years.

But you also have to understand that critics are also critiqued for their method and honesty, and when a critic falls from grace - there's no getting back up again because their professional integrity would be dishonoured and tainted due to their fall.

So when I mentioned how many critics of Islam did end up becoming Muslim, you can easily see how Islam has eventually won over the ignorance of the critics through their investigation into Islam, because they did so with honesty and the pursuit of truth in mind and heart - not animosity and Dunning Kruger syndromes leading their bias instead.

You with me so far?

Scimi

 

[Futuwwa]

Thank you, anatolian. I separate criticism of ideas from criticism of people; because people have rights and ideas do not. I'm studying the Quran and the life of the prophet Mohammed. I'm focussed on the life of Mohammed, and the Quran, not the Muslims of today.

I don't mind people who don't like Islam on an idea-level. I have several friends who do that, one of them even dares give it to me straight ;D

Islamophobia is, rather, bigotry against Muslims as a group, and that's a different thing. The distinction is relevant, but the circles on the Venn diagram have a lot of overlap. A great many people who criticize the idea also use our adherence to the idea against us, and advocate retaliating against us for it.

 

[anatolian]

Thank you, anatolian. I separate criticism of ideas from criticism of people; because people have rights and ideas do not. I'm studying the Quran and the life of the prophet Mohammed. I'm focussed on the life of Mohammed, and the Quran, not the Muslims of today.

Alright. So, it seems there is no problem with your attitude..

Btw, are you a Christian?

 

[aaj]

And now you don´t understand; even if some people would attemp a coup in some country, this country still has to respect their human rights, ensure to them legal proceedings and not to persecute all those supporters whose haven´t take part to the actions. Also, prosecutor has to show the real proof they have actually were behind the coup.

In the case of Turkey, the only proof is because Erdogan says so. It´s not enough. Without them, this all is only political vendetta to destroy a political opponent.

And now several human right organizations claim (you don´t have to believe them if the truth hurts), that officers have done also something else, as torture the prisoners. This is called a human right violation.

And one thing, as I mentioned in my earlier post, what causes a scandal in Finland is that prisoners hadn´t their own toilet seats in their cells. Are you sure that every prisoner in the Turkish prisons has own in their cell? If not, should Turkish politicians be concern about this human right violation too?

Now back to Finland as you were so worry about it´s human right violations when created this thread, brother @aaj . Have you found more violations what Finland has done at the last times? I mean plus to those I have found already.

But are you really interesting about human rights in Finland or do you only want to silent me and my endless worrying about human rights?

You think your country still have human rights and all that, just like trump's supporters think US is a champion of human rights and is the greatest nation. Trust me, if a terrorist act happens in your county and the caught culprit was isis member and you had several people living n Finland that were isis supporter then they would be rounded up and taken. Deny it if you will or if the truth hurts, but that's how it will be in any government.

No body here lives in turkey, and everyone is going by the so called reports of the west that itself engages in far worst human rights violations or the traitors who will say lies to make a mountain out of a mole because they failed.

Why don't all you "worried" people actually go talk to the turkish people living in turkey right now and see what they say. I don't mean the bear worshiping kuffars there.

believe it or not, torture happens in all nations, even your "perfect" finland. Just because it hasn't come to light doesn't mean it is nonexistent.

I"m not really interested in finding such violations in finland, i would think you would try to do that more harder than focusing your energy on just turkey based on some so called reports.

I don't want to silence you, if there are such violations happening in turkey then they will come to light one day from inside turkey and not the west and it's propaganda apparatus engaged in invading all Muslim lands. And even if they were happening, it doesn't necessarily means that erdogan is aware of it or personally approving it like obama with his drones.

So, no, i don't want to silence you but i am annoyed by this constant attacking turkey and erdogan with no real proofs, thread after thread.

 

[sister herb]

Turkey isn´t my only area I make noise. In this forum just happens to be members whose lately have taken it to discussion. In other forums or other places I attack against other dictators and against those whose violate the human rights.

In other thread I have already posted information that many human right organizations report about human right violations in Turkey, so you can´t claim I haven´t any proof. Believe me, human right activists don´t collect information about kind of violations for fun. There happens always something wrong when they write their reports.

Could you now, because of your claim, show some proof that here is torture in Finland? The proof isn´t that "it is everywhere".

 

[anatolian]

I am a Turkish person living in Turkey. Ofcourse I dont represent all since there are 80 millions of us..However, what people say has some truth. Erodğan and his political movement started as fresh moderate Islamic movement but they have rapidly got corrupted within the years..They act condtrary to basic Islamic teachings most of time. They don't respect peoples' rights which is most sacred right in Islam after declaring Shahada as you know..

I too think that the coup attempt was a job of CIA, and Gulenist spies in the state (Maybe Fethullah Gülen himself was unaware, I dont know) but an approximate 4 million gulen jamaat members are estimateed in Turkey and a vast majority of these people had no idea of what was going on on that night. However, our respected president and his party did not fear of condemning all these people of the attempt and being members of a terrorist organization and persecuted them. They imprisoned them and captured their properties. They even persecuted Kemalists and leftists which they dont like labeling them as gulenists...A great "parody" is going on now in Turkey.

Why are they doing this? Because although they were so close until a few years ago, they got seperated and some gulenist public prosecuters revealed all the bribery of ERdoğan and AKP members. And they got mad of that..

 

[Scimitar]

There aint a leader alive i can respect today.

From either end of the spectrum, secular and belief. Not One Leader. Just dictators, tyrants, and fall men.

Scimi