Salah

[ZeeshanParvez]

Fuqha are more reliable than muhaddidsin.


Here is whhat hanafi scholar says
http://seekershub.org/ans-blog/2016/11/16/permissible-perform-funeral-prayer-janaza-within-mosque/

Wrong.

The Hadith they use

Further, the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and give him peace) said, “Whoever performs a funeral prayer (janaza) in the mosque has no reward.” [Abu Dawud]

The Arabic of which you could not read when I posted it above is regarding which al-Nawawi said:

All the Huffaaz agree it is weak.

Ahmad bin Hanbal was both a faqiih and a muhaddith.

He said it is weak.

al-Shaafi'i was both a faqiih and a muhaddith.

He said it is weak.


Your fuqahaa used a weak hadith.

 

[azc]

Wrong.

The Hadith they use

Further, the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and give him peace) said, “Whoever performs a funeral prayer (janaza) in the mosque has no reward.” [Abu Dawud]

The Arabic of which you could not read when I posted it above is regarding which al-Nawawi said:

All the Huffaaz agree it is weak.

Ahmad bin Hanbal was both a faqiih and a muhaddith.

He said it is weak.

al-Shaafi'i was both a faqiih and a muhaddith.

He said it is weak.


Your fuqahaa used a weak hadith.

You don't want to change this "your fuqha /imam" mentality..

So....
I reply in your language (it's not my personal views though)

All fuqha are children of imam Abu hanifa rh.
Imam shafi'i rh and imam Ahmad b hambal rh are students of his students.

 

[Linkdeutscher]

It's the position of 4 madhab. Only a few scholars of our time went against the consensus of ummah.

Your stand is wrong.

Give only ONE hadith which proves that there is no difference in salah between men and women.

"Pray as you see me pray" is specific for men. See the hadith.

No it's not. I am talking about the view of the Hanafis on the salah of a woman. It's not the view of the '4 madhhab'.

There is no consensus on how Hanafi women pray. Prove it if you can.

And where did I say there is no difference between the salah of a man and woman? Slow down, read properly, try to understand what was said, then reply.

 

[Linkdeutscher]

You seem to be a Pakistani alhehadith.

Ah yes, I have heard the same being said regarding Imam Bukhari, that he has the same mentality as Pakistani Ahle Hadees.

Nice.

 

[Linkdeutscher]

He simply asked you "Are you a mujtahid"?

He didn't ask me anything.

As I said, read properly then reply. You are embarrassing yourself here my friend.

 

[Linkdeutscher]

oh no i mistakenly liked your post as Imam Abu Hanifa was a hadith expert too; see the prerequisites of a mujtahid; hadith mastery and expertise is one of them:

As for the conditions of the absolute and independent ijtihad, they are mentioned in the Maraqi as-sa’ud in the following line and what follows:
“And that [word ‘faqih’2] is synonymous with the [word] ‘mujtahid’ coupled with those things which bear upon [him] the burden of responsibility,
Such as his being of extreme intelligence by nature, and there is some debate about one who is known to reject juristic analogy [qiyas]
He knows the [juristic] responsibilities through intellectual proofs unless a clear transmitted proof indicates otherwise.
[Sidi Abdullah] says [in his commentary] Nashru al-bunud,
“This means that among the conditions of ijtihad is that [the mujtahid] knows that he must adhere to the intellectual proof which is the foundational condition [al-bara’atu al-asliyya3] until a transmitted proof from a sacred law indicates otherwise.”
He then goes on to mention the other conditions of a mujtahid:
[The sciences of] grammar, prosody, philology, combined with those of usul and rhetoric he must master.
According to the people of precision, [he must know] where the judgements can be found without the condition of having memorized the actual texts.
[All of the above must be known] according to a middle ranked mastery at least. He must also know those matters upon which there is consensus.
[Moreover, he must know] things such as the condition of single hadiths and what carries the authority of great numbers of transmissions; also [knowledge of] what is sound and what is weak is necessary.
Furthermore, what has been abrogated and what abrogates, as well as the conditions under which a verse was revealed or a hadith was transmitted is a condition that must be met.
The states of the narrators and the companions [must also be known]. Therefore, you may follow anyone who fulfils these conditions mentioned above according to the soundest opinion.

http://shaykhhamza.com/transcript/Fatwa-on-Following-a-Madhab

I am sorry to break it to you, but he has been declared weak in hadeeth by the majority of muhadditheen. If you so want we can discuss this and I can prove what I have said.

 

[Linkdeutscher]

You don't want to change this "your fuqha /imam" mentality..

So....
I reply in your language (it's not my personal views though)

All fuqha are children of imam Abu hanifa rh.
Imam shafi'i rh and imam Ahmad b hambal rh are students of his students.

No. This is a typical strawman argument you use, he is not playing your scholars vs my scholars.

I don't think you realize that the consensus of muhadditheen is a form of hujjah, do you?

The claim that all fuqaha are his children is your personal opinion. It is not revelation.

Imam Shafi'ee refuted his students. Please provide evidence that he was their student.

Imam Ahmad said something which you will never be able to hear.

So please. Argue with evidences if you can.

 

[Linkdeutscher]

You sound as salafi. Salafis are also involved in taqllid shakhsi in form of following a specific set of scholars I.e. salafi scholars only.

DeobandI and barelvi follow their own scholars.

Denying taqllid shakhsi proves you a follower of your own scholars.

I follow 4 imams. I don't follow this age scholars if they go on different path in contrast to 4 imams

I may sound like a load of things. Sounding something is not explicit evidence for anything. Anyway, if you are truthful tell me this 'set' of scholars whom I only follow. Then we can talk.

Yes they do, why are you telling me this?

I follow many scholars, but don't follow a single one blindly. I have to say almost every scholar I have taken from, I have disagreed with certain things.

You, my friend, do not follow the four imaams.

You know what? Let's make this simple. Just prove the Hanafi method of women's prayer from Imam Abu Haneefah. That is all. Don't even use any ahadeeth or verses of the Qur'aan or even the sayings of the three other famous Imaams.

Just from Imam Abu Haneefah.

Think you can do it? If you do it I will accept that you follow the four famous imams.

 

[ZeeshanParvez]

You don't want to change this "your fuqha /imam" mentality..

So....
I reply in your language (it's not my personal views though)

All fuqha are children of imam Abu hanifa rh.
Imam shafi'i rh and imam Ahmad b hambal rh are students of his students.

Now I further highlight your ignorance. No one is a child of Abu Hanifah in fiqh. Let me guide you to the fabricated quote you used.

“Hadith or Ahlul Hadith” p 39 quoting from “Tarikh Baghdad” v 13 p 346:


“Ash-Shafi’i said: “Attach yourself to Abu Hanifah and his students, because people are dependant in Fiqh to Abu Hanifah”


Answer: the narration contains the liar Ahmad Al-Hamani.


Also quoting from “Manaqib Abu Hanifah” of Al-Kurdari p 99 that Ash-Shafi’i said that he did not see anyone more Faqih than Abu Hanifah.


Answer: This narration also comes from “Tarikh Baghdad” of Al-Khateeb v 13 p 346, and one of its narrators, Zakariya ibn Abdur Rahman is Majhul.

 

[Linkdeutscher]

Now I further highlight your ignorance. No one is a child of Abu Hanifah in fiqh. Let me guide you to the fabricated quote you used.

“Hadith or Ahlul Hadith” p 39 quoting from “Tarikh Baghdad” v 13 p 346:


“Ash-Shafi’i said: “Attach yourself to Abu Hanifah and his students, because people are dependant in Fiqh to Abu Hanifah”


Answer: the narration contains the liar Ahmad Al-Hamani.


Also quoting from “Manaqib Abu Hanifah” of Al-Kurdari p 99 that Ash-Shafi’i said that he did not see anyone more Faqih than Abu Hanifah.


Answer: This narration also comes from “Tarikh Baghdad” of Al-Khateeb v 13 p 346, and one of its narrators, Zakariya ibn Abdur Rahman is Majhul.

Ah yes I was waiting for him to actually falsely attribute that saying to Imam Shafi'ee after I said that that is his opinion, but you have already refuted it. Nice.

 

[azc]

No. This is a typical strawman argument you use, he is not playing your scholars vs my scholars.I don't think you realize that the consensus of muhadditheen is a form of hujjah, do you?The claim that all fuqaha are his children is your personal opinion. It is not revelation. Imam Shafi'ee refuted his students. Please provide evidence that he was their student. Imam Ahmad said something which you will never be able to hear. So please. Argue with evidences if you can.

No, he's been writing ''your imam'' continuously. See his post. Whereas I regard all fuqha and muhaddisin as ''our fuqha and our muhaddisin'' I don't differentiate between them.... Imam shafi'i rh said,'' all fuqha are children of imam abu hanifa rh in fiqh''...Imam shafi'i rh took ilm from imam Muhammad rh etc and imam ahmad b hambal rh from imam waki rh, imam abu yusuf rh etc....As far as ijma is concerned no ijma of muhaddisin or fuqha can be established in the light strict conditions of ijma... Even the classical scholars had differences in conditions of establishing ijma

 

[ZeeshanParvez]

Ah yes I was waiting for him to actually falsely attribute that saying to Imam Shafi'ee after I said that that is his opinion, but you have already refuted it. Nice.

His premise is false even if it was authentic. Just because someone is someones student does not mean the teacher gets the last say. That is subcontinent mentality.

A student many times excels the teacher. False premise is what he basks on.

He also forgets that unless he admits he does not ascribe to the Hanafi Madhab, Abu Hanifah, Abu Yusuf, and Muhammad bin al-Hasan are his Imaams.

 

[ZeeshanParvez]

As far as ijma is concerned no ijma of muhaddisin or fuqha can be established in the light strict conditions of ijma... Even the classical scholars had differences in conditions of establishing ijma

Once again you utter a false statement.

Ijmaa has been established on issues.

You need to pick up classical books and read them to rid yourself of your ignorance. Spreading ignorance about he Diin of Allaah is a crime one for which you will have to answer in front of the King of kings on a Day when your mother, father, friends, and children will not be there to offer you any respite.

 

[Linkdeutscher]

No, he's been writing ''your imam'' continuously. See his post.

Is he not your imaam? What is the issue? Don't you call him al Imaam al A'tham, i.e the greatest imaam? Why do you get offended then?

Whereas I regard all fuqha and muhaddisin as ''our fuqha and our muhaddisin'' I don't differentiate between them....

You clearly do differentiate in whom you choose to follow and whom you don't.

Imam shafi'i rh said,'' all fuqha are children of imam abu hanifa rh in fiqh''...

Did you meet Imam Shafi'iee in real life? When did he say it?

Imam shafi'i rh took ilm from imam Muhammad rh etc

Even if he did, so? Anyway, it is well established that he debated and refuted him

and imam ahmad b hambal rh from imam waki rh, imam abu yusuf rh etc..

Imam Ahmad was asked if a person who hates the companions of Abu Haneefah will be rewarded. He said yes, such a person will be rewarded.

As far as ijma is concerned no ijma of muhaddisin or fuqha can be established in the light strict conditions of ijma... Even the classical scholars had differences in conditions of establishing ijma

So ijmaa' is impossible to establish? Is that what you are saying?

 

[azc]

Is he not your imaam? What is the issue? Don't you call him al Imaam al A'tham, i.e the greatest imaam? Why do you get offended then?You clearly do differentiate in whom you choose to follow and whom you don't. Did you meet Imam Shafi'iee in real life? When did he say it? Even if he did, so? Anyway, it is well established that he debated and refuted himImam Ahmad was asked if a person who hates the companions of Abu Haneefah will be rewarded. He said yes, such a person will be rewarded.So ijmaa' is impossible to establish? Is that what you are saying?

see this link for your previous post what other 3 madhab say regarding women's salah

.https://ia600809.us.archive.org/11/items/SalahOfMenAndWomen/Salah of Men and Women.pdf

 

[azc]

Once again you utter a false statement.

Ijmaa has been established on issues.

You need to pick up classical books and read them to rid yourself of your ignorance. Spreading ignorance about he Diin of Allaah is a crime one for which you will have to answer in front of the King of kings on a Day when your mother, father, friends, and children will not be there to offer you any respite.

Ijma of Sahaba ikam RA is approved (unanimously). Rest is disputed among scholars.

 

[azc]

His premise is false even if it was authentic. Just because someone is someones student does not mean the teacher gets the last say. That is subcontinent mentality.

A student many times excels the teacher. False premise is what he basks on.

He also forgets that unless he admits he does not ascribe to the Hanafi Madhab, Abu Hanifah, Abu Yusuf, and Muhammad bin al-Hasan are his Imaams.

Everyone is watching your mentality to refute fuqha ahnaf.

I respect all classical scholars and imam but your mind/heart is replete with hatred.

 

[azc]

The thread was started to share the knowledge regarding salah but it has been derailed and two respectable members have focussed their energy on degrading the fuqha ahnaf.

 

[azc]

Now I further highlight your ignorance. No one is a child of Abu Hanifah in fiqh. Let me guide you to the fabricated quote you used.

“Hadith or Ahlul Hadith” p 39 quoting from “Tarikh Baghdad” v 13 p 346:


“Ash-Shafi’i said: “Attach yourself to Abu Hanifah and his students, because people are dependant in Fiqh to Abu Hanifah”


Answer: the narration contains the liar Ahmad Al-Hamani.


Also quoting from “Manaqib Abu Hanifah” of Al-Kurdari p 99 that Ash-Shafi’i said that he did not see anyone more Faqih than Abu Hanifah.


Answer: This narration also comes from “Tarikh Baghdad” of Al-Khateeb v 13 p 346, and one of its narrators, Zakariya ibn Abdur Rahman is Majhul.

Can you give scan pages where these narratos have been declared weak and whose statement is this?

 

[azc]

[MENTION=37280]ZeeshanParvez[/MENTION]
Do you give any respect for imam Dhabi rh. He wrote

Shafiee said: People are children of Abu Haneefa in fiqh. I say: Fiqh and Deducing rulings from fiqh is clear from this Imam. This is something where there is no doubt. (Then dahabee writes the arabic poetry which means) Even If there is a need to provide evidence for emittance of the day, Then according to the people who have this type of mind nothing is authentic. Two volumes can be written on the life of Imam, this was the life of Imam. May Allah be please with him and shower his mercy on him. He was martyred in 150 Hijrah because someone gave him poison. He was 70 years old at that time.{ السیر :6/403 }


Will you mind to see this salafi link and do tawba from this grudge and hatred

http://www.systemoflife.com/articles/refutation/288-in-defense-of-abu-hanifa