IB Kitchen Club

[*charisma*]

Oke, this is how i am going to do in'sha'Allah.

500 gr of whole wheat flour, 330 ml of luke-warm water, 7 gr of yeast, 1 tea spoon of salt, rub the sides of the bread box with oil.

After kneading it the first time, let it rise for 30 minutes, then change it in to shape of the box and once again let it rise for 30 minutes in the bread box. In the mean time let the combi-micro wave on hot air mode reach temperature of 220 c. After that put the bread box in and leave it for 10 minutes on 210 c and bring it back to 180 c for 30 minutes.

If that is done, i will take it out in'sha'Allah and leave it to cool down under a kitchen towel for some time.

Did i miss something?

ps, does the height matter? Because i put it on a grate that is used i believe for other dishes. or just leave the bread box on the floor of the combi-microwave?

Also, isn't yeast..just yeast? (mine is dry yeast). I leave it in the refrigerator, until i need to use it.

Do not use luke warm. You need water that is warm for a bath like around 43C. And you have to let it rise until the dough doubles in size. Afterwards, take push out the air and form it into a ball shape that fits the pan and put it in the pan. Let it rise a 2nd time til its above the pan and place it in the preheated oven @180c. It shouldnt take long to rise a 2nd time.

 

[*charisma*]

Wait what confuses me even more is this. In the past lets say the time of Rasullah(saws). How did they get their hands on yeast, as yeast is bacteria right? By giving it more time to rise, one can use less yeast right? Also did you ever made bread WITHOUT yeast?

Yes you can make flat breads without yeast like rotis and wraps/tortillas but those are made on the stove. Yeast eventually dies because there isnt enough sugar for it to feed on but that takes like 2 days. But the gas coming from yeast is what makes bread fluffy so if you dont let that gas happen the bread becomes dense. Im on my mobile so this is too much to explain

 

[Simple_Person]

Do not use luke warm. You need water that is warm for a bath like around 43C. And you have to let it rise until the dough doubles in size. Afterwards, take push out the air and form it into a ball shape that fits the pan and put it in the pan. Let it rise a 2nd time til its above the pan and place it in the preheated oven @180c. It shouldnt take long to rise a 2nd time.

But i need to shape it to the shape of the bread box right? Because the bread will rise, but not expand horizontally right?

Sorry to say this sister, but conflicting messages are so tiring for me. On internet people say luke-warm water, you say warm water, some people say need to give more time to rise, some say no you don't, some say indeed about 25 gr of yeast sister herb is not the only one saying this..while some say even 5 gr of yeast..

What is this .....(you fill the word) because this is really frustrating and infuriating. Is there TOO MUCH to ask to make a SIMPLE bread these days? (I am not attacking you guys, but just in general why people say thing that are not close to each other but rather on the different end of the rope.

It is like somebody saying..no you must NOT use sugar, but salt, while somebody else says..no salt, but sugar, and somebody else says no sugar or salt, but vinegar. What is going on..

 

[Simple_Person]

Yes you can make flat breads without yeast like rotis and wraps/tortillas but those are made on the stove. Yeast eventually dies because there isnt enough sugar for it to feed on but that takes like 2 days. But the gas coming from yeast is what makes bread fluffy so if you dont let that gas happen the bread becomes dense. Im on my mobile so this is too much to explain

Oke, finally some logic..that i can follow. Yeast only needed for bread to rise or else it will become dense. Makes sense...like what happened to this bread i baked.

However, what is this whole issue with sister herb then also saying 500 gr can be used for 2 bread? Does she has some other type of bread in mind? I am talking about height of 12 cm and about 31 cm in length..the typical english bread.

Because making wraps type of bread (nan), with 500 gr of flour you can make A LOT of nan.

Our Kurdish nan bread type..

 

[sister herb]

Wait what confuses me even more is this. In the past lets say the time of Rasullah(saws). How did they get their hands on yeast, as yeast is bacteria right? By giving it more time to rise, one can use less yeast right? Also did you ever made bread WITHOUT yeast?

Yeast is one specific of fungus.

The oldest way is of course make bread without yeast. I have done such breads many times. We call them in my country as "rieska". Once my grandfather teached me how to make such bread; mix wheat flour, salt and water, make flat bread between your hands and bake it on the flat stone beside of the campfire. At the time of the Prophet they might made bread by the similar method.

About yeast and rising time; no, you still need same amount of yeast. If you let your bread dough rise too long time, it will falls and result is just same if you don´t rise dough at all.

 

[*charisma*]

But i need to shape it to the shape of the bread box right? Because the bread will rise, but not expand horizontally right?

Sorry to say this sister, but conflicting messages are so tiring for me. On internet people say luke-warm water, you say warm water, some people say need to give more time to rise, some say no you don't, some say indeed about 25 gr of yeast sister herb is not the only one saying this..while some say even 5 gr of yeast..

What is this .....(you fill the word) because this is really frustrating and infuriating. Is there TOO MUCH to ask to make a SIMPLE bread these days? (I am not attacking you guys, but just in general why people say thing that are not close to each other but rather on the different end of the rope.

It is like somebody saying..no you must NOT use sugar, but salt, while somebody else says..no salt, but sugar, and somebody else says no sugar or salt, but vinegar. What is going on..

There's a science behind making bread. So I'll try to explain this the best I can inshallah.

You have to create an environment where the yeast will be active. The optimal environment for yeast is with water at 43-46C. If it is higher than that, the yeast will die, and if it is lower than that, then the yeast will just work more slowly.

Next, in regards to how much yeast. The more yeast you put in, the more activity will be in the dough, so that means it will rise a lot faster since they are eating the sugars in the dough. What will happen if you put too much yeast? The dough may collapse because all of the yeast will be active at one time eating all the sugars until there are none left to keep the dough fluffy. (Imagine mixing vinegar and baking soda. The solution fizzes up really fast, but then it dies out.) So dependiing on how much yeast you use, you can have it rise a little bit (for things like pizza and flat breads), or a lot (for breads like yours).

The reason for the second rise is because while the yeast is in it's active mode after you make the dough, the dough starts rising. So when it doubles in size, you punch out all of the air inside and redistribute the food for the yeast. So now they will be even more active, but you will need to let the dough rise again in the pan so that you can bake it.

Bread is very forgiving, that means you can do it more than one way and it will still come out good. For example, you can make dough and let it rise in the fridge! It will develop more flavor and you can bake it the next day. You can use lukewarm water or optimal temp. water. You can add salt with or without the yeast (I personally never saw the difference). All methods will work because it can be made different ways.

In regards to shaping the dough. It doesn't have to be perfectly shaped, because as it rises the 2nd time it will take the form of the pan on its own. Just roll it into a ball and shape it a bit to fit the pan properly.

 

[Simple_Person]

There's a science behind making bread. So I'll try to explain this the best I can inshallah.

You have to create an environment where the yeast will be active. The optimal environment for yeast is with water at 43-46C. If it is higher than that, the yeast will die, and if it is lower than that, then the yeast will just work more slowly.

Next, in regards to how much yeast. The more yeast you put in, the more activity will be in the dough, so that means it will rise a lot faster since they are eating the sugars in the dough. What will happen if you put too much yeast? The dough may collapse because all of the yeast will be active at one time eating all the sugars until there are none left to keep the dough fluffy. (Imagine mixing vinegar and baking soda. The solution fizzes up really fast, but then it dies out.) So dependiing on how much yeast you use, you can have it rise a little bit (for things like pizza and flat breads), or a lot (for breads like yours).

The reason for the second rise is because while the yeast is in it's active mode after you make the dough, the dough starts rising. So when it doubles in size, you punch out all of the air inside and redistribute the food for the yeast. So now they will be even more active, but you will need to let the dough rise again in the pan so that you can bake it.

Bread is very forgiving, that means you can do it more than one way and it will still come out good. For example, you can make dough and let it rise in the fridge! It will develop more flavor and you can bake it the next day.

In regards to shaping the dough. It doesn't have to be perfectly shaped, because as it rises the 2nd time it will take the form of the pan on its own. Just roll it into a ball and shape it a bit to fit the pan properly.

This i can finally understand. So much depends on what kind of bread you want, but also how much time you want to spend on it..are you in a haste? or do you have more time to spare..etc.

Another question to this is, lets say i even put 50 gr of yeast in it and let it do what it wants to do. Is it bad for my health? Although the bacteria might die, because lack of sugar after some time, but still what happens to their "bodies"?? What is the science behind that?

You say 40-43C, regular tap water (warm water) it is said here that better to not use it, because it contains more lead in warm tap water. So how do you do it? Boiling the water reaches i believe 100C doing so as it evaporates when reaching it. But that again is too hot for the yeast...

 

[sister herb]

I warm the water in the kettle but I don´t let it to boil. As it has to be lukewarm, I try it with my finger. You soon will learn to figure the right temperature by this way. +42 or 43 C is a little warmer than your finger but not burning. When water is +60 C, you can see the water vapor (then better not to put your finger to there any more). Or if you like, you can use candy thermometer.

 

[*charisma*]

This i can finally understand. So much depends on what kind of bread you want, but also how much time you want to spend on it..are you in a haste? or do you have more time to spare..etc.

Another question to this is, lets say i even put 50 gr of yeast in it and let it do what it wants to do. Is it bad for my health? Although the bacteria might die, because lack of sugar after some time, but still what happens to their "bodies"?? What is the science behind that?

You say 40-43C, regular tap water (warm water) it is said here that better to not use it, because it contains more lead in warm tap water. So how do you do it? Boiling the water reaches i believe 100C doing so as it evaporates when reaching it. But that again is too hot for the yeast...

Yes you got it!

Loool @ bodies. They die/get cooked in the bread. They are actually still active for a bit in the oven and yes it is safe to eat. Dead yeast i hear is very nutritional. Idk much about it though.

As for the water, i usually heat it up in a cup for 30 sec in the microwave, or as sis herb sugested you can use a stove. If it is too hot which happens to me sometimes, add room temperature water until it reaches the temperature you want. Also if you have, a thermometer helps a lot.

 

[sister herb]

I almost lost my appetite while thinking that I eat dead bodies of yeast when eating bread...

:uuh:

I better not to think about it at all.

 

[*charisma*]

I almost lost my appetite while thinking that I eat dead bodies of yeast when eating bread...

;D ;D dead yeast bodies is what gives bread that nice flavor mmmmm

 

[Simple_Person]

I almost lost my appetite while thinking that I eat dead bodies of yeast when eating bread...

:uuh:

I better not to think about it at all.

It is what it is. Enjoy their "intestines" as well. Also enjoy eating or swallowing their "gasses" ;D

 

[Simple_Person]

Yes you got it!

Loool @ bodies. They die/get cooked in the bread. They are actually still active for a bit in the oven and yes it is safe to eat. Dead yeast i hear is very nutritional. Idk much about it though.

As for the water, i usually heat it up in a cup for 30 sec in the microwave, or as sis herb sugested you can use a stove. If it is too hot which happens to me sometimes, add room temperature water until it reaches the temperature you want. Also if you have, a thermometer helps a lot.

This suddenly now makes perfect sense. As the definition of bread isn't the same with everybody that is why much of the recipe is so different that it sounds contradictory. Not everybody really are aiming to make English bread rather just some "beatiful for the eyes"buns and such which I don't care whatsoever if it looks beautiful.

I am a very practical person as long as it is tasty and healthy and able to make a sandwich with it I am a happy camper.

 

[MuslimInshallah]

Assalaamu alaikum Simple Person,


(smile) Making bread is an art, in my opinion. For years, I tried on and off following recipes and all sorts of conflicting advice. And my bread was... (twinkle) solidly nutritious.

Then I learnt how to make very simple bread. You need good quality bread flour (pastry flour is no good). You need to look around, and experiment with different flours to find one that works well for you. You might also wish to mix white and whole wheat flour.

With a large family, and not much time, I just made a simple, not very fluffy bread. (smile) I can't give you exact quantities, because 1) I had to learn this in an environment without exact devices, and 2) the environmental conditions make a difference (for instance, the amount of humidity in the air and the temperature).

(smile) You just need a big bowl, a baking sheet, an oven, flour, salt, yeast and warm (not hot) water. Scoop a few good-sized handfuls of flour into the bowl, add enough yeast to fill the hollow part of the palm of your hand (the exact quantity is not super important- if you have a bit less yeast, it may take a bit more time to rise the dough. But don't go overboard...there are limits to how fast the dough will rise. And the taste may be a bit different with too much. Also... your hands may be larger than my small ones...). Then add less than this of salt (different people have different tastes, and you can adjust to what you prefer over time). Mix all the dry ingredients. Then you add water. (smile) I prefer from the tap when possible, because it's just so much easier...

How much water? Well you need enough to make a soft, not sticky dough. If you put too much, and your dough is sticky, just knead in a little more flour. Bread is very forgiving. Then you can knead the dough in the bowl (I do this kneeling on the floor, so I can use my weight to help me knead- (smile) I am not a very strong person). You can knead, and sort of flip the bowl around in a circle to knead from all directions. The advantage to doing the kneading in the bowl is it really cuts down on clean-up afterwards. (smile) Don't worry if your dough is not perfect- you will learn over time what "feels" right. If the bread is a bit dense... that's ok. You can still eat it, and it's nice and filling. (smile) Of course, you will never get bread that's like store-bought bread... but that's an advantage, in my opinion. Store-bought bread is not very filling. Good quality bakeries can make real, wholesome bread that is also fairly fluffy. (smile) However, after discussing their methods with a local baker, I realized that I don't have the time to do everything they do, nor to watch the time for the different steps. If you really want fluffy bread and have time... then perhaps you could go and chat with a local baker?

The dough should be soft and very slightly sticky, but not enough to adhere to the skin on your wrist. I leave the bread to rise just once. The bread should be sealed in a warm place. You could put a lid on the bowl, or use a plastic bag. If it is cold and dry (like a Canadian winter!), then you might want to wrap your covered bowl in a comforter or blanket. Or you could warm your oven and put the covered bowl in (a bit warm only! Not too much, or it will be too hot and kill your yeast... though if your yeast does die, you can dissolve some more in a little water, and knead it into the dough, adding flour as needed to get the right consistency. Bread is forgiving...). (smile) I wouldn't use a plastic bag as a cover in the oven, though. I personally use a very large pot lid with cans of food to weight it tightly shut.

Once risen, you can form a couple of balls with the dough. Flour your hand a little, and form disks of dough by squishing and stretching. Rub flour on one side (so the dough won't stick to the baking sheet), then put the disk on the baking sheet. Make a hole in the centre (it cooks better like this, though the hole may close during baking). Put the baking sheet(s) in a cold oven, and set the temperature to 400 degrees fahrenheit. The length of time will depend on your oven, and on the size of your bread. But my roughly 8 inch disks cook in 45 minutes into round loaves.

(smile) This may seem hard at first. And your bread may not be perfect immediately. But it is simple, fairly quick, and my children liked the fresh bread.

(smile) I hope this hasn't confused you more. Basically, just be prepared to experiment. Like all arts, bread making takes time to learn to do well. (smile) Or in my case, adequately.


May God, the Kind, Bless you for your efforts to eat food that is wholesome, halal and therefore pleasing to Him.

 

[Simple_Person]

-

Oke, i have went to my aunt and i have done the study about iprax/dolma..a SHOCKING truth. This finding puts the iprax/dolma of the Kurds on a WHOLE different level than the ones made by others.

What is this finding i am talking about? To get the delicious sourly taste of the iprax/dolma, my aunt and my sister (on the phone) confirmed to me that Kurds use smaq. According to my aunt is that the Turks and others use a lot of tomato puree to get this sourly taste, which makes sense why when i eat those yaprax to me it has no flavor, while this specific sourly taste is what it makes to me my favorite dish.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumac

So knowing this important ingredient what else have i come to know?

How she made it.

These are stuffed (although i have also said sometimes onions, potatoes, eggplants are used as well)

- Grape leaves
- Some leaves of a vegetable that i do not know how it is called, although it isn't necessary to also make it with hits
- ox heart cabbage
- bell peppers

Picture 1 bell peppers: https://app.box.com/s/p9gjufbsiufblyzghe9zgf2d36kilqyu
Picture 2 bell peppers: https://app.box.com/s/982fi7rr5epwgq6i6elsibwctg4p0mlh
Picture 3 grape leaves: https://app.box.com/s/0m4bvyy3hq7t0l26lacmd97dlibx691h
Picture 4 ox-heart cabbage: https://app.box.com/s/toxadiuod2r0f3vxsms0fy2ohlf2ixnn
Picture 5 cheek'n aff couse : https://app.box.com/s/ykzc47bm7xgqp6fyw4gw9uxph3meconu
Picture 6 Parsley: https://app.box.com/s/gv4uwv07fhzi5trf6jpo9nu13ghbc5fh
Picture 7 Unknown: https://app.box.com/s/fucqlsioxkd7ghf0bc5r4z925pww2iep
Picture 8 Unknown: https://app.box.com/s/me5snvob947r4w60oy3wayt2gx0d2jql
Picture 9 Unknown: https://app.box.com/s/v3tamtorm268fnctzuazr2x6uj4q8v8s

Do please tell me what that "grass" is called (pictures 7, 8, 9).

The ox-heart cabbage is "boiled" on a small fire so it becomes soft and you can take off the leaves. Directly when the leaves have taken off because they have become soft, the leaves are being washed under cold water (tap water). This to prevent them to become all soft and fall apart. The grape leaves also were for a brief time "boiled" as those leaves i believe were take from the freezer so they can become soft. My aunt said the grape leaves that you have gotten from those jars contain i believe a lot of salt (method to conserve the leaves in the jar). So you have to wash them properly first. That is why fresh grape leaves are better to be used (also off course needs to be cooked first to make them soft to be able to wrap them).

Picture 10 ox-heart cabbage being boiled: https://app.box.com/s/94m5yxg2gb3ks46spslockw7uw6tj924
Picture 11 ox-heart cabbage being boiled: https://app.box.com/s/9bhujk3x0kl9arxflz9udijpnog6t8yy
Picture 12 Grape leaves being boiled: https://app.box.com/s/jh27faytgfch015ux0hdqhu981lz5lvm
Picture 13 boiled ox-heart cabbage leaves washed under tap water: https://app.box.com/s/08k4z1nlf6s2oq9vxe3rnzwty3vk1nae
Picture 14 Washed ox-heart cabbage leaves: https://app.box.com/s/16ytg03eztmb2jclpppsoouwzbbs2gpg
Picture 16 Emptied bell pepper to be filled up later on: https://app.box.com/s/8xzrayf4b64ev36rphh4dk9p2zoatws1
Picture 16 Leaves that have been washed to be used: https://app.box.com/s/31k9uvgmx29bizcgx1y0ne884eqxm7um
Picture 17 Leaves that have been washed to be used: https://app.box.com/s/yhf8fpxvvvjgn94t0674ov3s19wpdgzs
Picture 17 Leaves and other stuff washed ready to be used: https://app.box.com/s/73sriroqmvh18fox8k7pi8purvaleoiq
Picture 18 Chicken being washed: https://app.box.com/s/19ebth43atols4ej787r844gp9gi9ilc

After the preparations, the mix is being created with rice, parsley, some grounded bell peppers, onions, garlic (off with balance). Because my aunt puts them in a blender onions and garlic becomes so fine i do not taste them. My mother however cuts them by hand which to me the taste is very easy to notice when eating yaprax/dolma my other makes. So after everything is being blended rice (washed first)(my aunt said basmati rice is not used because it is too dry) and tomato puree with some seasoning like grounded black pepper.

Picture 19 ready to be blended: https://app.box.com/s/kbktwf6f74yko7ihfqo6s94t5stiwa60
Picture 20 Everything has been blended: https://app.box.com/s/28zg20vj37e7b7s12nnzyfrp2o8jayl0
Picture 21 Completed mix: https://app.box.com/s/x007ux24d6acn2ktadxuvqzovrlhulsz

Now the leaves and bell peppers are being stuffed with the rice mix/stuffing.

Picture 22 Chicken laid down on the bottom of the pan - this gets all the delicious sourly taste in the end: https://app.box.com/s/g2dxg21i54egr1d9468oe1hzq7nrlws6
Picture 23 stuffed bell pepper: https://app.box.com/s/ockpkemo4saoy4ksdwm573yt91py1i2q
Picture 24 wrapped of those unknown leaves: https://app.box.com/s/ajzlbitph6i9n7ai9tlnd5wgwck606ws
Picture 25 Layers are being created in the pan: https://app.box.com/s/c5aa13hqahf59znpisj1xj2azk7p4dmi
Picture 26 Last wrapped leaves fill up: https://app.box.com/s/snueuurkckkhgfbijdrg4yb7mk549zhc

Because certain leaves (ox-heart cabbage laves) are quite large, she splits them from the middle. So they do not get too large. After the wrapping/stuffing is done it is being put on the fire with i believe also some oil added to it, water, salt, and sumaq. Every now and then they are being checked and some water is being added so it does not burn but the rice is being boiled. She said in that very large pan about 3 spoons of smuq are being added to it.

Sorry that i do not have any pictures of the end-result. They were very delicious.

 

[*charisma*]

Assalamu ALaikum

;D I sure did enjoy your post bro. We use sumac in general, but you're right, I've never heard about it being used in dolmas. That is a cool find.
The best grape leaves are the ones that are naturally really sour..they're sooooo good! However, another trick to achieve that is by using citric acid aka lemon salt. It works really well too if one cannot find a good quality sumac in their area. Alhemdulilah you enjoyed the meal. The stuffing looks delicious mashallah Kudos to your aunt for being able to feed you the mafia family. Subhanallah it's a lot of work and it's eaten in only a matter of minutes

Do please tell me what that "grass" is called (pictures 7, 8, 9).

That looks like swiss chard, or baby swiss because the leaves are small. We call it silq.

 

[Simple_Person]

Assalamu ALaikum

;D I sure did enjoy your post bro. We use sumac in general, but you're right, I've never heard about it being used in dolmas. That is a cool find.
The best grape leaves are the ones that are naturally really sour..they're sooooo good! However, another trick to achieve that is by using citric acid aka lemon salt. It works really well too if one cannot find a good quality sumac in their area. Alhemdulilah you enjoyed the meal. The stuffing looks delicious mashallah Kudos to your aunt for being able to feed you the mafia family. Subhanallah it's a lot of work and it's eaten in only a matter of minutes



That looks like swiss chard, or baby swiss because the leaves are small. We call it silq.

Yes she also indeed said some try to use lemon salt to get the taste but nothing beats sumac to get the taste. I speak out of eating experience . I would say try it once..once you go sumac you go towards success and don't take less than it.

It is indeed swiss chard. JazakAllah khairan. Gonna try to find the seeds or some sort to grow them on my balcony as well.

Btw that "blender" is a slicer. I hope you have come to know enough about it to give you a direction how to go and make it. I am ready to do my thesis about it so I can finish iprax/dolman school.

 

[Simple_Person]

-

A update about sumaq in iprax/dolma. My sister said the sumaq is put in a colander like these..with very small holes so the sumaq does not go through it. The sour water from that is poured with the iprax/dolma (after they have been put on fire).

 

[*charisma*]

A update about sumaq in iprax/dolma. My sister said the sumaq is put in a colander like these..with very small holes so the sumaq does not go through it. The sour water from that is poured with the iprax/dolma (after they have been put on fire).

Ok that's good you mentioned that because I would have just sprinkled it in loool. BTW have you tried baking bread again?

 

[Simple_Person]

Ok that's good you mentioned that because I would have just sprinkled it in loool. BTW have you tried baking bread again?

Yeah, i was also planning to sprinkle it over ;D.

One of these days i am having guests so after they have left i will in'sha'Allah try to bake the bread again. I am trying slowly to change habits in this case making own bread. To lay certain foundation one should not rush it, but be determined to do so. With it, by taking your time you can reflect every action done when experimenting with it, so you do not have a habit that is not solid (bread that has no taste or force the habit while the heart has not accepted it yet. This being you rejecting it.).