These verses would also be more instructive:
57. He said: "Have you come to drive us out of our land with your magic, O Moses?
58. "But we can surely produce magic to match yours! So make an appointment between us and you, which we shall not fail to keep - neither we nor you - in a place where both shall have even chances."
59. Moses said: "Your appointment is the Day of the Festival, and let the people be assembled when the sun is well up."
60. So Pharaoh withdrew: He concerted his plan, and then came (back).
61. Moses said to him: Woe to you! Do not invent a lie against Allah, lest He destroy you (at once) utterly by chastisement: he has failed who invents!"
62. So they disputed, one with another, over their affair, but they kept their talk secret.
63. They said: "These two are certainly (expert) magicians: their object is to drive you out from your land with their magic, and to do away with your most cherished institutions.
64. "Therefore concert your plan, and then assemble in (serried) ranks: He wins (all along) today who gains the upper hand."
65. They said: "O Moses! whether do you want to throw (first) or do you prefer that we be the first to throw?"
66. He said, "rather, you throw first!" Then behold their ropes and their rods-so it seemed to him on account of their magic - began to be in lively motion!
67. So Moses conceived in his mind a (sort of) fear.
68. We said: "Fear not! for you have indeed the upper hand:
69. "Throw that which is in you right hand: Quickly will it swallow up that which they have faked what they have faked is but a magician's trick: and the magician thrives not, (no matter) where he goes /what level he attains."
From Quran, Chapter 20
Abz,
I had to look up what 'hazbara' is.
I didn't write "hazbara" I wrote "hasbara", and the search on google for the term "hasbara" as of 26 july 2017 only returns results with "hasbara" on the first three pages which I checked. Now that I searched "hazbara" the majority of results were in a foreign language, interesting......though one one them was definitely in english
Zionist Hazbara Troll Has a Melt Down.......
Next time you ask me for a link to the noble Quran, I'll tell you I had to look up what a Quran is. That ought to explain a lot.
What's "it"?
I am not a Jew, nor am I an Israeli.
Hmmmm, an agnostic who uses "G-d", do the computers at your place automatically censor the term "God" and change it to "G-d" or is it the central server?
Pro-Israel activists can use the 'plain folks' technique by speaking as a 'person from the street'
whilst supporting Israel. The 'average guy in the street' would happily condemn terrorism in
all its forms and support 'Western ideals'. In the context of a debate on the Middle East, this
can easily be equated with support for Israel.
.......Bandwagon
Most people, when in doubt, are happy to do what other people are doing. This is the
bandwagon effect. People are happy to be part of the crowd, and subtle manipulators can
play on this desire by emphasizing the large size of their support. Although it is reasonable
that people are given a chance to find out how many other supporters a speaker or movement
has, often it is possible to create the impression of extensive support - through gathering all
supporters in one place, or through poorly conducted opinion polls - in an attempt to persuade
people who are keen to follow the crowd.
Israel activists can commission opinion polls amongst groups who favour Israel, and use these
to give the impression that Israel is the 'team to support'. Demonstrations, and even photos
that give the impression of large numbers can help to create the impression that Israel is even
more popular than it is.
Remember that playing with perceptions of numbers supporting a cause can be problematic if
this means that genuine supporters become complacent.
Palestinian activists' success at creating the impression that they have enormous support is
hard to counter.
The most obvious and most effective response is to try and seem even better
supported. Otherwise, simply start to deal with the issues, especially using 'plain folks'
techniques, to gain support that is committed, and not just jumping on the bandwagon.
Hasbara handbook 2009
My request for a link to the latest version still stands.
Your insinuation that I post here, because a 3rd party induces me too, is plain wrong.
What do you mean by "induce" - does that include pay, love, warped bias?
Do what? Post totally derailing and unjustly biased comments that appear to come right out of the hasbara handbook, yet are devoid of reality? Such as:
The following set of quotes between dashed lines ---- is just the beginning of a post reply and is not picked and chosen from seperate parts, I have linked the page in order to maintain context and allow readers to make references:
--------------
(Not?) Etn (Yahoo?) says:
Israel land grab law 'ends hope of two-state solution'
I have NO IDEA why are you posting all those videos.
What are you trying to say? I can post videos too! I can tell you a lot about how Palestinian Arabs kill Israeli civilians in HUGE numbers. I can tell you about incitement to violence from Palestinian Authority and post VIDEOS of sermons from many imams that call for murderer of Jews. I can do all of this, but to what end?
The manual says: (I feel like Bruce Forsyth - but I'm not,
..........honest)
(Schnide ref to: Family fortunes - "play your cards right")
To disguise point scoring, comments need to seem to be logical, and to follow from what was
said before. Use phrases that subtly change the agenda or reframe the debate to do this:
"Well, that's not really the right question…"
"I don't think we should be focusing on …, the real point is that…"
"That's an interesting point, but I don't think we can really begin to address it before
we think about…"
"You seem to assume that …, an assumption that's impossible to share. Really, we
need to consider…"
"It's a shame that the Palestinian leadership have led the Palestinian people down a
dead-end, where conflict and violence leads to tragic situations. Things would have
been better if…"
"I really think that we would all be better served by looking forward instead of back at
the things that happened over 50 years ago. The past is important to note, but we
have to move on in an attempt for peace. That's why I think we would be better
served talking about…"
The examples above ‘field’ the comments that precede them by giving the appearance of
addressing what was said.
They then go on to reframe the discussion by setting a new
agenda.
What Points To Make
Point scoring needs to be focused. Because the people listening to 'point scoring' are only
paying partial attention, only two or three points have a chance of 'sticking'.
For this reason, focus point scoring on a few points supporting Israel, and a few points pointing out
weaknesses in Palestinian positions.
These points should be made again and again, in as
many forums as possible. If people hear something often enough they come to believe it.
Attempts to make too many different points will result in the audience remembering nothing.
......try to disguise any points as questions.
Hasbara handbook 2009
Maybe go research "ghetto uprisings"
I'll post some details so that readers can ponder over whether or not the nazi violence was the same as - or comparable to - that of those whom the nazis referred to as terrorists:
RESISTANCE IN GHETTOS
Between 1941 and 1943, underground resistance movements developed in approximately 100 ghettos in Nazi-occupied eastern Europe (about one-fourth of all ghettos), especially in Poland, Lithuania, Belorussia, and the Ukraine. Their main goals were to organize uprisings, break out of the ghettos, and join partisan units in the fight against the Germans........
........ Weapons were smuggled into ghettos. Inhabitants in the ghettos of Vilna, Mir, Lachva (Lachwa), Kremenets, Czestochowa, Nesvizh, Sosnowiec, and Tarnow, among others, resisted with force when the Germans began to deport ghetto populations. In Bialystok, the underground staged an uprising just before the final destruction of the ghetto in September 1943. Most of the ghetto fighters, primarily young men and women, died during the fighting.
The Warsaw ghetto uprising in the spring of 1943 was the largest single revolt by Jews. Hundreds of Jews fought the Germans and their auxiliaries in the streets of the ghetto.
Next, video added to prove that abuses are ordered by the criminal yahood leaders:
The videos you posted are taken out of context for the most part.
Please understand that IDF has no standing orders to kill Palestinian Arabs.
However, nobody would deny that IDF pushes Arabs to the brink.
It’s a complicated situation and that is what happens when you have a dispute.
And in this dispute it is the Arabs who have no desire to settle the dispute.
So, they get pushed and controlled by the stronger power.
When the Arabs decide to negotiate, everything that you object and post about will stop.
There are other videos, you know…there are other points of view and also there is ample evidence that the lives of ordinary Palestinian Arabs have improved dramatically under Israeli control. Here are some factual observation I collected for you:
Criticise Actions not Existence
In general the role of an Israel activist is to defend Israel (as a country), but not necessarily to
endorse every action of the Government, Army or people.
If a Jewish activist genuinely disagrees with some action, it is legitimate to say so, provided this is done in a way that
defends and supports Israel as a country, and attempts to place the action in the context of a complex situation.
This can be done by reframing comments, for example:
"I understand where you are coming from, personally I also think that it was wrong of the army to destroy those houses, however you should also consider that Israelis are under a daily threat of
terrorist attack and…"
For more on this point see Communication Styles: Point Scoring and Genuine Debate – p. 8
Regarding "negotiations" I think most intelligent people who are thirty and above have become tired of the CLICHE, and are aware of how it is used to push the illusion that things are about to be sorted and that there is no need for international uproar, and also how these "negotiations" and "the peace process" are used to bait people whilst making unacceptable demands with the express aim of getting the Palestian people and whatever leadership they have to reject them - so that they can be portrayed as unreasonable in absence of proper context, and can then be falsely portrayed as "aggressors" when they continue the lawful and just struggle in Allah :swt: path.
Below are some suggested arguments from the hasbara handbook:
Yasser Arafat and the Palestinian leadership can't be trusted. They have repeatedly broken
promises, and gone against the Oslo Accords. Arafat agrees to things, and then attempts to
go back on them, including agreeing to negotiate over the Israeli presence in the West Bank
and Gaza, and then declaring that violence is justified by this presence, before negotiations
are concluded.
Yasser Arafat and the Palestinian leadership promote violence and refuse negotiation. Arafat
rejected the generous offer Barak made at Camp David outright, and wasn't even interested in
negotiations. Arafat is brutalizing his own people by teaching and promoting violence in
schools, the media, and political forums.
Hasbara handbook 2009
Also
......you have to disarm them from their suspicions before they will be open to learning new facts about Israel.
The first step to winning trust and friends for Israel is showing that you care about peace
for BOTH Israelis and Palestinians and, in particular, a better future for every child.
Indeed, the sequence of your conversation is critical and you must start with empathy for
BOTH sides first. Open your conversation with strong proven messages such as:
“Israel is committed to a better future for everyone – Israelis and Palestinians
alike. Israel wants the pain and suffering to end, and is committed to working
with the Palestinians toward a peaceful, diplomatic solution where both sides can
have a better future. Let this be a time of hope and opportunity for both the
Israeli and the Palestinian people.”
Use Empathy:
Even the toughest questions can be turned around if you are willing to
accept the notion that the other side has at least some validity. If you begin your response
with “I understand and I sympathize with those who…”
you are already building the credibility you will need for your audience to empathize and agree with you.
Indeed, if the heart of your communications is a chorus of finger pointing of “Israel is right, they are wrong” then you will lose more support for Israel than you will gain.
Some people who ALREADY support Israel may nod their heads and say “way to
go,” but people who are not already supportive of Israel will be turned off.
HASBARA GLOBAL LANGUAGE DICTIONARY 2009
Obviously because people will say: LIAR.
5)
Don’t pretend that Israel is without mistakes or fault. It’s not true and no one believes it.
Pretending Israel is free from errors does not pass the smell test. It will only make your listeners question the veracity of everything else you say.
Admitting that Israel has and continues to make mistakes does not undermine the overall justice of Israel’s goals: peace and security and a better quality of life for BOTH sides.
Use humility. “I know that in trying to defend its children and citizens from terrorists
that Israel has accidentally hurt innocent people. I know it, and I’m sorry for it. But
what can Israel do to defend itself?
HASBARA GLOBAL LANGUAGE DICTIONARY 2009
Be careful of your tone. A patronizing, parental tone will turn Americans and Europeans off. We’re at a time in history when Jews in general (and Israelis in particular) are no longer perceived as the persecuted people. In fact, among American and European audiences—sophisticated, educated, opinionated, non-Jewish audiences— Israelis are often seen as the occupiers and the aggressors. With that kind of baggage, it is critical that messages from the pro-Israel spokespeople not come across as supercilious or condescending.
WORDS THAT DON’T WORK
“We are prepared to allow them to build…...”
Israelis cannot “allow” the Palestinians to move forward. They cannot “permit” or “control” or “instruct” the Palestinians to establish commerce, transportation, or a government. If the Palestinians are to be seen as a trusted partner on the path to peace, they must not be subordinated, in perception or in practice, by the Israelis. There is anxiety around activity in the Middle East. The way you talk about it should not add fuel to the fire.
HASBAEA GLOBAL LANGUAGE DICTIONARY 2009
Here's a classic example of feigned remorse and empathy and humility straight out of the textbook:
But then the feined P.R humility vanishes and ridicule appears when it is suggested that the turkish military would - not retaliate - but even dare to send a warship to guard an aid ship carrying essential supplies to Palestinians:
Another show of feigned remorse (considering the continuation of the illegal, immoral, and haram blockade) when business is down, public opinion is low and ally America needs PR and unity in crime:
Notice how the situation was steered and taken off course?
It wasn't about killing citizens from multiple countries -then apologizing to the Turkish ally leadership who took full possession the dispute, and then paying some Turkish families a negligible amount of money for family members who had been purposefully murdered without right, then continuing multi-million dollar deals - it was about the plight of the oppressed people in Palestine, yet that was side-stepped and most people appeared pacified.....
The ridicule and fake alliances will vanish when reality strikes with Allah :swt: 's just judgement at the border inshaAllah, then the unjust deniers of God will know...... it were better to repent.
وَإِذَا تُتْلَى عَلَيْهِمْ آيَاتُنَا بَيِّنَاتٍ قَالَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا لِلَّذِينَ آمَنُوا أَيُّ الْفَرِيقَيْنِ خَيْرٌ مَقَامًا وَأَحْسَنُ نَدِيًّا ﴿۷۳﴾:
When Our clear verses are recited to them the deniers say to the believers: 'Which of the two parties has a better position or company? '
وَكَمْ أَهْلَكْنَا قَبْلَهُمْ مِنْ قَرْنٍ هُمْ أَحْسَنُ أَثَاثًا وَرِئْيًا ﴿۷۴﴾ :
How many generations have We destroyed before them, who were far greater in riches and more boastful!
قُلْ مَنْ كَانَ فِي الضَّلَالَةِ فَلْيَمْدُدْ لَهُ الرَّحْمَنُ مَدًّا حَتَّى إِذَا رَأَوْا مَا يُوعَدُونَ إِمَّا الْعَذَابَ وَإِمَّا السَّاعَةَ فَسَيَعْلَمُونَ مَنْ هُوَ شَرٌّ مَكَانًا وَأَضْعَفُ جُنْدًا ﴿۷۵﴾:
Say: 'Whosoever is in error, let the Most Merciful prolong his life span until they see that which they were threatened, be it a punishment, or the Hour. Then shall they know whose is the worst place and who is weaker in forces. '
From Quran, Chapter 19
---------
Response to @futuwwa 06-01-2017
What??? What are you talking about???-.......
.....How can you possibly accuse me of unfair attitude towards Palestinians? How dare you to call me a “…scam artist…”.
........Anyway, - you are a demagogue and sophist and you have no understanding of the complexities of the Palestinian-Israeli crisis.....
It seems to me that you are afraid to argue on merit, because you have nothing of substance to say. So far all I see in your posts is sophism and demagoguery.
The above quote was with total disregard to facts and sounded like a baseless highly opinionated piece from fox news which aims at the average intelligence majority and where throwing baseless opinions at a void might bear fruit when all argument is lost.
You should realize that you are not on a air-head entertainment forum - but on an Islamic forum where the main focus is on thinking, I believe that you have not thought very well over the matter as to whether you are addressing a critical audience or not, the handbook states:
‘point scoring’ and ‘genuine debate’ - require different techniques,
and the Israel activist must know how to use each technique at the correct time.
Point Scoring
Point scoring is a method of communication that prioritises making certain points favourable
to the speaker, and attacking opponents of the speaker by trying to undermine their positions.
Point scoring communication ought to give the appearance of rational debate, whilst avoiding
genuine discussion. The aim of the Israel activist point scorer is to try to make as many
comments that are positive about Israel as possible, whilst attacking certain Palestinian
positions, and attempting to cultivate a dignified appearance.
Point scoring works because most audience members fail to analyse what they hear. Rather,
they register only a key few points, and form a vague impression of whose 'argument' was
stronger.
When to Point Score
Point scoring is the correct method of communication to use when the audience is likely to be
only partially engaged. Talk radio, student newspapers, large panel discussions, and anything
to do with television or the Internet should probably be viewed as having partially engaged
audiences, and so point scoring is the right way to communicate in these forums.
Point scoring can irritate audiences who are genuinely committed to thinking seriously about
their views on a subject. When talking in serious academic circles, or talking to friends, or
answering questions addressed personally by genuinely interested individuals, it is preferable
to refrain from point scoring, which can seem shallow, and to instead more fully engage using
rational argument.
Hasbara handbook 2009
I Sincerely assure you that you would have replied something along the lines of: "just because my statements appear to be regurgitated from the hasbara handbook and hasbara dictionary, that doesn't prove that they are, since any statement can be found to be similar to something or other else".
True.
But when you pretend to be neutral, non-partisan, and average joe, yet your comments supportive of zionist yahood and criticisms of "Arabs" are detached from reality, propagandistic and lengthy in nature, and you're putting out a whole load of information not based on fact with the apparent aim of obscuring the issue and flooding genuine points that are made which might dissipate support for Israel's criminal actions and status, and on top of that, your comments come straight out of the hasbara handbook, one is forced to conclude: this person has a dog in the fight, he is lying about his neutral stance, and looking through the posts, he appears to be focusing on keeping a debate going in fear that people will come to a just conclusion.
Sincerely,
Abz
P.S. When I come across posts such as yours, I feel as if I am addressing and being addressed by the very same person I've debated on different discussion forums and comments sections over the decades with slight variations in language, but with eerily similar answers to certain posts.
You could say the same of many Muslims, but we candidly admit that our main sources are the same.
That's the difference between giving a genuinely believed opinion - and shilling.
...
