If they can trace their roots back to Adam or Noah, they can even claim planet earth.
I mean why have thousand year chains of land purchases and deeds and testimonies when you just need to search through rubble and find something that never belonged to you or to your family or someone you lawfully purchased the land from? If it's not a fallacy, somebody please tell me the legal requirements for rubble. I'll go look for some old stuff in my dad's attic and throw it in the river thames, then I can send everyone a water bill.
I see…it seems to me that you are under the impression that Muslim Arabs are the ONLY rightful ethnic group in the area of modern Israel. Clearly if that were the case, then I understand your indignation. But this is not the case! Furthermore, we do not need to go anywhere in time in order to show what is legal or what is not.
Still, - let me show you the population data available from the best sources we have. I would go back 200 years only, but we can do more if you wish, however the pattern would remain the same all the way to 4[SUP]th[/SUP] century as estimated:
In 1800, there were 7,000 Jews and 200,000 Muslims, with about 20,000 Christians living in the area of what may call Palestine.
The 1922 census of Palestine was the first census carried out by the authorities of the British Mandate of Palestine, on 23 October 1922. The reported population was 757,182, including the military and persons of foreign nationality. The division into religious groups was 590,390 Muslims, 83,694 Jews, 73,024 Christians, 7,028 Druze, 408 Sikhs, 265 Bahais, 156 Metawalis, and 163 Samaritans.
In 1948, there were approximately 600,000 Jews and about 1.1 million Muslims.
The above clearly shows that the Jews have always lived in the area and were majority in Jerusalem until mid-1800s. When I say always, I imply from about 5000 years ago till present, derived from documents. Archaeological evidence is available to show Jewish presents to about 2700 years before modern times or about 700 years before Christ. All I am trying to show you is that both the Muslims and the Jews and the Christians can stand up and claim the land. Not just Muslims!
Please note that emigration of Muslims from Arabia into Palestine happened in about the same time as Jewish emigration happened starting in sufficient numbers in mid 1800s. More Muslim emigrated in then the Jews. After the British took over from the Turks, UK Government restricted Jewish emigration, but left Muslim Arab emigration unrestricted. This is the reason for the numbers in to be what they were in 1947.
You also spoke of legalities. Well, - in the context of modern history of 20[SUP]th[/SUP] century the only legality of note are the decisions of League of Nations and United Nations. There is nothing else! If you wish to consider the Ottoman Turkey as a country prior to 1918, then you must agree to the fate of Turkish Palestine after 1918. If you do not think of Ottoman Turkey as a country, then we have to say that Palestine was never a country, but an province administered by Turkish empire until the British came in. The British took it from the Turks in the same manner as the Turks came into possessing it back in 1600s. How far do you want to go is your business, but there is only one thing that matters today, - the UN decision of 1947 and, to a degree, the decisions by League of Nations prior to 1947.
What I just told is THE reason why Palestinian Authority will NEVER contest anything in the International Court of Justice against Israel on territorial issues, because PA will most likely lose on legalities alone. Besides the Court has no jurisdiction in the mater anyway, but theoretically, if it did, - the PA will most definitely lose and Israel will most definitely win. So, - PA goes to the court of ‘Public Opinion’ and wins there.
Most countries today consider Israeli possession of West Bank and Golan Heights illegal. This is so, mostly as a result of incessant PA lobbying after the events of 1967 war and naïve hope that Muslim Arabs of Palestine can live next to the Jews of Palestine in peace.
I hope you know that West Bank was supposed to be the State of Palestine after 1947, but it never happened due to Jordan’s desire to keep it as a part of Jordan. This is a good old reality of Arabs not caring for their brother Arabs!
PA will lose because Israeli claim to the land is formidable, - going back to the St. Remo Conference as recognized by League of Nations and grandfathered by UN, indicating that Israel may exist in the West Bank. Furthermore, since Palestine, as a state, never materialized (thanks to Jordanian efforts) and Jordan walking away from any further claim on West Bank after 1967, Israel is now in the position to dispute the 1947 decision of UN on the grounds that its security, as a sovereign state, has greater priority and merit then a none-existing Palestinian entity.
The West Bank was never a part of any country, so Israeli possession of it is not an occupation or a land-grab.
Golan Heights is another matter. And here Syria might have an argument that may stand up on Court. But Syria is in shambles and any argument will be predicated on a peace initiative that Syria under Assad(s) never entertained, - so Israeli annexation of Golan, under the circumstances as a spoils of war, where Israel was an aggrieved party, may have merit and may legally stand. But it is not as clear as the West Bank status. On the West Bank Israel has a great case.
I hope the above was not too technical. The issue of West Bank can be resolved with the parties going to status qua ante of 1947 as a consequence of a negotiating process. However, the Palestinian Authority shows absolutely no appetite for any negotiations with Israel that may involve even minor compromise. PA’s position is paramount to a request of Israel committing a national suicide. Under those conditions PA will agree to negotiate. To wit, - PA says to Israel, - die and then we will be friends. I can post a latest PA’s demands and you will see the prove of the above. Israeli position is one of compromise where both parties may get most of what they want, but not everything. Look up the Israeli peace offers going back to 2000 if you need any further proof.
…so, - there you have it!
I can see that you're responding to a fallacious argument - and would also point out that many illegal settlers don't even have jewish ancestry to back up their fallacious arguments.
Are you an expert of who is and who is not Jewish? Even the rabbinate in Jerusalem with its 900 rabbis is still debating this. Legally speaking, any sovereign state has an absolute right to decide who gets to emigrate in and who doesn’t, with your opinion or mine notwithstanding.
Furthermore Israel is slowly migrating from being a Jewish State to simply being a State, meaning that you do not have to be a Jew to be an Israeli, but you do have to conform to Israeli values, which are greatly predicated on Jewish values. This is a model that any Western country has today. It has not happen in Israel yet, but it is a process.
The result of that process will exclude all those who acts against Israel.
The Law of Return was designed to give refuge to the Jews of the World in the only country where they can feel safe, which is understandable if you consider the past 2000 years of Jewish life culminating with the murder of 6 million by German Nazis.
Another extension to the fallacious argument is that the only way a person can get citizenship in the fake state of israhell is by agreeing to become a war criminal and agreeing that stolen land is legitimate.
…what you are saying is argumentative and a hearsay. You can’t ever show that any land was stolen, because you can never show that the ownership of said land was ever valid. The validity of ownership in question ended with Ottoman Empire being dismembered and British Mandate ending.
Population that either run away in fear or warfare or was displaced does have a right to compensation on merit, but it may not have a right to reclaiming its real estate because of proclaimed hostility to Israel. You can’t have it both ways, - you can’t ask for your home back while advocating for the demise of an authority that now holds your home. You can however ask and should receive ample compensation for your loss. Such compensation has been offered time and again by Israel. Look up proposed initiatives back in 2000 in Camp David.
Even the term "recognizing israhell" is a loaded intellectually dishonest concept, since it is geared towards accepting the internationally criminal illegal map and thereby pretending that all the international resolutions against israhell are irrelevant.
International resolution are relevant, but not legally binding, which why Israel mostly ignores them. However, all countries ignore them, not just Israel. The latest one is China, which was just sited with judgment for Philippines over the China Sea claims. What does China do? Ignores the judgment!
If resolution cannot be ignored, then the war will result and nobody wants that. The only binding resolution is the one that comes form Security Consul, because the threat of military actin becomes real.
I can see why they would focus so much on american and european public opinion though, since the relations include arms deals and other business transactions, along with the fact that the american government and the whole u.n setup loses credibility at home and abroad when it has to veto unanimous international resolutions, and european leaders lose credibility when they refuse to condemn criminal actions by israhell once an act is tabled. I used to wonder why on earth lobbied leaders paid israhell to promote false propaganda warfare against their own citizenry.......the most simple answer is that manipulation of public opinion takes the pressure off corrupt leaders and keeps the false game of pretense diplomacy going.
Perhaps you should look at the very preoccupation that UN has with Israel. Out of the last 35 resolutions that UN did pass, 31 concerned Israel. So, the Arab majority in most relevant UN committees is very much engaged against Israel. This is not fair, since the world has by far more problems than Israel’s issues. So your point is wrong on facts alone.
Furthermore, lobbing is the way of world. All groups are free to lobby. The Israeli lobby is well organized and very efficient. Arabs have the same opportunity here. They can do better.
The reason it appears one sided to you, when you conspiratorially speak of agreements and business transactions, is because Israeli economy is absolutely integrated with the World’s economy. There is just so much of what the world needs that does come out and originate in Israel, - the science, the medicine, the computer microprocessors and associated electronics (including the one you use!), the software, the agriculture, etc. etc. all of that is worth it to the world at large.
What does come out of Arab world? Not very much! And oil is losing its value as we speak. I do not see a bright future for Arab world at this time. I hope it changes though.
Blind democracy can be quite a scary concept when one cares to critically look at what majority demagogues aim and how such demagogues contribute to dumb and dumber by using dumbed down arguments and thereby make their chosen electorate flock even more confused and even more easily able to accept fallacies without question, they basically aim their mind numbing weapons at the 100 mark and succeed in lowering the intelligence of those who don't bother to think and call out the fallacies, what will they do if they lower the average? Aim lower?
I do not engage in demagoguery. I try to support what I say with available data. If you managed to have read my comments above, I hope you find them substantiated and logical and not too argumentative, although some of what I say can be contested, but most of what I say is just facts and logic. I also realize that you may not like what I say, but it does not make it any less pertinent.
Believe me, Israelis will give ‘their collective right arm’ for the possibility of a compromise with PA that will lead to an agreement. Israelis will give up land ad will pay sufficient compensation to all involved in exchange to the reality to live in peace and security. It is possible.
wins, so lets try and get on His side then we'll be part of the winning team even after the generation is reaped.
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try it and you'll know that i'm being truthful, this appears to be a serious concern that would require an answer in order for legitimate concerns to be clarified.