Do you hate modern Western culture?

[keiv]

I was born in the US, in what was once a town which ended up growing to be the largest city in the county, and have lived here my whole life. Once upon a time, it was a great place to live. There really isn't much of a culture here as you would see in other places/countries. As I've gotten older, I've become resistant to the western style way of life and basically became an "isolationist", so to speak. The politics, the culture and the way a lot of people view life here is completely different than how I see it and is anything but Islamic. People claim to be tolerant, but those same people will ridicule you for disagreeing with them. There's a lot of things I disagree with in regards to western way of life but sometimes it can be hard putting it in words, or at least keeping it short.

 

[DanEdge]

I asked about modern Western culture, not traditional Western culture.

The latter gave birth to the former. I could have made a similar list using only examples from 1920 on. The biggest change I see in recent history is that technology has given us the ability to witness and to commiserate with others on the world's greatest heights and lowest depths.

I maintain that one's view of modern Western culture reveals more about the perceiver than the perceived. You, me, and many others on this forum are products of that culture.

I have questions for the man, born of Western culture, who has grown to hate it: Are there elements of your Self that you hate and consider evil? Do you blame your cultural environment for evil, shameful desires within yourself? Do you believe these elements of self would not be present had you been born in a different place, or a different time?

These questions may not apply to you. They are intended to be philosophical and introspective. I hope they make you think as much as they made me.

Dan Edge

 

[CarefulThinker]

Now if you want another reason and to be honest there should be no other reason because everything else connects back to the main reason ...but I will say it still....you remove men, destroy men, emasculate men, remove fatherhood from families and you have what you have. No more morals. It is a wild forest. I am going to give hint to all non-Muslim people out there who hate Islam or Muslims...you want to destroy any Muslim country or country...attack the young youth men and boys. Destroy them with sex, drugs and alcohol and remove fathers from family and you have destroyed the country and wiped it clean and you did not even need to throw a bomb on a country. The non-Muslim people know this already and they are targeting the Muslim country.

And this is the real big issue I see in modern western culture. The traditional family, where children have both a mother and a father is being eradicated, and today we see this a lot. When a child is born, that child has the right to both a mother and a father.

And you also made a very good point on the sex drugs and alcohol as well. I knew someone who was an alcoholic addiction and believe the liver failure was the result, and person died as well.

Modern western society now is so broken in morals it is like comparing a completely smashed up car. It is a write-off.

Today it is all about lies and what is called tolerance is actually intolerance. Western culture is much more intolerant now than in the past, but it is intolerant of good and tolerant of bad/evil. If you criticize evil, you are guilty of "hate speech". If you address a man who pretends to be woman as "he" then you are guilty of mis-pronouning. If you refuse to bake wedding cakes for marriages that you don't consider valid, you will be punished. And if you post anything truthful to a forum of modern culture, you will be banned.

You too made some strong points especially with this gender pronoun garbage. Truth today is new hate speech. I know about cases of what happen to people who refuse to bake wedding cakes for marriages said people did not agree with and from what I understand were fined severely. I have recall reading numerous articles in New York City that businesses can be fined up to $250,000 just for mis-gendering a person. Is this for real?

And now the icing on the cake, recently I read about how a father in Texas is accused of abuse for not agreeing with his ex-wife that his son is a transgender girl. This is insane. A father gets accused of abuse for calling is son a boy? What is going on? Has all sense and reason been lost? When I see more and more craziness such as this, it just further proves that modern western society has just lost all aspects of reality.



One thing I know, is that history repeats itself. Based on all my research, my private studies, modern western society is in my opinion, modern day Sodom and Gomorrah. And those who know their history, know what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah.

 

[Zafran]

salaam

You might be shocked but the west isn't entirely lost, Yes there is a crazy left wing surge where the lack of family, morality is destroying people all over the place. However its still held better then most places on earth - Most countries are either totalitarian like China, Russia or the mid east or are governed so badly that they are failed societies. Granted people may have there culture in some of these places still intact but for how long? Consumerism, Porn and weird left wing ideas are a universal problem and its just matter of time until it effects them.

Many Muslims in the west even support anti Islamic stuff in the west like Gender being a construct or pro LBGT stuff. It shows that the rot is universal problem and Muslims are not immune to it at all.

Another thing I believe is that Atheism has also played a big role in the downward spiral in the west - The west ended up doing well technological and materially but at a cost of its soul.

 

[xboxisdead]

And this is the real big issue I see in modern western culture. The traditional family, where children have both a mother and a father is being eradicated, and today we see this a lot. When a child is born, that child has the right to both a mother and a father.

.................

I am unsure if you are aware of this but...in Islam...Allah's law....if a man commit zina (fornication, sex outside of marriage) and the zaniyah (the female fornicator, outside of marriage) she gets pregnant...that child is 100% the PROPERTY of the mother. The child inherit from the mother 100% alone. The child have the mother's last name alone and the mother have 100% full right to deny the man from seeing the child, raise the child or have any communication with that child....
In additional to the mother having 100% right to that child....the man is not obliged to pay a single dime to that child. if he refused...it is 100% his right and if anyone attempt to force the money out of him against his will..you guys are committing oppression to that man and STEALING FROM HIM ...simple as fact. You cannot force him. If he wants willingly however that is up to him..but he have no obligation, duty to do it and he will not be punished for that in the afterlife...his punishment is of course committing the Zina part and so is her punishment as well.

One of the biggest cause of destruction of family in the West is the idea that he is the father of that child outside of marriage and the laws in the West will force him to pay child support and if he refuses he goes to prison, he will labeled a deadbeat dad and he is considered worse than a child molester. He will not find jobs, people will throw rocks at him and we should hang him by the neck. Western world is a world of oppression and hate and I don't see what part of culture in the West you guys really want to protect.

Actually...now I think about it.....WHAT IS THE WESTERN culture that anyone here is talking about that we are all cowering in fear that it is getting wiped? Is it in the old times that people did not shower for a complete year? Is it the wild west of shooting people? Is it back then women where considered witches and they where burned in a stick, culture? I recalled back then in the Western world back in the olden days...girls where not allowed to act and sing...and bare in mind in Islam that holds true as well...however...what Western world did back then which goes against Islam..is have little boys dress as little girls and act and sing and do homosexual act in name of acting....is that the part we wish to save?

I am not finding a real culture in the Western world....can someone help me? All I am finding is the Western culture (world) in movies is that it is a breeding ground for feminist, women leb, homosexuality, lesbianism and modern West. In fact...the very modern Western world that I see everyone here is bashing is the children of classical and original Western culture that you guys are fighting to protect. Bring back that world only to breed the modern Western world all over again. The very core of Western world is invalid...so you are protecting and wanting to bring back invalid.

So excuse me if I go ahead and do this......

:heated::heated::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

 

[سيف الله]

Salaam

I asked about modern Western culture, not traditional Western culture. I love traditional Western culture but I hate modern Western culture. Western culture started to decay around 1920 and became more bad than good around 2005. By now it is pure evil and is incapable of producing anything good.

Peter Hitchens makes a similar point.

Blurb

Writer Peter Hitchens makes claims in his new book 'The Abolition of Britain' as long-lasting marriage and solid education come rare these days. He debates whether or not Britain has lost its greatness with historian Dan Snow.

From an American perspective

Blurb

Thomas Sowell has studied and taught economics, intellectual history, and social policy at institutions that include Cornell University, UCLA, and Amherst College. Now a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution, Sowell has published more than a dozen books, the latest of which is Dismantling America.

In introducing his new book, Sowell asserts that the Obama administration "is the embodiment, the personification, and the culmination of dangerous trends that began decades ago," trends that are "dismantling America." Sowell sees this in the dismantling of marriage, of culture, and of self-government.

Though some would argue that the rot set in far earlier. The Reformation being the starting point of modernity.

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you all,

Should we be complaining about the things we cannot change? Or should we strive to change the things we can?

How can I make a difference?

Blessings
Eric

 

[fschmidt]

Should we be complaining about the things we cannot change? Or should we strive to change the things we can?

How can I make a difference?

We should strive for change by supporting a good religion. Islam and traditional Anabaptism are good religions. Judaism and modern Christianity are bad religions.

 

[muslim brother]

all cultures have aspects we may like or dislike.

believing in islam should not make one a hater of anything but islam.

this is the well worn path by many who end up on the news .

talking specifically of cultures,i dislike much of asian culture and appreciate much of "western culture"

hate is a word not be used too often and readily.

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you fschmidt;

We should strive for change by supporting a good religion. Islam and traditional Anabaptism are good religions.

Joining a good religion is a start, but we should do more in society than attend religious services.

Judaism and modern Christianity are bad religions.

Ok, I am a member of a bad religion in your opinion, but I actively do things to help the homeless, I help people with addiction problems. We are part of a group that opened up a basics food bank in our area, we have opened up two homeless shelters and much more in recent years.

We need to do more than make judgements about other groups of people, we have to do something to make a difference.

Blessings
Eric

 

[fschmidt]

We need to do more than make judgements about other groups of people, we have to do something to make a difference.

Western society is like Sodom and Gomorrah or like other such cultures mentioned in the Quran. This society is evil and God will wipe it out. Decent people have no business involving themselves in this society in any way, including helping them.

I want to make a difference by finding a way strengthen Islam. I believe that Islam is a good religion, but that the way Muslims organize themselves is bad. Conservative Mennonites have a found an excellent way to organize themselves and I am working to promote this in Islam. Last Sunday I drove to a new Mennonite church that is 2 hours away by car to see if it works an example. But I don't think it does, so the closest good church is about 5 hours away. Now I will push members of my mosque to join me in visiting that church so that they can understand what is possible with the right organization.

 

[Futuwwa]

Every culture is an incoherent grab bag of countless influences of varying strength, often contradicting and competing against each other. Thus, I can't bring myself to hate Western culture, or any other culture. Somehow I think that if you do, you are taking particular features of it and blowing them out of proportion, as if they were the sum total of or defining features of it.

 

[DanEdge]

...I want to make a difference by finding a way strengthen Islam...

While we clearly differ in our perceptions on this issue, I think it admirable that you are considering these things thoughtfully and with passion. As long as you pursue these endeavors with a kind heart and an open mind, I'm sure that you will make a difference.

Sincerely,

Dan

 

[سيف الله]

Salaam

Fschmidt this (right) perspective might interest you.

Return of Pagan Europe

Blurb

As Europe turns away from Christianity, it's returning to pagan morality that's antithetical to individual liberty. The cultural consequences of this downward spiral are addressed in this video.

Theres good aspects to modernity but I agree with you Fschmidt there are many MANY bad aspects and I can perfectly understand your distaste and dislike.

For instance one consequence.

Embedded Tweet

Didn't realise Daniel was so opposed to modernity..

Embedded Tweet

 

[CarefulThinker]

One thing I have been noticing more in Western Society today is that a woman can just name any man as the father of the child, just to get the child support and before you know it that man has to pay money for a child that is not his (I have notice this more in the USA, not sure about other countries). And if the man who is proven to not be the father, does not pay up, can risk going to jail. Nothing happens to the woman who made the false declaration, but the man is then put into a position to either face jail or pay child support for a child not even his.

Traditional family structure is being eradicated, and so are the moral foundations, and thing is, it is spreading. Not long ago I read up on this "Theybies" concept, where parents allow their children to choose their own gender? Is this for real?

Other day I read a article on how a teenage mum got 40 years in prison, for leaving her kids in a car on hot very hot day (in which the kids died from what I understand), just so this mum can go out partying. What is going on here?

What is going on in the world today? It just feels as if all forms of reasoning and logic is being eradicated right before our eyes.

Makes me wonder if the fall of the Roman Empire was due to having a society comparable to that of modern day western civilization.

 

[fschmidt]

Makes me wonder if the fall of the Roman Empire was due to having a society comparable to that of modern day western civilization.

Of course.

If you are honestly uxorious, and devoted to one woman, then bow your head and submit your neck to the yoke. Never will you find a woman who spares the man who loves her; for though she be herself aflame, she delights to torment and plunder him. So the better the man, the more desirable he be as a husband, the less good will he get out of his wife. No present will you ever make if your wife forbids; nothing will you ever sell if she objects; nothing will you buy without her consent. ... Thus does she lord it over her husband. But before long she vacates her kingdom; she flits from one home to another, wearing out her bridal veil; then back she flies again and returns to her own imprints in the bed that she has abandoned, leaving behind her the newly decorated door, the festal hangings on the walls, and the garlands still green over the threshold.

And from the Byzantine east.

The ladies of the court at this time were nearly all of abandoned morals. They ran no risk in being faithless to their husbands, as the sin brought no penalty: even if caught in the act, they were unpunished, for all they had to do was to go to the Empress, claim the charge was not proven, and start a countersuit against their husbands. The latter, defeated without a trial, had to pay a fine of twice the dower, and were usually whipped and sent to prison; and the next time they saw their adulterous wives again, the ladies would be daintily entertaining their lovers more openly than ever. Indeed, many of the latter gained promotion and pay for their amorous services. After one such experience, most men who suffered these outrages from their wives preferred thereafter to be complaisant instead of being whipped, and gave them every liberty rather than seem to be spying on their affairs.

 

[Abz2000]

Humble me thinks that technology should be kept as a separate category in this instance since this is common global human economic and material development which relies on input from people of all walks of life -everywhere, and ceases to be much of a factor when one considers the land mass and populations which were occupied, looted, and taxed via sea pirates and land mercenaries who went on to form franchise type companies under aristocrats who simply paid taxes to the backer government and auctioned off their "acquired" goods to the government and public alike.
A financial head-start with investment volume capability which is then used as a global tribute generation source via usury ensures high financial dividends for a while - but usually at the cost of global good will, family harmony, the ability to judge the difference between justice and injustice since a blind eye is required to attempt to rationalize such unjustifiable suffering and bloodshed for financial increase.

One of the things i like about western culture though is the ability of people to take criticism and sit quietly through a sensitive argument until their turn - this helps them in learning with an open mind and being more receptive to the truth since all arguments -whether profound or weird - must be evaluated based on merits - the downside is that you get all sorts of weirdos with all sorts of crazy ideas, flourscent hair colours, body piercings, spiky white hoods, opinions, and methods, and that the most powerful people usually push their ideas to the top and then start drawing weird pentagrams and inverted hexagrams and doing voodoo and astrology and star gazing and calling on spirits for stolen information and stamping their one eyed seals on official documents ..... but that too is an indication of how a highly malleable risk-taking society can change for better or worse.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=R0544cX5tmM

 

[fschmidt]

One of the things i like about western culture though is the ability of people to take criticism and sit quietly through a sensitive argument until their turn - this helps them in learning with an open mind and being more receptive to the truth since all arguments -whether profound or weird - must be evaluated based on merits

Where do you live? Americans will sit quietly and smile while you say anything, and then will gossip and stab you in the back. They don't listen and they aren't tolerant, but they do have fake politeness. As much as I complain about the lack of free speech on this forum, at least I am not banned here. I am banned on every single forum of modern culture where I ever posted, easily over 100 forums. One of the reasons that I go to mosque is because that is the only public place that I know of where I can speak freely and people will actually listen to what I say.

 

[Abz2000]

More than half my life at the setting of sun and almost half at its rising.

 

[DanEdge]

One thing I have been noticing more in Western Society today is that a woman can just name any man as the father of the child, just to get the child support and before you know it that man has to pay money for a child that is not his...

Point of clarification: custody laws vary by state, but no state in the US has laws anything like the above. At least, not for 25 years or so. Since the advent of DNA testing, every man has the option of requesting a DNA confirmation that he is the father of any out-of-wedlock child that a woman claims is his. If the woman refuses to allow the DNA test, the man has no legal responsibility to care for the mother or child. A man also has the option to forgoe the DNA test and accept responsibility. If he chooses neither option, eg, doesn't know about the child until after birth, and then the woman requests financial support, he is offered these options again.

However, USA custody laws still heavily favor the mother. Our common law custom (for the past 125 years or so) is that the mother is the primary care-giver for the child, and therefore ought to have default legal custody rights. The father tends to be the primary money-earner, so he is usually responsible for providing financially for the child. If a mother and father serparate, in theory they both have equal opportunity to argue in court for legal custody of any children -- but in reality, custody is much more likely to go to the mother unless there is a good reason for this not to take place (mental health issues, for example).

--Dan Edge

- - - Updated - - -

Where do you live? Americans will sit quietly and smile while you say anything, and then will gossip and stab you in the back. They don't listen and they aren't tolerant, but they do have fake politeness...

Where do you live? The US contains over 300 million people, spanning about 3.8 million miles, containing thouands of cultures with deep roots. Aristocratic Southerners may often behave as you describe, but a Jeresy Bridge and Tunnel guy won't let you get a word out and still judge you harshly, Atlanta Blacks will argue loudly while cursing and laugh heartily without any judgement, Prarie-bred Iowans will always speak politely and consider your words carefully, 2nd generation Mexicans will listen to anything you say without judgement and never tell anyone outside his family, etc. And of course, individuals within these groups vary widely. And that's just the US, not to mention the rest of the Western world. How can one judge a billion people collectively? Same goes for Muslems. There are over a billion all of them all over the world, each with his own unique perspective. This is something I have to remind myself all the time, arrogant and judgmental as I can be.

--Dan Edge