Women in Islam - Oppressed or Liberated?

And We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth, confirming that which preceded it of the Scripture and as a criterion over it.
So judge between them by what Allah has revealed and do not follow their inclinations away from what has come to you of the truth.
To each of you We prescribed a law and a method. Had Allah willed, He would have made you one nation [united in religion],
but [He intended] to test you in what He has given you; so race to [all that is] good.
To Allah is your return all together, and He will [then] inform you concerning that over which you used to differ.
And judge, [O Muhammad], between them by what Allah has revealed and do not follow their inclinations and beware of them,
lest they tempt you away from some of what Allah has revealed to you.
And if they turn away - then know that Allah only intends to afflict them with some of their [own] sins.
And indeed, many among the people are defiantly disobedient.
Then is it the judgement of [the time of] ignorance they desire? But who is better than Allah in judgement for a people who are certain [in faith].
Al Ma'idah 48-50
 
And @ when the angels said, "O Maryam, indeed Allah has chosen you and purified you and chosen you above the women of the worlds. O Maryam, be devoutly obedient to your Lord and prostrate and bow with those who bow [in prayer]." [B]Ali 'Imran 42-43 [/B][/SIZE][COLOR=#000000][SIZE=3] And Allah presents an example of those who believed: the wife of Pharaoh, when she said, "My Lord, build for me near You a house in Paradise and save me from Pharaoh and his deeds and save me from the wrongdoing people." And [the example of] Maryam, the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity, so We blew into [her garment] through Our angel, and she believed in the words of her Lord and His scriptures and was of the devoutly obedient. [/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT][B][COLOR=#000000][FONT=verdana][SIZE=3][B][FONT=arial]At Tahrim 11-12[/FONT] [/B][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [MEDIA=youtube]ZgJuK0OtRf8[/MEDIA] [MEDIA=youtube]f0gkYZpYstc[/MEDIA];
 
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Narrated Anas [may Allah be pleased with him]: that the Prophet (ﷺ) said:
"Sufficient for you among the women of the worlds are Mariam bint 'Imran, and Khadijah bint Khuwailid, and Fatimah bint Muhammad, and Asiyah the wife of Fir'awn." Jami'at Tirmidhi

Narrated Abu Musa Al-Ash`ari: Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said,
"Many amongst men attained perfection but amongst women none attained the perfection except Maryam, the daughter of `Imran and Asiya, the wife of Pharaoh.
And the superiority of `Aisha to other women is like the superiority of Tharid to other meals." Sahih al Bukhari

Narrated `Aisha: I never felt so jealous of any wife of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) as I did of Khadija
because Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) used to remember and praise her too often
and because it was revealed to Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) that he should give her (Khadija) the glad tidings of her having a palace of Qasab in Paradise Sahih al Bukhari

Narrated `Aisha, Mother of the mu'min:
We, the wives of the Prophet (ﷺ) were all sitting with the Prophet (ﷺ) and none of us had left when Fatima came walking, and by Allah, her gait was very similar to that of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) .'
When he saw her, he welcomed her, saying, "Welcome, O my daughter!" Then he made her sit on his right or his left, confided something to her, whereupon she wept bitterly.
When he noticed her sorrow, he confided something else to her for the second time, and she started laughing.
Only I from among the Prophet's wives said to her, "(O Fatima), Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) selected you from among us for the secret talk and still you weep?"
When Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) got up (and went away), I asked her, "What did he confide to you?"
She said, "I wouldn't disclose the secrets of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)"
But when he died, I asked her, "I beseech you earnestly by what right I have on you, to tell me (that secret talk which the Prophet had with you)"
She said, "As you ask me now, yes, (I will tell you)."
She informed me, saying, "When he talked to me secretly the first time, he said that Jibreel used to review the Qur'an with him once every year.
Then he added, 'But this year he reviewed it with me twice, and therefore I think that my time of death has approached.
So, be afraid of Allah, and be patient, for I am the best predecessor for you (in the Hereafter).' "
Fatima added, "So I wept as you (`Aisha) witnessed. And when the Prophet (ﷺ) saw me in this sorrowful state, he confided the second secret to me saying,
'O Fatima! Will you not be pleased that you will be chief of all the mu'min women, or chief of the women of this ummah?" Sahih al Bukhari
 
If you can find me one woman right now that is 1% of Fatima, not only will I marry her...BUT I WILL PUT HER ON MY BACK and not the other way around....she would not hear one bad word from me, I will devote the rest of my life to fix myself alone and climb mountain and back to treat her the same way as the prophet (peace be upon him) treated his wives. Can I say that what I said here is IMPOSSIBLE now for most men? This is THE MOST CHALLENGING THING ANY PERSON can do now...to fix himself...to look at faults of himself...to mimic the way of the prophet, nowadays. Let us face it...the fitna and challenges we face today make it unbearably difficult...but if there is one more that is 1% like Fatima....just one 1% I would make it my mission that she will not even hear me say OOFF. What I hear now that majority of the Muslim women in Muslim countries actually can hardly wait to leave the fold of Islam when they try to come to Western world. Talk of feminist language in their tongues ---. What I am asking now....is indeed...the impossible.
 
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Greetings and peace be with you xboxisdead;
If you can find me one woman right now that is 1% of Fatima,
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You are setting yourself an impossible task. Because that one woman would say, find me one man right now that is even 1% of the prophet pbuh.

In the spirit of praying for justice for all people,

Eric
 
Eric H said:
Greetings and peace be with you xboxisdead;


You are setting yourself an impossible task. Because that one woman would say, find me one man right now that is even 1% of the prophet pbuh.

In the spirit of praying for justice for all people,

Eric
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I was just about to say that
 
xboxisdead said:
If you can find me one woman right now that is 1% of Fatima, not only will I marry her...BUT I WILL PUT HER ON MY BACK and not the other way around....she would not hear one bad word from me, I will devote the rest of my life to fix myself alone and climb mountain and back to treat her the same way as the prophet (peace be upon him) treated his wives. Can I say that what I said here is IMPOSSIBLE now for most men? This is THE MOST CHALLENGING THING ANY PERSON can do now...to fix himself...to look at faults of himself...to mimic the way of the prophet, nowadays. Let us face it...the fitna and challenges we face today make it unbearably difficult...but if there is one more that is 1% like Fatima....just one 1% I would make it my mission that she will not even hear me say OOFF. What I hear now that majority of the Muslim women in Muslim countries actually can hardly wait to leave the fold of Islam when they try to come to Western world. Talk of feminist language in their tongues ---. What I am asking now....is indeed...the impossible.
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Its challenging for men and women to both find a spouse. But you can still find someone good if you really try.

You can't have that attitude where if she was this amazing spouse then
she would not hear one bad word from me,
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.

Even if you don't have a perfect spouse, our job is to take example off of Muhammad pbuh and be respectful so that we can earn it back. The wives of the prophet pbuh used to argue with him and they (Muhammad pbuh and his wives) were Muslims that non of us could be. So in this time, all of us aren't on their level and we both have more extreme flaws. So we should still both not expect too much from each other but still try our best to respect each other

With an attitude of respecting and being very kind to someone only if you get it first, it can make you bound to fail.
 
Islami.mu'min said:
Its challenging for men and women to both find a spouse. But you can still find someone good if you really try.

You can't have that attitude where if she was this amazing spouse then .

Even if you don't have a perfect spouse, our job is to take example off of Muhammad pbuh and be respectful so that we can earn it back. The wives of the prophet pbuh used to argue with him and they (Muhammad pbuh and his wives) were Muslims that non of us could be. So in this time, all of us aren't on their level and we both have more extreme flaws. So we should still both not expect too much from each other but still try our best to respect each other

With an attitude of respecting and being very kind to someone only if you get it first, it can make you bound to fail.
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The problem with that statement is that in the opposite side she may not be in the same level as you, and she believe because she is a FEMALE she is expected and demand that she is respected and treated like a queen. Thus, it is a formula for disaster! Because with such attitude that person expects to receive and never return back. They feel they are the Queeeeeeeen of the world and that is her RIGHT AS A FEMALE. Such arrogant thinking, such hotly attitude, such I am superior over you mentality ...truly....causes me to vomit is...off putting. There is a real reason why I do not want to marry a real queen. Arrogance. "I am seriously better than you!" "I come from a rich family, you cannot even compete with that!" "I am smart, beautiful, strong, independent, come from rich family, I am better than you" all of that...just...make me look at her...as a walking...vomit that smells like one. I cannot stand to even come close one atom of that person. That comes with the same attitude of, "I expect respect because I am a female and a wife". Unfortunately, such group....are the main majority out there. For me....I need an incentive...I need that...golden shining apple on top of that tree to work hard to climb it. While it may look same....the intention and the attitude are different. I do not find arrogance if I get respected....I find that if I am treated with kindness, respect...I will climb mountain and back to make sure that person is happy. If a woman want to be the boss of the house....here is what you need to do: 1) Treat me with kindness, 2) treat with me respect, 3) feed me. Done. You got yourself a slave. That is it. It doesn't take much. Don't nag me. Don't belittle me. Don't make a fool out of me. Don't mentally abuse me. Don't physically abuse me. Don't test my intelligence every time. Don't emasculate me. You do these...you got a slave on your hand. I will spend the rest of my life to figure out what to make you happy. Women on the other-hand with the attitude of I need to be respected first...morph...into this repulsive beast...with mutant hands and eight eyes and smell like decomposed flesh....as that is the energy that comes out of them. Arrogance! All mouth! Hotness! Attitude: That because I am a female then I am all that then she flicks her finger and shakes her head. She spends every day of her miserable live to make a fool out of that man. She literally devote the rest of her life to destroy him from the inside out. With what you said, I am not sure where to find such partner.....who right away gives love and treat her me with kindness and respect knowing that I'll return it back to her (without arrogance from her side).

What you guys don't realize what I am asking is suppose to be normal human behavior. This is where the new civilization are headed that the expectation of treating each other as civilized people that was once a normal thing, is now a commodity that can be bartended and traded with a price tag on top. You guys with your reply starting from ERIC have ever proved me right!
 
The problem with that statement is that in the opposite side she may not be in the same level as you, and she believe because she is a FEMALE she is expected and demand that she is respected and treated like a queen.
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I think you're taking it to the extreme. The reason why I said "With an attitude of respecting and being very kind to someone only if you get it first, it can make you bound to fail" is because sometimes people eventually realize that you genuinely care so they will do the same back. I used to have a bad relationship with some family members, but after becoming religious i had the "change myself first" mentality. Instead of thinking about how I would be better to them if THEY tried FIRST. I did it first and it made a big difference. Even with my siblings whom I love, sometimes they make me really mad. I just overlook it and the next two times it happens, then maybe I'll get annoyed by them and call them out

Partners both need to feel respected by each other. I'm just saying that if you play the "you respect me first and I will do it back" game, its gonna cause problems. Because both the man and woman could be thinking that the other partner is being arrogant by not being respectful. This could eventually build up and get worse. Haven't you heard the quote that "respect isn't given, it is earned". If someone senses that you have that type of "respect me first" mentality, it'll sound arrogant and you will only push the person away.

Such arrogant thinking, such hotly attitude, such I am superior over you mentality
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Now all the things about this, abuse, etc. that you were explaining. I mean yes, if someone is abusing you severely like that, going out of your way for them isn't ideal for you which I understand (but sometimes the person could be abusing you because of what you have done to them. So then you would have to change yourself) . If you have tried all options to solve the problem then the person isn't right for you. But everything you were saying, there was a lot of abuse.. These cases aren't the majority. If you go to find a spouse, I'm pretty sure an average good Muslim lady wouldn't act like that. There are plenty of good ladies I have seen. These good ladies DO want respect from their husbands. And there isn't anything wrong with that. They just want respect from their husbands as they would give their husbands respect. Because they love each other. Not because one is female or one is male.

.I need that...golden shining apple on top of that tree to work hard to climb it
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If that is what you really want and it works out for you, that's your preference and that is good if you find someone. But you should know that there will be times where this shining apple won't respect you sometimes even after you worked hard to climb that tree. Because will be problems in relationships sometimes even if the people are very devout towards treating each other kindly. So what would happen then? Would you automatically forget about climbing the tree and disrespect your wife back?

And vice versa, there will be times where you might disrespect this shining apple when you have your own problems.
How would you feel if she disrespected you back and started arguing. Wouldn't you want her to overlook your mistakes instead so you guys could peacefully compromise?

Both partners need to try, sometimes they wont always get the respect they deserve, but for the most part it should be ok if they both try.

And for the whole arrogance thing, it is really being taken to the extreme. Some people are jerks, it's like that on both sides, where ever you go. There are plenty of good Muslims in the West that you can find
 
Islami.mu'min said:
I think you're taking it to the extreme. The reason why I said "With an attitude of respecting and being very kind to someone only if you get it first, it can make you bound to fail" is because sometimes people eventually realize that you genuinely care so they will do the same back. I used to have a bad relationship with some family members, but after becoming religious i had the "change myself first" mentality. Instead of thinking about how I would be better to them if THEY tried FIRST. I did it first and it made a big difference. Even with my siblings whom I love, sometimes they make me really mad. I just overlook it and the next two times it happens, then maybe I'll get annoyed by them and call them out

Partners both need to feel respected by each other. I'm just saying that if you play the "you respect me first and I will do it back" game, its gonna cause problems. Because both the man and woman could be thinking that the other partner is being arrogant by not being respectful. This could eventually build up and get worse. Haven't you heard the quote that "respect isn't given, it is earned". If someone senses that you have that type of "respect me first" mentality, it'll sound arrogant and you will only push the person away.


Now all the things about this, abuse, etc. that you were explaining. I mean yes, if someone is abusing you severely like that, going out of your way for them isn't ideal for you which I understand (but sometimes the person could be abusing you because of what you have done to them. So then you would have to change yourself) . If you have tried all options to solve the problem then the person isn't right for you. But everything you were saying, there was a lot of abuse.. These cases aren't the majority. If you go to find a spouse, I'm pretty sure an average good Muslim lady wouldn't act like that. There are plenty of good ladies I have seen. These good ladies DO want respect from their husbands. And there isn't anything wrong with that. They just want respect from their husbands as they would give their husbands respect. Because they love each other. Not because one is female or one is male.



If that is what you really want and it works out for you, that's your preference and that is good if you find someone. But you should know that there will be times where this shining apple won't respect you sometimes even after you worked hard to climb that tree. Because will be problems in relationships sometimes even if the people are very devout towards treating each other kindly. So what would happen then? Would you automatically forget about climbing the tree and disrespect your wife back?

And vice versa, there will be times where you might disrespect this shining apple when you have your own problems.
How would you feel if she disrespected you back and started arguing. Wouldn't you want her to overlook your mistakes instead so you guys could peacefully compromise?

Both partners need to try, sometimes they wont always get the respect they deserve, but for the most part it should be ok if they both try.

And for the whole arrogance thing, it is really being taken to the extreme. Some people are jerks, it's like that on both sides, where ever you go. There are plenty of good Muslims in the West that you can find
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I used to think that because you are in the West it is dangerous zone and you will not find good Muslims here, because it is a non-Muslim country, or they get hypnotized by the Western way, you put reason in this box....I was wrong, big time. What I heard and saw, you will find better wives in the West than in the East. It really boils down to where your fate be to finding that partner. It could be I need to travel to China to find that one....concept of confined to location or a Muslim country I believe is false assumption to finding that one.
 
xboxisdead said:
I used to think that because you are in the West it is dangerous zone and you will not find good Muslims here, because it is a non-Muslim country, or they get hypnotized by the Western way, you put reason in this box....I was wrong, big time. What I heard and saw, you will find better wives in the West than in the East. It really boils down to where your fate be to finding that partner. It could be I need to travel to China to find that one....concept of confined to location or a Muslim country I believe is false assumption to finding that one.
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This is highly untrue. I live in the west. Haven't found one decent sister yet. The ones that sre have...race issues. No one is the west is truly righteous. Many sisters here are talking to guys on campus or selling their deen. The sisters that are really good, sre hard to spot or hidden. Not all of them are bad but finding a good sister is literally a goosehunt. Its hard without people pretending to be pious so they can fool someone into marrying them. Plus with your accusation...you need to chill. Not all women are bad but I do agree that women like those are disgusting and not worthy of marriage. But everyone is at different level and may not be as practicing as you. Simply say Alhamdullah that Allah has guided you so he keeps guiding you and pray for those astray especially the sisters who think by seeking themselves is better for them
 
I used to think that because you are in the West it is dangerous zone and you will not find good Muslims here, because it is a non-Muslim country, or they get hypnotized by the Western way, you put reason in this box....I was wrong, big time. What I heard and saw, you will find better wives in the West than in the East. It really boils down to where your fate be to finding that partner. It could be I need to travel to China to find that one....concept of confined to location or a Muslim country I believe is false assumption to finding that one.
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I'm glad your mindset changed, because it'll help you be more positive in finding someone. It isn't necessarily easy finding a Muslim in the West, but if you be patient and put some effort into it you will find at least a few good Muslims. They might be hidden, but when you end up meeting one, you'll notice something different about them.

See here is something you also need to think about. It is true the East is much more Muslim populated. Yes there are many good genuine Muslims there. But a good amount of these Muslims are conditioned to following their CULTURE. On the other hand, if you were patient and you happened to find a good Muslim in the West, it can be a lot better in a way. Why? Because these Muslims never had that type of culture that required them to follow the Muslim way (especially if they had an un-religious family). These Muslims can be stronger in a way because they went against THEIR OWN Western culture, they went against what was considered "normal", just to be true and sincere to Allah. These Muslims had to resist the bad unlike those who live in Muslim countries!

If you took a Muslim who was living in the Middle East for his whoooole life and put him somewhere in the West. He wouldn't be used to this and it would be a big fitna for him. However, if it was vice versa... A good Muslim who moved from the West to the Middle East, it would be super easy because this Muslim had already become so strong in resisting the fitna in the western society nowadays. He/she would have no problem moving to the East!


It is similar to SOME reverts too. Some Muslims actually look down upon reverts thinking that they probably aren't that good. But these reverts end up becoming amazing muslims because they gave up their past sinful life for the sake of Allah and stuck onto that path with a genuine heart. You might also notice that SOME Muslims who are born in Muslim families end up taking their religion for granted and they end up throwing it away. Or they'll only obey because they will have problems with their family or the community of Muslims! Then this isn't truly for the sake of Allah

SIDE NOTE: Notice I put "SOME" in bold.. I put it in bold because I do not want anyone to read that paragraph and generalize the reverts or Muslims coming from Muslim families because of what I said. I was only using that as an example.

The opposite of what I said can be common too - There are reverts who end up not taking their religion seriously and they end up losing their deen. And there are also many amazing Muslims who come from Muslim families.

In the end, it is as you said.. A good Muslim is not confined to a certain space and it all comes down to your fate. You just gotta keep trying and making dua with a good positive, patient, and hopeful ​mindset

May Allah grant you a devout Muslim happy spouse who may be from any part of the world
 
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Studentofdeed said:
This is highly untrue. I live in the west. Haven't found one decent sister yet. The ones that sre have...race issues. No one is the west is truly righteous. Many sisters here are talking to guys on campus or selling their deen. The sisters that are really good, sre hard to spot or hidden. Not all of them are bad but finding a good sister is literally a goosehunt. Its hard without people pretending to be pious so they can fool someone into marrying them. Plus with your accusation...you need to chill. Not all women are bad but I do agree that women like those are disgusting and not worthy of marriage. But everyone is at different level and may not be as practicing as you. Simply say Alhamdullah that Allah has guided you so he keeps guiding you and pray for those astray especially the sisters who think by seeking themselves is better for them
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It isn't easy, but you have to keep trying. I used to have that same mindset. You just got to stick to your principles and know what you want. I live in a city with mostly atheists and Christians. Some of the people here are islamaphobic. There is one mosque and the women side is empty most of the time. Only one or two women.. Sometimes zero. (except on fridays, they start to come).. Alhamdulilah I have seen a few good Muslim women, one of them especially. She is an American revert.. She came and reached out to me when my faith was low.. Her husband was a good Moroccan man that wanted to come help too but I only met up with her and he passed on information from her to me about Islam. I am very glad that I met them! MashaAllah they are young and they are both very modest and loving. They even teach an islamic class for children together. I really hope to keep staying in touch with her

I know another pakistani Woman(shes an old lady though) who couldn't even speak English but she was the only one who would always be in the masjid alongside with me. She'd clean up the bathrooms too. She was very kind. I will definitely miss her because when I first decided to go to the masjid after years of not going because I used to not be religious, I went into the prayer room. And as soon as I opened the door she came to me and gently greeted me with "assalamu alaykum" with such hospitality. That had a very severe effect on me because I hadn't expected that.

It's pretty funny because there are like rarely any Muslims in this city so when I go out to the store there are like noooo Muslims. But the moment I see one (which is rare), I get so excited. There was this one Muslim couple that used to drive by our house so often. It started getting weird and creepy cause theyd park their car and start watching us.. Turns out, they were just very happy to see another Muslim. I ended up seeing them once at the store when I would always find them in the same aisle as me so many times in one day so we gave each other salam.
This other hijabi drove by once and saw my brother and I doing yard work and he looked at her because she started driving slowly. Lol he told me she just kept looking at me with absolute shock in her face.

That was off topic but I meant to say that if you REALLY be patient and search, you will find someone. You can try making good Muslim friends and see if these men have good family members that want to marry you.

The city above us has more arabs and Muslims. I used to live there. Yeah it is true that a lot of the Muslims I have seen aren't genuine or they are very liberalized, but on campus, I have a few Muslims that come off as strong in their faith. It is definitely hard to find, but they still are there.. I have a seen few men and women who lower their gaze and I was very astonished.
 
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Yes but there is whole silly idea of culture and race. Makes it harder. Your own culture is backwards so when you try to marry outwards even they then look down on you because you aren't that race. It is an impossible journey. For nonmuslims getting married is so easy cauz they dont worry about all these nonsense
 

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