Not All Christians Believe Jesus was God

[Truthist]

I found this very interesting. The USA (where I live) is a largely Christian country, and about 30% of people who say they're Christians seem to not believe that Jesus was a part of God. To me, that's not real Christianity. (The 52% was of all the people in the US, not just the Christians.)

https://www.newsweek.com/52-percent-americans-say-jesus-isnt-god-was-great-teacher-survey-says-1528617

If the same is true of Christians in other countries, REAL Christianity may not be the largest religion.

I apologize in advance if this doesn't post properly. I'm new here and haven't thoroughly learned how to operate things.

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[TD]52 Percent of Americans Say Jesus Isn't God but Was a Great Teacher, Survey Says
A majority of Americans say Jesus was a great teacher and nothing more during his lifetime, which several Christian leaders say is evidence today's faithful are "drifting away" from traditional...[/TD]
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[Ümit]

I do not know, it is a perspective thing.

Because, which form of Christianity is real and which is false? Who gets to decide that?
From the perspective of Muslims, ALL forms of Christianity is false. There is not real ones, if you know what I mean.

But yeah, there are a group of Christians who really believe that Jesus was not a God.

 

[Truthist]

As far as I know, the main that that makes a person a Christian is believing that Jesus was and is a part of God. If someone says they are a Christian but doesn't believe that, I think they're actually a Jew, unless they believe that Muhammad received the Kuran from God; then they're Muslim. Or they don't believe even in the Bible, in which case they're a total fake.

My point about the above linked article is that maybe there are more actual Muslims than actual Christians. Muslims seem more committed to that main belief, also to one God, although there may be some Muslims who don't believe Muhammad really received the Kuran from God. I don't think you would call them real Muslims; they too would be closer to Jews.

It matters to me how many Muslims there are and whether they're the majority, because in my confusion about religions, one guide I have is the hope that God wouldn't let us be fooled, and the most-popular religion seems best on that basis.

 

[Hamza Asadullah]

As far as I know, the main that that makes a person a Christian is believing that Jesus was and is a part of God. If someone says they are a Christian but doesn't believe that, I think they're actually a Jew, unless they believe that Muhammad received the Kuran from God; then they're Muslim. Or they don't believe even in the Bible, in which case they're a total fake.

My point about the above linked article is that maybe there are more actual Muslims than actual Christians. Muslims seem more committed to that main belief, also to one God, although there may be some Muslims who don't believe Muhammad really received the Kuran from God. I don't think you would call them real Muslims; they too would be closer to Jews.

It matters to me how many Muslims there are and whether they're the majority, because in my confusion about religions, one guide I have is the hope that God wouldn't let us be fooled, and the most-popular religion seems best on that basis.

Yes sister you are absolutely right in that the number of "Christians" that are quoted in various statistics are significantly inflated, flawed and incorrect. The statistics still count every person as "Christian" regardless of whether or not they are actually Christian by faith as most of them are actually atheist/deist/agnostic. The statistics also do not take into account the number of people that actually believe in Christianity, it's fundamentals and the Scriptures in their entirety. Surely one cannot be considered a true Christian if one does not believe in the entirety of the religion and the scriptures. For example in the UK which has now become a predominantly secular country, most people will celebrate Easter and Christmas not because of the religious belief but because such religious events have essentially become commercialised and as part of the "culture" and family get together. Many of those who do consider themselves as Christians as they were born into it, do not believe in Christianity in its entirety in terms of not believing in the Prophets and stories in the Bible and the fundamentals of the religion etc. So can they be considered "Christian"?

It is without doubt that there are more Muslims on Earth who believe in the entirety of the religion and scriptures than any other faith and religion. There are also more practicing Muslims than any other practicing person of any another faith or religion. This is very apparent during Friday prayers and throughout Ramadan and the days of Hajj. I can only speak for the UK, where the Churches here are essentially abandoned and even on Sundays there will only be a few frequenting of the elder generation. Hence why many of the Churches in this country have been sold on and those that are still open are used for other purposes. This is also the case across Europe and much of the world to a greater or lesser extent.

Also more people are reverting to Islam particularly women than any other faith or religion:

 

[CarefulThinker]

It is correct that not all Christians believe Jesus is God, and certainly not all accept the trinity.

If I recall correctly, Jehovah's Witness does not believe that Jesus is God, neither do they accept the trinity.

 

[Karl]

Someone who believes he is God is really just an extreme narcissist or cultist. Jesus would have never said he was God because even to say Gods name at the time was a death penalty. He was put to death for political reasons, mainly befriending Romans.

 

[Eric H]

Peace be with you;

about 30% of people who say they're Christians seem to not believe that Jesus was a part of God. To me, that's not real Christianity.

Christianity is a hard religion to follow, the teachings don't sit too well with modern thinking. One of the hardest teachings is to love and pray for your enemies. It would be easy for Jesus to preach this, if he had no enemies or if he had nothing to forgive. But Jesus is tortured and before he dies, he prays, forgive them Father for they know not what they do. Jesus does not say who he wants to forgive, or what he wants to forgive. He just seems to say that if anyone needs forgiving then forgive them.

Jesus has passed this onto us, love and pray for your enemies.

Today is Maundy Thursday when we commemorate the time Jesus washed the feet of his disciples, including Judas who would betray him.

Jesus said, “Do you realize what I have done for you?
You call me ‘teacher’ and ‘master,’ and rightly so, for indeed I am.
If I, therefore, the master and teacher, have washed your feet,
you ought to wash one another’s feet.
I have given you a model to follow,
so that as I have done for you, you should also do.”

May Allah bless you all as you journey through Ramadan.
Eric

 

[Karl]

Peace be with you;



Christianity is a hard religion to follow, the teachings don't sit too well with modern thinking. One of the hardest teachings is to love and pray for your enemies. It would be easy for Jesus to preach this, if he had no enemies or if he had nothing to forgive. But Jesus is tortured and before he dies, he prays, forgive them Father for they know not what they do. Jesus does not say who he wants to forgive, or what he wants to forgive. He just seems to say that if anyone needs forgiving then forgive them.

Jesus has passed this onto us, love and pray for your enemies.

Today is Maundy Thursday when we commemorate the time Jesus washed the feet of his disciples, including Judas who would betray him.

Jesus said, “Do you realize what I have done for you?
You call me ‘teacher’ and ‘master,’ and rightly so, for indeed I am.
If I, therefore, the master and teacher, have washed your feet,
you ought to wash one another’s feet.
I have given you a model to follow,
so that as I have done for you, you should also do.”

May Allah bless you all as you journey through Ramadan.
Eric

I believe Jesus saw that the perpetual feuds and wars and cycles of violence can only be stopped by love instead of hate. But no one bought that except for a few pacifists. Christians, atheists and Jews got more violent and basically rule most of the world. All the other main religions are no better. Is life evil? Or is good and evil just a social construct and does not really exist but is just a point of view? There are so many double standards that "might makes right" is the only logical conclusion. I suppose people use feelings to make judgments but these can be manipulated by propaganda.

 

[Murid]

[MENTION=20848]Karl[/MENTION] because of that you need direct religious experience of intense ibadah, best with jamah and as you start to experience wonders, you'll know which one is truth inshaAllah

Many high order priests, magicians, witches, polititians, analysts etc. know the truth, but or do not know or may not/do not practice because of the social circumstances.

We must be lawful good and be awere of aggressive communism and other religion prohibiting powers.

 

[Karl]

[MENTION=20848]Karl[/MENTION] because of that you need direct religious experience of intense ibadah, best with jamah and as you start to experience wonders, you'll know which one is truth inshaAllah

Many high order priests, magicians, witches, polititians, analysts etc. know the truth, but or do not know or may not/do not practice because of the social circumstances.

We must be lawful good and be awere of aggressive communism and other religion prohibiting powers.

Liberals are very globalist and communist in their thinking and there are so many of them. The world is in dire straits.

 

[Murid]

Yes, that is/was the new trend, but instead of communism, I think they have a great tendency to self destruct and in addition they are not that productive too.
It is interrsting to see the Chinease model of communism, how it is highely productive in contrast to the SSRR and Yugoslavia model.

We must intensify our practices, not neglecting lawful good "dunya" work and it is the best evidence and protection from every harm. We do not need too much for wonders, maybe 1-2 hours of nawafil each day and night and fardh practices are really short.

 

[Spiritlead]

I found this very interesting. The USA (where I live) is a largely Christian country, and about 30% of people who say they're Christians seem to not believe that Jesus was a part of God. To me, that's not real Christianity. (The 52% was of all the people in the US, not just the Christians.)

https://www.newsweek.com/52-percent-americans-say-jesus-isnt-god-was-great-teacher-survey-says-1528617

If the same is true of Christians in other countries, REAL Christianity may not be the largest religion.

I apologize in advance if this doesn't post properly. I'm new here and haven't thoroughly learned how to operate things.

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[TR]
[TD]52 Percent of Americans Say Jesus Isn't God but Was a Great Teacher, Survey Says
A majority of Americans say Jesus was a great teacher and nothing more during his lifetime, which several Christian leaders say is evidence today's faithful are "drifting away" from traditional...[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Im sure if Muslims across the world were surveyed as to their beliefs regarding core Muslim beliefs there would be similar results.

 

[Spiritlead]

Someone who believes he is God is really just an extreme narcissist or cultist. Jesus would have never said he was God because even to say Gods name at the time was a death penalty. He was put to death for political reasons, mainly befriending Romans.

Jesus never claimed to be God. He claimed to be God The Son. If you read the Injel you will see thats why he was executed. Also as a Muslim you seem confused as I didnt think Muslims believe He was p
"put to death " ?

 

[Spiritlead]

It is correct that not all Christians believe Jesus is God, and certainly not all accept the trinity.

If I recall correctly, Jehovah's Witness does not believe that Jesus is God, neither do they accept the trinity.

Jehovah's Witness like orthodox Christians believe Jesus is The Son of God.

 

[Spiritlead]

Yes sister you are absolutely right in that the number of "Christians" that are quoted in various statistics are significantly inflated, flawed and incorrect. The statistics still count every person as "Christian" regardless of whether or not they are actually Christian by faith as most of them are actually atheist/deist/agnostic. The statistics also do not take into account the number of people that actually believe in Christianity, it's fundamentals and the Scriptures in their entirety. Surely one cannot be considered a true Christian if one does not believe in the entirety of the religion and the scriptures. For example in the UK which has now become a predominantly secular country, most people will celebrate Easter and Christmas not because of the religious belief but because such religious events have essentially become commercialised and as part of the "culture" and family get together. Many of those who do consider themselves as Christians as they were born into it, do not believe in Christianity in its entirety in terms of not believing in the Prophets and stories in the Bible and the fundamentals of the religion etc. So can they be considered "Christian"?

It is without doubt that there are more Muslims on Earth who believe in the entirety of the religion and scriptures than any other faith and religion. There are also more practicing Muslims than any other practicing person of any another faith or religion. This is very apparent during Friday prayers and throughout Ramadan and the days of Hajj. I can only speak for the UK, where the Churches here are essentially abandoned and even on Sundays there will only be a few frequenting of the elder generation. Hence why many of the Churches in this country have been sold on and those that are still open are used for other purposes. This is also the case across Europe and much of the world to a greater or lesser extent.

Also more people are reverting to Islam particularly women than any other faith or religion:

The number of "Muslims" that are quoted in various statistics are significantly inflated, flawed and incorrect. The statistics still count every person as "Muslim" regardless of whether or not they are actually Christian by faith as most of them are actually atheist/deist/agnostic. The statistics also do not take into account the number of people that actually believe in Islam, it's fundamentals and the Scriptures in their entirety. Surely one cannot be considered a true Muslim if one does not believe in the entirety of the religion and the scriptures. Many of those who do consider themselves as Muslims as they were born into it, do not believe in Islam in its entirety the Quran and the fundamentals of the religion etc. So can they be considered "Muslim"?
Please prove your comment “ it is without doubt that there are more Muslims on Earth who believe in the entirety of the religion and scriptures than any other faith and religion. “ where is your evidence ? You are wrong to say There are also more practicing Muslims than any other practicing person of any another faith or religion. Christianity = 2.4 billion people and Islam 1.9 billion people.

Christianity in the West has changed since the 1960s. A revival has occurred where traditional church numbers have lessened but Christianity has become more real and authentic for others.

If you want to criticise Christianity’s decline in the West, it is the failings of the Muslim world you need to discuss. Islam is failing the Muslim world. Look at the millions of Muslims falling over them selves trying to migrate to the stable and prosperous Christian / secular West.
Christianity is growing around the world, particularly in Africa and Asia. For example, China, a Pew study put the number of Christians at 67 million in 2010 - a huge increase from the one million or so when Communist rule was established in 1949.
Within the Muslim world more Muslims are converting to Christianity than any other time in the world.

 

[Karl]

Jesus never claimed to be God. He claimed to be God The Son. If you read the Injel you will see thats why he was executed. Also as a Muslim you seem confused as I didnt think Muslims believe He was p
"put to death " ?

Well it pleases Christians. If Jesus is the son of God then he would be a god and immortal or at least a demi god and become a god when he died like Hercules. Of course Hercules was nothing like Jesus.

 

[Karl]

Yes, that is/was the new trend, but instead of communism, I think they have a great tendency to self destruct and in addition they are not that productive too.
It is interrsting to see the Chinease model of communism, how it is highely productive in contrast to the SSRR and Yugoslavia model.

We must intensify our practices, not neglecting lawful good "dunya" work and it is the best evidence and protection from every harm. We do not need too much for wonders, maybe 1-2 hours of nawafil each day and night and fardh practices are really short.

Yeah the PRC Peoples Republic of China is not communist at all now in reality. It is a one party capitalist state and they are buying up everything and selling everything globally. And religion is on the rise there too. Communists I mean the Marxist form kill religious people.

 

[Spiritlead]

Well it pleases Christians. If Jesus is the son of God then he would be a god and immortal or at least a demi god and become a god when he died like Hercules. Of course Hercules was nothing like Jesus.

Indeed Jesus Christ The Messiah is nothing like Hercules. Jesus was God The Son made flesh. Meaning God showed his mercy, grace and humility to lower himself to us to come as a man and as a result make himself known to us, make his power available to mankind and in this set an example to us in that if we should be lowered we will also be raised.

 

[Hamza Asadullah]

The number of "Muslims" that are quoted in various statistics are significantly inflated, flawed and incorrect. The statistics still count every person as "Muslim" regardless of whether or not they are actually Christian by faith as most of them are actually atheist/deist/agnostic. The statistics also do not take into account the number of people that actually believe in Islam, it's fundamentals and the Scriptures in their entirety. Surely one cannot be considered a true Muslim if one does not believe in the entirety of the religion and the scriptures. Many of those who do consider themselves as Muslims as they were born into it, do not believe in Islam in its entirety the Quran and the fundamentals of the religion etc. So can they be considered "Muslim"?

No they cannot be. Unlike many Christians who are overly lenient towards towards those who call themselves "Christian" even though they disagree with many or most of its fundamental concepts, then the same does not hold true for Islam. In Islam we do not compromise nor change our beliefs for the "turning of the tide". Regardless of whether people accept it or not. The same is not the case for the church for which reason so many people have become disillusioned with it and are either turning towards agnosticism/atheism or Islam.

Please prove your comment “ it is without doubt that there are more Muslims on Earth who believe in the entirety of the religion and scriptures than any other faith and religion. “ where is your evidence ? You are wrong to say There are also more practicing Muslims than any other practicing person of any another faith or religion. Christianity = 2.4 billion people and Islam 1.9 billion people.

The "proof is in the pudding". It is a common known fact especially here in Europe that most people who consider themselves as born into Christianity through parents who were Christian do not practice it nor ever attend the Church nor do they even believe in many of the fundamental concepts of Christianity. So they cannot be considered "Christian" as most of them are atheist/agnostic/deist.

Christianity in the West has changed since the 1960s. A revival has occurred where traditional church numbers have lessened but Christianity has become more real and authentic for others.

A very good way of trying to "lessen the blow". Fortunately most people including Christians themselves will not be in denial as you are and admit that Christianity is declining rapidly in the west and the Churches are essentially abandoned and even sold off or used for other purposes just to stay afloat. People just do not attend Churches anymore especially the newer generations. Hence why communal worship on Sundays are mostly made up of merely a few of the older generation.

If you want to criticise Christianity’s decline in the West, it is the failings of the Muslim world you need to discuss. Islam is failing the Muslim world. Look at the millions of Muslims falling over them selves trying to migrate to the stable and prosperous Christian / secular West.

The point was not to "criticise" the decline as you falsely put it, it is just to state the facts. Surely you cannot be in such denial?

Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace in Europe, US and the West in general

https://www.pewresearch.org/religio...line-of-christianity-continues-at-rapid-pace/

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/2...line-in-the-west-and-america-is-no-exception/

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/29/opinion/american-christianity.html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...christian-europe-young-people-survey-religion

https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2020/02/the-future-of-christianity-in-europe

https://europeanacademyofreligionan...rd-for-religion-creates-unnecessary-conflict/

However the rapid decline of the church in the western countries has made way to increasingly "secularist values" we are faced with today which is causing ever more immorality in society.

Also you say "Islam" has failed Muslim countries that's why they are falling over themselves to come to the west. You have just exposed your utterly bigoted and backward views. Who attacked Iraq several times and the last time being proven to be based on lies? the US and UK and its allies - "Christian" countries. Who attacked Afghanistan several times over the last few decades killing millions and causing immeasurable suffering to so many people today? - Christian countries. Who attacked Libya and totally destroyed and de-stabilised it killing 100's of 1000's? There are so many more examples. If those countries were not destroyed and destabilised then why would people flock to "prosperous" western nations? Stop destroying those countries and the refugees will stop flocking those countries. They are merely victims of the aggression of western "Christian" nations in accordance with their agenda's in those countries.

So it is "Christian" countries have killed Millions of innocent people and have totally destroyed and destabilised their economies and infrastructure yet you have the audacity to make such an awful bigoted remark? You are a terrible example for Christians. So many true Christians stand up for truth and justice with the people of those countries. So you really need to go and reflect on yourself and stop being so narrow minded, arrogant and bigoted.

Christianity is growing around the world, particularly in Africa and Asia. For example, China, a Pew study put the number of Christians at 67 million in 2010 - a huge increase from the one million or so when Communist rule was established in 1949.

As was Islam until the brutal crackdown of Muslim growth in China. So is Christianity next in line for "re-education camps"?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ewelin...tians-in-china-next-in-line-for-re-education/

Within the Muslim world more Muslims are converting to Christianity than any other time in the world.

According to Pew:

"While the share of American Muslim adults who are converts to Islam also is about one-quarter (23%), a much smaller share of current Christians (6%) are converts. In other words, Christianity as a whole loses more people than it gains from religious switching (conversions in both directions) in the U.S."

There is no comparison. Far more people are converting to Islam from Christianity than the other way around. You can be in denial however much you like but the facts speak for themselves. It is also very apparent all around Europe and the US and the number of reverts to Islam particularly women are increasing rapidly Alhamdulillah (All praise be to Allah).

 

[Hamza Asadullah]

Jesus never claimed to be God. He claimed to be God The Son.

He wasn't the only one referred to as "son" in the bible though was he:

Jacob is God's son and firstborn: "Israel is my son, even my firstborn" Exodus 4:22.
Solomon is God's son "He shall build an house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom for ever. I will be his father, and he shall be my son": 2 Samuel 7:13-14.
Ephraim is God's firstborn: "for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn" Jeremiah 31:9 (who is God's firstborn? Israel or Ephraim?).
Adam is the son of God "Adam, which was the son of God" Luke 3:38.
Common people (you and me) are the sons of God:
"Ye are the children of the LORD your God" Deuteronomy 14:1.
"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God" Romans 8:14.
"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name" John 1:12.
"That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" Philippians 2:15.
"Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: ... now are we the sons of God" 1 John 3:1-2.
"When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" Job 38:7.
"Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD," Job 2:1.
"Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD," Job 1:6.
"when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men," Genesis 6:4.
"That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they [were] fair" Genesis 6:2

As we can see, the use of the term "son of God" when describing normal human beings was not at all an uncommon practice among Jesus' people.