Was Islam spread by SWORD?

[Mohsin]

Re: What do they believe?

What happened is accepted fact, I'm surprised you didn't know.
Internet is a starting point, use every resource possible from books to visiting the indian subcontinent, museums, historical sites, scripts from that time period. I'm sure it will all point toward the same conclusion

I'm not denying it happened to a certain extent with some Gurus, but generally it didn't happen. Logic will tell you. Its impossible to forrce people to convert, when your not there they'll practice what they want. And muslims have full conviction in their religion. Not all practice it but nearly all believe. No matter how non-practicing one is, they will never believe you would need to force a persoan to convert. They honestly believe its the truth

 

[jss]

Re: What do they believe?

Problem is Islam was in India long before Sikhism started. So how was it spreading then. And it kept spredaing peacefully even after Sikhism came, even today there are thousands of reverts in India.

Guys think logically, Islam spread peacefully in Saudi Arabia, accross other Arab countries, across Malaysia and Indonesia, and in the last century has continued to spread peacefully, but in India it suddenly decided to use force?? :? Also, muslims as you would now fully believe in their faith, they don't think you would need to force anyone to convert to islam. They fully believe its the truth. Guys think about it

Remember, what a few Moghal rulers did does not represent the way it spread the rest of the time

I'm not asking you to believe me, what I am stating is not to have a swipe at Islam but mere fact. You can find out for yourself if you don't believe me.
There may have been some Muslims before Guru Nanak Dev Ji's times in India without doubt. But the bulk of forced conversions began with Babar and other rulars such as Aurangzeb and many people were converted out of fear.
Again you may not trust me or the internet, fair play but do the research for yourself.

 

[ISDhillon]

Re: What do they believe?

I'm not denying it happened to a certain extent with some Gurus, but generally it didn't happen. Logic will tell you. Its impossible to forrce people to convert, when your not there they'll practice what they want. And muslims have full conviction in their religion. Not all practice it but nearly all believe. No matter how non-practicing one is, they will never believe you would need to force a persoan to convert. They honestly believe its the truth

You need to do some serious reading boy:

http://www.sikh-history.com/sikhhist/events/khalsa.html

http://www.san.beck.org/2-9-MughalEmpire1526-1707.html

http://www.answers.com/topic/islamic-conquest-of-south-asia

I hope you actually read this, and what has logic got to do with it when someones threatning you with death what decision are you gonna make, these preachers who tell you these stories are the mother of all propaganda.

I hope you see sense,

ISDhillon

 

[jsc]

Re: What do they believe?

this ones even better:
http://www.atributetohinduism.com/Islamic_Onslaught.htm

in my opinion this site has no credibility. to start with, its racist and contains inacurate infomation about Sikhs...

 

[ISDhillon]

Re: What do they believe?

in my opinion this site has no credibility. to start with, its racist and contains inacurate infomation about Sikhs...

I wonder what evidence moss has to prove islam was not spread by sword in india?

 

[jss]

Re: What do they believe?

I wonder what evidence moss has to prove islam was not spread by sword in india?

Denying that is like denying that the holocaust ever took place.
Anyways i'm off
nite nite ppl :thankyou:

 

[jsc]

Re: What do they believe?

Force conversions did take place.

even the decendents of emperor jehangir (who along side chandu (a brahmin hindu) had Guru Sahib Ji martyred) went to darbar sahib (golden temple) afew years back to ask for forgiviness. because their family had recieved nuthing but bad luck and they believed that was the reason why-they kept there islamic values but went to darbar sahib to ask forgivness. i aint got evidence of this offhand, but if anybody wants, im sure i can dis up the article somewhere.

mass forced conversions did take place. any person can find out with alittle research.

 

[ISDhillon]

Re: What do they believe?

Force conversions did take place.

even the decendents of emperor jehangir (who along side chandu (a brahmin hindu) had Guru Sahib Ji martyred) went to darbar sahib (golden temple) afew years back to ask for forgiviness. because their family had recieved nuthing but bad luck and they believed that was the reason why-they kept there islamic values but went to darbar sahib to ask forgivness. i aint got evidence of this offhand, but if anybody wants, im sure i can dis up the article somewhere.

mass forced conversions did take place. any person can find out with alittle research.

----

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2004/20040415/punjab1.htm#9

 

[jsc]

Re: What do they believe?

----

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2004/20040415/punjab1.htm#9

singh, u dont waste time do u. this aint the article i read, but itll do!

 

[Khoza]

Re: What do they believe?

Problem is Islam was in India long before Sikhism started. So how was it spreading then. And it kept spredaing peacefully even after Sikhism came, even today there are thousands of reverts in India.

Guys think logically, Islam spread peacefully in Saudi Arabia, accross other Arab countries, across Malaysia and Indonesia, and in the last century has continued to spread peacefully, but in India it suddenly decided to use force?? :? Also, muslims as you would now fully believe in their faith, they don't think you would need to force anyone to convert to islam. They fully believe its the truth. Guys think about it

Remember, what a few Moghal rulers did does not represent the way it spread the rest of the time

Islam was spread by the sword aswell since SOME moghul emperors were giving the natives the choices between death or Islam, India has a huge population and the muslim population is fairly large too the reason why more Indians weret forced to covert was because only some emperors used such policies and there was resistance being put up. There are also clear facts that show that thousands of Hindu women were taken from India and sold off as wives in Afghanistan. Therefore a FEW moghul emperors had a huge effect infact western historians believe that during the moghul rule in India upto 80 million Hindus and other non-muslims were killed.

 

[Mohsin]

Re: What do they believe?

Dhillon, you can't prove Islam was spread by the sword.

Look at Saudi arabia during the prophets time, everyone converted. At the conquest of Mecca everyone was forgiven, and gradually they all converted. No force!

Indonesia and malaysia. Lets take Indonesia as an example, FOUR muslims went to Indonesia, and the whole country converted through their actions and morals, No Force!

Today, conversions left right and centre. Just go on website and you'll find a hundred. http://thetruereligion.org/modules/xfsection/ No Force!

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparative-religion/4914-stories-muslim-reverts-post-yours-here.html This is stories of converts from people on this site. No Force!

Still 14 million christians in saudi arabia, No Force!

I hope its clear now. Like i said, i'm sure some rulers did try to do it. But it wouldn't have made a difference. islam is Haq, people would still have converted. Go india today and see how many Hindus are converting by the works of people like Dr Zakir Naik.
Before Sikhism came, people were converting. Before the Moghul rulers people were converting. After Sikhism, where it apparently stopped the forced conversions, peoople have continued to revert. Either Sikhism didn't do a good job, or its peaceful conversions, you decide ;D

I hope this is suffciecient proof islam was not spread by the sword. For more information go to here http://www.islamicboard.com/refutations/724-islam-spread-sword.html

In fear of getting warnings, we should stay on topic, so i request if mods can move this to the other thread, and if you have any more allegations against islam discuss it there

 

[Ayesha Rana]

Re: What do they believe?

post deleted

Not impressed. you don't sound funny. People cannot be forced to follow Islam if they did not believe in it from their hearts.:rollseyes You can't be a Muslim if you don't truly believe so there wouldn't have been any point in supposedly making someone into a Muslim. It just does'nt work that way.

 

[ISDhillon]

Re: What do they believe?

You siad that, so i posted revelavant proofs showing how islam was not spread by the sword. Your more illogical than i thoight if you think Islam was spread by the sword. But i suppose if thats what makes you feel better and keeps your mind at ease that Islam can't get real conversions then so be it

illogical? - the forced conversion were in india you started telling me about other countries, what does that have to do with anything, if you believe that islam was not spread by the sword in india you need to prove this to me not derail the debate by taliking about other countries thats irrelevant, do you even know what logic means, youve heard ne person go on about me being illogical and thats youre only weapon now, i suggest you get over it

isdhillon

 

[Mohsin]

Re: What do they believe?

illogical? - the forced conversion were in india you started telling me about other countries, what does that have to do with anything, if you believe that islam was not spread by the sword in india you need to prove this to me not derail the debate by taliking about other countries thats irrelevant, do you even know what logic means, youve heard ne person go on about me being illogical and thats youre only weapon now, i suggest you get over it

isdhillon

Bro listen. if islam spread peacefully everywhere else, then is it so hard to believe the same happened in the indian subcontinent. it doesn't matter, just look today. Theres loads of converts there now. Thats living proof of peaceful conversions. Like i said before, you can't force someone to convert. If someone said they'll convert in fear of not living, they then will return to their original belief when noone is around

 

[ISDhillon]

Re: What do they believe?

true dont bring it up again.

cheers;D

ISDhillon

Not impressed. you don't sound funny. People cannot be forced to follow Islam if they did not believe in it from their hearts.:rollseyes You can't be a Muslim if you don't truly believe so there wouldn't have been any point in supposedly making someone into a Muslim. It just does'nt work that way.[/QUOTE]


the first generation accept islam cos they are otherwise going to get killed, then cos they cant accept the fact that they were cowards (to protect their ego) they then bring theire children up in islam and the children dont know their parents were cowards, so they as you have suggested accept islam in their hearts, this is how it works, in future dont just skim the surface actually look at the whole facts, there are many sikhs who were focfully converted to islam during partition and their children have been brainwashed about their infidel past. But at the same time their are many and i would know cos my mum works for citizens advice bureau who have changed their name and have come back to the true path of sikhi and their parents deep in their hearts would like to come back to but they have too many obligation so make a sacrifice for their duty.

Have a nice day,:thankyou:

ISDhillon

ps remember this was not supposed to turn into a debate about conversions.

 

[ISDhillon]

Re: What do they believe?

Bro listen. if islam spread peacefully everywhere else, then is it so hard to believe the same happened in the indian subcontinent. it doesn't matter, just look today. Theres loads of converts there now. Thats living proof of peaceful conversions. Like i said before, you can't force someone to convert. If someone said they'll convert in fear of not living, they then will return to their original belief when noone is around

is this logical? lol you now want me to logically conclude that isalm may have been spread in some places (even though i dont believe that either) peacefully then it must have done the same in india, the problem is we have shown through an abundance of proof that it wasnt and even god could no longer bear the tyranny so started another religion, the proof is so stark but you keep brininging in other issues you better make sure you never call me illogical again;D

 

[jsc]

Re: What do they believe?

islam was (and is) primaliry a peace loving religion.
but it is a fact that rulers ahve used the sword (and other means) to persuade on-muslims to convert.
Just to name afew well knows examples:
Sri guru Tegh Bahadur Sahib Ji was beheadded for his steadfast beleaf..
Bhai Mati Das Sahib was swordes in half starting from his head for not chaning hjis belief
Bhai Sati Das Sahib was wrapped in cotton and burnt alive
and Bhai Dyala Das Sahib was beaten and boiled alive.
The 2 youngest martyres in history were the 2 brave sons of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji who were walled alive for their steadfast in Sikhism. Emperor Aurungzeb offred the young boys many riches on the condiditon of their conversion. The children (after being tought by their grandmother) remained steadfast in their faith thus becoming the youngest martyrs ever in history.

the only option in these days was death ot islam.

Hundreds of thousands of incidents like these have taken place in India at the hands of mughal rulkers.

im not saying all muslims are tyrants, and im not saying every1 who converted did it out of fear, but yes forced conversions did happen, had have been happeningrecentry in the uk aswell (and probably in other aprts of the world aswell).

 

[Daffodil]

Re: What do they believe?

People cannot be forced to follow Islam if they did not believe in it from their hearts.

Ur forgetting the biggest and most important point here. If people were "forced" in wateva way to accept islam even tho they didnt have the real conviction in their hearts, they wud still bring their children up as muslims, if not properly but just call them muslims, then their children wud find out more about islam n practice a little then the next generation wud practice more n more n so on and so on. so even if ppl didnt really believe in Allah swt and his messanger, they wud still end up having kids that wud be muslim.

U need a gud chat with shaykh khalid yasin. Ive got this brilliant video of this brother who was hindu and became muslim n hes telling his reversion story, its wikid, i think if a sikh watched it, it wud also be of benefit ----

 

[jsc]

Re: What do they believe?

forced conversions have and do happen. people have been forced to denounce their faith. people have been forced to wear hijabs / jalbabs / nikkabs /burka's against their will. people have been kidnappeed and forced to live in islamic countries and to live by their ways.

if your forced into another's strict islamic family, how can u continue with your own faith?.... whilst wearing a burka... which may be against your beliefs...


2 mistakes in my previous post... was ment to be :
the only option in these days was death OR islam.... and

Guru Tegh Bahadur died not for his faith, but in protection of the Hindu faith (a faith which Guru Ji Himself did not believe in)...
We firmly believe in freedom of faith and freedom of belief and the brotherhood of all mankind.

 

[Mohsin]

Re: What do they believe?

islam was (and is) primaliry a peace loving religion.
but it is a fact that rulers ahve used the sword (and other means) to persuade on-muslims to convert.
Just to name afew well knows examples:
Sri guru Tegh Bahadur Sahib Ji was beheadded for his steadfast beleaf..
Bhai Mati Das Sahib was swordes in half starting from his head for not chaning hjis belief
Bhai Sati Das Sahib was wrapped in cotton and burnt alive
and Bhai Dyala Das Sahib was beaten and boiled alive.
The 2 youngest martyres in history were the 2 brave sons of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji who were walled alive for their steadfast in Sikhism. Emperor Aurungzeb offred the young boys many riches on the condiditon of their conversion. The children (after being tought by their grandmother) remained steadfast in their faith thus becoming the youngest martyrs ever in history.

the only option in these days was death ot islam.

Hundreds of thousands of incidents like these have taken place in India at the hands of mughal rulkers.

im not saying all muslims are tyrants, and im not saying every1 who converted did it out of fear, but yes forced conversions did happen, had have been happeningrecentry in the uk aswell (and probably in other aprts of the world aswell).

Well said bro. I agree iwth what you've said. i knwo the Moghuls tried to convert people by force. But Islam was around well before the Moghuls came into power (correct me if i'm wrong) and its continued to convert after the loss of their rule.

By the way what forced conversions have been happening in the UK, i find that hard to believe that is unlilkely to have happened