Use of 'Infidel' and 'Kafir'

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Re: Linguistics of 'Kafir' and 'Infidel'

infidel
1460 (adj., n.), from M.Fr. infidèle, from L. infidelis "unfaithful," later "unbelieving," from in- "not" + fidelis "faithful" (see fidelity). In 15c. "a non-Christian" (especially a Saracen); later "one who does not believe in religion" (1526). Also used to translate Ar. kafir, from a root meaning "to disbelieve, to deny," strictly referring to all non-Muslims but virtually synonymous with "Christian;" hence, from a Muslim or Jewish point of view, "a Christian" (1534). (Online Etymology Dictionary)​
 
Re: Surah 2:62 - need opinion by people of the book(jews, christians) and muslims ali

Greetings,
Sabi said:
Since Atheism in contrast to agnosticism is a belief system I wonder if there is a more appropriate word than infidel to apply to atheists.

How about Malfidel?
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That means 'one with bad (or evil) faith', which is obviously just a value-judgment on your part. Plus it has ironic overtones if you're familiar with Sartre's concept of bad faith...

I don't see 'infidel' as being an inappropriate term for an atheist. As an atheist, I lack faith in a supposed being. The only faith I have in this regard is faith in a certain negative proposition (viz. "There is no god"). That's different from actually having faith in something, isn't it?

Peace
 
To decide for oneself that there is a god or to decide for oneself that there is no god are both steps onto a path of faith whether that faith is positive (is) or negative (isn't) is irrelevant.

It is generally accepted that by knowledge alone, no one can know one way or the other, and that is the agnostic stance. So while an agnostic can be described as someone with no (fanatical agnostic i.e. does not believe in anything outside of own personal experience/exposure their only faith is in what they themselves percieve and even then they ponder about that e.g. descartes) or little (moderate agnostic, i.e. is willing to accept evidence which has some objective concensus of approval concerning it even though s/he personally did not discover the evidence, hence they have faith in people) faith, an atheist is undeniably within a faith system. The few true atheists I have met in life have all conceeded that it is a negative faith.

If you don't like the word malfidel then we need two words, one for positive faith (is) and one for negative faith (isn't), but I am sure that the vast vocabularies in English and arabic already have words for these if we look for them. Does anyone have any suggestions?

:brother:
 
Re: Why do you live in the West if you hate it so?

primitivefuture said:
He meant that kaffirs, as humans and creations of God, don't deserve to enjoy this planet when they fail to obey their Creator.
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The word Kuffar is a collective term, not a particular. In Islamic learning the term is clasified as a "Universal". In other words one should not call people Kaafir specifically. The Prophet forbade us to label people specifically. Rather he said that collective mention is acceptable. He himself did this. From this, a rule is established, as outlined in Mahaaram al-Lisaan (Prohibitions of the Tongue).

The particular of the term Kaafir is left to a process, where a Qadi is required to call upon the specific person to give evidnece of his or her rejection. Whilst this is not done upon every person, the objective is that if a person is seen as hostile to Islam, and there is some need for this. This is very much a theoretical issue in today's world, but it provides weight to the issue and why we do not call people "you are a kaafir".

The term is used upon people by their open and actual action which is clearly and openly disbelief. The Term Kufr is used, to refer to an act of open rejection despite knowing the truth. And there are different levels of Kufr as well, according to the consensus of the Rightly Guided Scholars. So, one would say, "such and such actions are acts of Kufr, and those who do so, are Kuffar".

Allah used the term in the Qur'an as a Universal Descriptive/Specific (for those who have studied logic...) [Dhaati al-Fasl]. There is no right given to point fingers at others. The descriptions define actions not any people. also, let us not think that simply because Allah calls people of certain action Kuffar, that we can too... we are not Allah, A'udhubillah.

( Not my words - words of my Ustad / Teacher )

For more , click Here

..And seriously,KID,learn some Adab.

Im sorry if it seems like i pick on you alot,im not picking on you,you make yourself a very easy target.

Wa'salam.
 
The word Kuffar is a collective term, not a particular. In Islamic learning the term is clasified as a "Universal". In other words one should not call people Kaafir specifically. The Prophet forbade us to label people specifically. Rather he said that collective mention is acceptable. He himself did this. From this, a rule is established, as outlined in Mahaaram al-Lisaan (Prohibitions of the Tongue).

The particular of the term Kaafir is left to a process, where a Qadi is required to call upon the specific person to give evidnece of his or her rejection. Whilst this is not done upon every person, the objective is that if a person is seen as hostile to Islam, and there is some need for this. This is very much a theoretical issue in today's world, but it provides weight to the issue and why we do not call people "you are a kaafir".

The term is used upon people by their open and actual action which is clearly and openly disbelief. The Term Kufr is used, to refer to an act of open rejection despite knowing the truth. And there are different levels of Kufr as well, according to the consensus of the Rightly Guided Scholars. So, one would say, "such and such actions are acts of Kufr, and those who do so, are Kuffar".

Allah used the term in the Qur'an as a Universal Descriptive/Specific (for those who have studied logic...) [Dhaati al-Fasl]. There is no right given to point fingers at others. The descriptions define actions not any people. also, let us not think that simply because Allah calls people of certain action Kuffar, that we can too... we are not Allah, A'udhubillah.

( Not my words - words of my Ustad / Teacher )

For more , click Here

Wa'salam.

-Zubair
 
Kafir (according to dictionary.com) = A tropical African variety of sorghum (Sorghum bicolor) grown in dry regions and in the Great Plains for grain and forage.

:giggling:

So it looks like we're making furniture polish out of the remains of the non-muslims? :giggling:

..Bad joke ;D
 
Re: Why do you live in the West if you hate it so?

:sl:

^ So the word kafir is not allowed to be used by anyone other then allah.
 
Re: Why do you live in the West if you hate it so?

islam-truth said:
:sl:

^ So the word kafir is not allowed to be used by anyone other then allah.
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( Not my words - words of my Ustad / Teacher )
Click to expand...

Im simply posting the opinion of my Teacher.

You can make up your own mind about how you want to go about it :)

wa'salam
 
Re: Why do you live in the West if you hate it so?

Well, the word kaafir can be seen as offensive by some people so when addressing a non-muslim i tend to use 'non-muslim'. But there are some people on this forum who are comfortable to call themselves kaafir.
:w:
 
:sl:

For those who believe,

Sahih Bukhari: Volume 8, Book 73, Number 125d:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "If a man says to his brother, O Kafir (disbeliever)!' Then surely one of them is such (i.e., a Kifir). "

​
Sahih BUkhari:Volume 8, Book 73, Number 125m: Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:
Allah's Apostle said, 'If anyone says to his brother, 'O misbeliever! Then surely, one of them such."
 
Re: Why do you live in the West if you hate it so?

Umm_Shaheed said:
Well, the word kaafir can be seen as offensive by some people so when addressing a non-muslim i tend to use 'non-muslim'. But there are some people on this forum who are comfortable to call themselves kaafir.
:w:
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:sl:

I understand, I won't go up to someone and call them a disbelieve just to get their attention, but that won't change the fact that the person is a disbeliever and the way I see it I don't mean it in an insulting manner I'll adresss disbelievers as a whole by the term ''Kafir''.
 
Re: Why do you live in the West if you hate it so?

That's ok. Just make sure they understand you don't mean it in an insulting manner insha-Allah.
:w:
 
Re: Why do you live in the West if you hate it so?

:?
islam-truth said:
:sl:

I understand, I won't go up to someone and call them a disbelieve just to get their attention, but that won't change the fact that the person is a disbeliever and the way I see it I don't mean it in an insulting manner I'll adresss disbelievers as a whole by the term ''Kafir''.
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Since this is an Islamic forum non-Muslims shouldn't be offended by being called Kafir. If they are called Kafir in public it would be offensive. Of course there are numerous words some non-Muslims use to describe Muslims. I take it that a lot of you on this forum do not mind being referred to by such names (when you are in the minority).:?
 
Re: Why do you live in the West if you hate it so?

searchingsoul said:
Since this is an Islamic forum non-Muslims shouldn't be offended by being called Kafir.
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That's like saying that Britain is a Christian country so Muslims shouldn't mind being called "Mahometans" or much worse. Zhu Xi said a gentleman does not take his hat off even in private. Nor should people be rude to each other just because they are on "safe" ground.
 
Re: Why do you live in the West if you hate it so?

HeiGou said:
That's like saying that Britain is a Christian country so Muslims shouldn't mind being called "Mahometans" or much worse. Zhu Xi said a gentleman does not take his hat off even in private. Nor should people be rude to each other just because they are on "safe" ground.
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You make a valid point. I don't think that non-muslims should be referred to as kafir on this forum. Since it is a private forum muslims have the right to call non-muslims kafir. Personally I think that since the General Guidelines are:

1. Help build an e-Muslim community that supports each other, and promotes the Islamic image..
2. The purpose of this forum is to educate non-Muslims and Muslims about Islam and its tenets.

...then it would be in the best interest of this forum to appeal to non-Muslims in a manner in which they find respectful. Being perceived as respectful will do more for the image of Islam and may even win over some souls. Just my opinion.:)
 
Re: Why do you live in the West if you hate it so?

Being called kafir is nothing compared to the illogical and ignorant insults a Muslim would get in a Christian forum.
 
Re: Why do you live in the West if you hate it so?

HeiGou said:
That's like saying that Britain is a Christian country so Muslims shouldn't mind being called "Mahometans" or much worse. Zhu Xi said a gentleman does not take his hat off even in private. Nor should people be rude to each other just because they are on "safe" ground.
Click to expand...
But you yourself call yourself a kaafir. Do you think the word is offensive? Why then do you call yourself by it then?
 

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