Why do you live in the West if you hate it so?

[searchingsoul]

Re: Should Muslims choose islolation in the West?

peace be upon those who follow righteous guidence,

issolating ourselves totally would be about the least islamic thing to do, we need to help the west, not let it go to destruction arround us.

there is a story in islam i would wish to share with you,
Allah (swt) being angry with the sins of a town sends angels to destroy it,
but the angels come back to Allah and tell him of a house where a man who is constant in prayer and worship,
Allah asks the angels does he forbid that bad things that's going off arround him?
the angels answer no, so Allah tells them to start the destruction with that house.

you see in islam it is not enough we keep the good things to ourselves, we have a duty to pass on the message to others. i am english, i can see a lot worth salvaging in western culture but the rest of it must go and God willing we will help turn this country into an islamic country before too long.

peace be upon those who follow righteous guidence,
Daw'ud

So you think that Muslims should convert all non-Muslims to Islam? Do you think that Muslims need to interact with societies so they can change the Western societies?

 

[Dawud_uk]

Re: Should Muslims choose islolation in the West?

So you think that Muslims should convert all non-Muslims to Islam? Do you think that Muslims need to interact with societies so they can change the Western societies?

interact yes, intergrate no.

and it is up to Allah who becomes muslim or not, but it is our duty as muslims to deliver the message truthfully.

 

[Nicola]

Re: Should Muslims choose islolation in the West?

Many people both Muslims and Christians do choose to live peacefully within a society that they deem unfit. There are those people who refuse to accept the society that they live within and choose to live unpeacefully (rioting, bombing abortion clinics, etc...). What do you suggest to those who choose to live unpeacefully?

I think they need to be islotated in prison until they can control themselves..if they can't they go straight back to jail....;D and do not pass go....

 

[HeiGou]

Hei gou is it worth talking to you!??

I often ask myself that question.

your not even reading carefully!? i said they were made to pay a tax that supported the state you say it discriminated them!? are you feeling ok!? they were paying a less tax than the muslims them selves so that they could be protected within that muslim state!?

Again where is the evidence they were paying less tax than the Muslims. You assert something that the historical record shows not to be true. The Umayyads sent converts back to the land to farm - and pay taxes as if they were non-Muslims - because they could not afford the loss of revenue. Muslims did not pay much tax at all in the early Islamic state. Dhimmis did.

Protected from whom? The Muslims did a bad job of protecting Dhimmis from foreign conquest (by Muslims for instance), the bedouin, the Turks, the Mongols etc etc.

your saying christians wanted protection from others but were made to stay in islamic states!?? facts mate when the crusaders came the jews and the christians of the middle east came to the muslims for protection as the crusaders were barbaric and raped and killed any one they came past!

That is not true either. The Christian population in Greater Syria fell because they were persecuted. They were persecuted because the Muslims felt, with reason, that they sided with the Crusaders. Even Muslim accounts by people like Ibn Jubayr say clearly that Muslim peasants were treated better by the Crusaders than by Muslim rulers. What you say is just not based on facts.

the christians and jews were protected by muslims they were not prisoners they could have left at any point!

How generous - you don't like foreign conquest of your homeland but it is OK, you can leave at any time. Rather like the Palestinians really.

FOR ONE! mecca was a temple to the one god allah that was built by abraham so the idols that were in it were there against the will of the man who built the temple to the one god...

Do you have any evidence of that not contained in the Quran or Hadith?

Besides it is irrelevant, we are discussing forced conversion, not the origin of the Kaba.

DO RESEARCH!!!!

So are we agreed that I am right and the day before the Muslim conquest of Mecca there were no Muslims in Mecca and the day after there were no non-Muslims? Fine.

 

[Dawud_uk]

Re: Should Muslims choose islolation in the West?

I think they need to be islotated in prison until they can control themselves..if they can't they go straight back to jail....;D and do not pass go....

peace be upon those who follow righteous guidence,

i am not defending violence outright, but are there no principles you hold so strongly that crossing them would result in your taking up violence?

for example, i have heard the far extreme of the pro-abortion movement argue that women should have the right to terminate their childs life even after birth, hyperthetically if this was legalised would you no resort to violence to protect the life of those children?

peace be upon those who follow righteous guidence,

Daw'ud

 

[searchingsoul]

Re: Should Muslims choose islolation in the West?

Quote:
Originally Posted by searchingsoul
So you think that Muslims should convert all non-Muslims to Islam? Do you think that Muslims need to interact with societies so they can change the Western societies?

interact yes, intergrate no.

Is further isolation a good idea if certain people find it impossible to have PEACEFUL interaction?

and it is up to Allah who becomes muslim or not, but it is our duty as muslims to deliver the message truthfully.

What if the members of society are aware of the message and simply don't like it? Is isolation a good idea then?

 

[searchingsoul]

Re: Should Muslims choose islolation in the West?

I think they need to be islotated in prison until they can control themselves..if they can't they go straight back to jail....;D and do not pass go....

Maybe if they were isolated they wouldn't get into trouble to begin with. They may be able to live life according to their beliefs without feeling ostracized or offended by others.

 

[julie sarri]

Re: Should Muslims choose islolation in the West?

if we islolated ourself from the west or other groups that we found sinful how would we give dawah and guide non muslims to islam yes they do sinful actions but dawah is a part of islam which we will be asked about on the jugdement day if we didnt spread the word of islam afther all the prophet saw was sent to guide all mankind to the truth which is islam and we do not want to follow the ways of the non believers which are groups of people who stay within there religours groups ie the jewish people who live near me have a hole area for them self there own schools hospital docters shops they dont mix with the west the prophet said we shouldent follow people we should follow the quran and sunnah if muslims have problems with the non muslims there nothink to say you cant move to a better area place like the prophet moved to al madina becouse the non muslims were cousing them problems

 

[searchingsoul]

Re: Should Muslims choose islolation in the West?

if we islolated ourself from the west or other groups that we found sinful how would we give dawah and guide non muslims to islam yes they do sinful actions but dawah is a part of islam which we will be asked about on the jugdement day if we didnt spread the word of islam afther all the prophet saw was sent to guide all mankind to the truth which is islam and we do not want to follow the ways of the non believers which are groups of people who stay within there religours groups ie the jewish people who live near me have a hole area for them self there own schools hospital docters shops they dont mix with the west the prophet said we shouldent follow people we should follow the quran and sunnah if muslims have problems with the non muslims there nothink to say you cant move to a better area place like the prophet moved to al madina becouse the non muslims were cousing them problems

So dawah is an important element of Islam? Thanks for the information. Since this is the case it wouldn't make much sense to choose further isolation. But I wonder if the people who are shouting that they hate the West actually try to spread the word of Islam? As an outsider looking in, the people who truly say they hate Western societies are doing little for spreading Islam, one might even say they are doing harm to Islam. It is these people I'm referring to. What do you think?

 

[...]

Re: Should Muslims choose islolation in the West?

So dawah is an important element of Islam? Thanks for the information. Since this is the case it wouldn't make much sense to choose further isolation. But I wonder if the people who are shouting that they hate the West actually try to spread the word of Islam? As an outsider looking in, the people who truly say they hate Western societies are doing little for spreading Islam, one might even say they are doing harm to Islam. It is these people I'm referring to. What do you think?

Even if there is a single muslim living in a kafar country, they have to do da'wah. There was a village which was totally corrupt and so Allah ordered the angels to send His punishment. The angels returned and said that there is one lady who worships Him and Allah told the angels to turn the whole village upside down on her house.
This just shows that we can't seclude ourselves, while every1 around us is ignorant. And u can only live in a kafar country if u are doing da'wah.
eace:

 

[searchingsoul]

Re: Should Muslims choose islolation in the West?

Even if there is a single muslim living in a kafar country, they have to do da'wah. There was a village which was totally corrupt and so Allah ordered the angels to send His punishment. The angels returned and said that there is one lady who worships Him and Allah told the angels to turn the whole village upside down on her house.
This just shows that we can't seclude ourselves, while every1 around us is ignorant. And u can only live in a kafar country if u are doing da'wah.
eace:

Thanks. I learned today that dawah is mandatory. But it makes me ask myself why I've never known a Muslim who tried to share Islam with me.

 

[Ghazi]

Should Muslims Live in The West?



I've been thinking of reasons why muslims live in non-muslim countries and put their iman at risk, I feel unless your giving dawa or have something that's holding you to these countries muslims should do Hijra since these countries hold kufur lifestyles. Now an example as a youth I see what my follow muslim youth get up to, Lets just say only thing islamic in some is their names, now why live in a place that can easily change someone from a muslim to a kufur and trust me it happens, why not do hijra why simply live here for a lifestyle and put your self at risk, whats your views guys?

 

[seeker_of_ilm]

Re: Should Muslims Live in The West?



But these days muslim countries tend to be just as bad. Countries like Tunisia, Jordan, Turkey, muslims go clubbing and everything. If anything, countries like the UK afford more religious freedoms in some senses then a lot of muslim countries. Give me some examples of PROPER muslim countries....I'd really like to know

 

[Muhammad]

Threads merged.

I felt that the same issue was being discussed in a few threads, so if I am mistaken then let me know Insha'Allaah.

 

[Ghazi]

Re: Should Muslims Live in The West?

But these days muslim countries tend to be just as bad. Countries like Tunisia, Jordan, Turkey, muslims go clubbing and everything. If anything, countries like the UK afford more religious freedoms in some senses then a lot of muslim countries. Give me some examples of PROPER muslim countries....I'd really like to know

Any It doesn't matter if a few are doing haraam, the majority are still muslim, my point being is in the UK step out your house and you got fitnah in your face, from bilboards to half-naked women,now seriously If I moved back home to somalia this wouldn't happen.

 

[Ghazi]

Threads merged.

I felt that the same issue was being discussed in a few threads, so if I am mistaken then let me know Insha'Allaah.

:slL

Your right bro, I forgot about this thread.

 

[seeker_of_ilm]

Re: Should Muslims Live in The West?

Any It doesn't matter if a few are doing haraam, the majority are still muslim, my point being is in the UK step out your house and you got fitnah in your face, from bilboards to half-naked women,now seriously If I moved back home to somalia this wouldn't happen.

Perhaps not, but say you did go to a muslim country, where you'd be socialising with a bunch of muslims that go clubbing, drink and what-not....is it any better to be sinning with muslims? And in a lot of muslim countries...its not a "few" sinning, it is fast becoming a majority. There is fitnah everywhere the world, be the country majority muslim or not.

 

[x Maz x]

Re: Should Muslims choose islolation in the West?

So dawah is an important element of Islam? Thanks for the information. Since this is the case it wouldn't make much sense to choose further isolation. But I wonder if the people who are shouting that they hate the West actually try to spread the word of Islam? As an outsider looking in, the people who truly say they hate Western societies are doing little for spreading Islam, one might even say they are doing harm to Islam. It is these people I'm referring to. What do you think?

“Invite to the Way of your Lord (Islam) with wisdom and fair preaching, and argue with them in a way that is better”. [16:125]
Also refer back to:
http://www.islamicboard.com/basics-islam/21281-dawah.html
InshAllah i feel people lack knowledge themselves and dont take heed and give it, its also about putting what you know into practice [i.e. practicing what you preach] but your quite right dawah is an important element of Islam..
Yes its a pity, they rant on street corners about their hatred for this west but are these really Islamic manners?...Do something about it, one must gaurd his modesty and spread the word of Islam in a polite calm manner not cotchin' on street corners shouting 'DEATH 2 THE WESTERNERS, LONG LIV BIN LADEN?' LOL...On a level they should do it with wisdom as stated in the ayah not look like they gonna pop cause they tried want to express their hatred for the west in one mouth full...no matter how pasionetly she feel about it...the efforts they put in doing that subhanAllah can be put advising the youth on the sad situation of the Ummah and get them intrested in Islam..Although this sad thing does exist without a doubt one must ALWAYS remember these respresent the MINORITY and do NOT represent Islam ...
If they hate the west then so be it...they made their point now suggest a solution inshAllah...do something about it...Bring back Islam without inciting and stiring hatred inshAllah [God-willing]
Peace x

 

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

Why are we living in the west anywayz? We should all try to leave. We have no business here except Da'wah. And even then it's not perminant. Myself included.

 

[x Maz x]

Why me living in the west? cause i was deported here at a young age as I have explained and the docs good to me...Grr the Pakis didnt even get ma birthday right Peace x