Re: Clear proof that Isa(Jesus) Is not a God!
In the name of God Most Gracious Most Merciful
Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds;
Most Gracious, Most Merciful;
Master of the Day of Judgment.
Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek.
Show us the straight way,
The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray.
Greetings panatella, just wanted to comment on your earlier post.
Panatella
Oh for crying out loud! I thought someone was going to offer "proof" again. There is no 'proof' that Jesus was not God.
You see we cannot go back in time and ask Jesus Christ himself whether he claimed divinity or not (that would be the mother of all proves), but what we can do is examine the scriptures that talk about this issue – i.e. the Bible and the Quran. These are the two main sources which talk about the divinity of Christ. Now whether you read the Bible or the Quran it comes to the same conclusion.
You will understand that it is only logical to believe Jesus cannot = God.
I have already posted this in another thread to answer a similar question – so might as well use it again to prove
Jesus is < God
I will go through the concept of Jesus does NOT = God, and inshallah (God willing) try to go through it step by step.
First let’s look at a chapter from the Quran - Sura Iklas Chapter 112.
Say; He is God one and only
God eternal, absolute
He begetteth not nor is he begotten
And there is no one like him
First step - God is one!
Iklas 112:1
“Say; he is God one and only..”
Mark 12:29
And Jesus said to him; the first of all the commandments is; Hear O Israel your Lord OUR GOD is ONE God.
I point out two things from this passage
1st - God is ONE, and
2nd - Jesus says “your lord OUR God…” implying that even Jesus is under God Almighty’s divine authority.
Iklas 112:2
“God eternal absolute..”
Deuteronomy 33.27
The eternal God is thy refuge"
(Psalm 90.2).
"From everlasting to everlasting, thou art God"
- God = eternal
Christians believe Christ DIED for the sins of mankind, hence
- Christ = Not eternal
- Christ Does Not = God
Iklas 112:3-4
“He begetteth not nor is he begotten
And there is no one like him”
From these verses its clear God has neither father nor son. And there is no one like him…not Jesus, Moses, Muhammad, Abraham, Noah…..no one…(may peace and blessing be upon them all)
Now let’s see how the bible is consistent with the verse in the Quran:
1) Mark 10:18
“Why call me good answered Jesus, no one is good but GOD ALONE.”
Here we see Jesus (pbuh) himself stating clearly that he doesn’t even consider him self as being good, but God alone.
To analyse:
Jesus = not good
God = good.
Jesus does NOT = God
2) John 14:28
Jesus says
“…..My father is greater then I”
This shows
God > Jesus.
Just like 2 > 1 and they are two different numbers likewise God > Jesus they are two DIFFERENT entity.
It is not logical to have the same entity greater then it self, e.g. 1 > 1 not true, or x > x this cannot be.
Jesus does NOT = God,
Rather GOD is > Jesus?
3) John 5:30
Jesus says
“I cannot of my own self do nothing, as I hear, I judge, and my judgement is just, because I seek not of my own will but the will of my Father, who has sent me”
Here we read
Jesus cannot do anything by himself, without God’s will. And we know that
God doesn’t require any help.
Jesus does NOT = God
4) James 1:13
“let no man say, when he is tempted, I am tempted of God, for God CANNOT BE TEMPTED BY EVIL, nor tempeth he any man”
We read from this passage, that
God cannot be tempted by evil, but we also know from the bible that
Jesus was tempted by Satan for 40 days.
Luke 4:1-2
Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit in the desert, where for forty days he was tempted by the devil. He ate nothing during those days, and at the end of them he was hungry.
To make it simple
Jesus = can be tempted
God = cannot be tempted.
Jesus does NOT = God
5) Mark 13:31-32
“of that day and that hour no one knows, no, not even the angels in the heavens, nor the son, but the Father”
We understand from this passage that when they asked Jesus about the final hour (judgement day), he didn’t know, and replied - not even the angels know. Only the Almighty ALLAH (GOD) knows the final hour. To simplify:
Jesus = doesn’t know the last hour,
God = has knowledge of that hour.
Jesus does NOT = God
6) "Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite" (Psalm 147.5).;
"Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world" (Acts 15.18).
"All things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do" (Hebrews 4.13).
"O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!" (Romans 11.33).
From these passages we know that God has infinite wisdom, but what about Jesus (pbuh)
: “The next day as they were leaving Bethany, Jesus was hungry. Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs.”
(Mark 11:12-13).
From this passage we understand that Jesus went to find out if there where any fruits. The question is - why is he finding out, surely if God has infinite wisdom he should already have known whether the tree had any fruit and whether it was the season for figs.
Once again we conclude from these passages,
Jesus = doesn’t have infinite knowledge
God = has infinite knowledge
Jesus does NOT = God
And there are plenty more, that favour
Jesus does NOT = God, rather
Jesus is < God
Therefore even the passages from the bible is consistent with the verse of the Quran
Iklas 112:4
“And there is no one like ALLAH”
Not even one of the mightiest messengers - Jesus (pbuh).
So yes there is a perfectly good proof that Jesus doesn’t = God – but many Christians do not want to believe. I am saying many not all because some have come to the conclusion Jesus did not claim divinity.
Just as there is no 'proof' that he was.
That is correct
Just as there is no proof that Muhammad is a prophet.
Quran states Muhammad (pbuh) is the final messenger
If Quran is from God
Then Muhammad (pbuh) is a prophet
To conclude if the Quran is the word of God – then this proves Muhammad (pbuh) is a prophet.
So first believe that God exists
2nd Read the Quran
And then you will know Muhammed (pbuh) is a prophet.
Correct
Just as no proof that the Hindu faith is correct.
Correct
Incorrect - because the Hindu scripture contains many contradictory statements – hence cannot be from God.
There is no proof that God exists.
There is no proof that he does not.
It is all faith and opinion. That is all that there really is.
There are signs of God’s existence (i.e. his creation), but to an atheist these signs are explainable and to a believer these signs point to God – this is when faith comes into it – if God had made everything black and white including his existence then what would be the point of faith.
You can offer "proof" until you are blue in the face, but it is not proof, it is your faith that makes you view it as proof
.
It could be that the receiving person may be ignorant.
But I think that is what God wants, "have faith".
Exactly
Easa definately didn't know had to check it up on yahoo
