US arrests 7 charged to be alleged terror suspects

[Woodrow]

I will respectfully disagree. I agree that often the media hypes the 'muslim angle' to a story. But in this particular case, it is the alleged motive of the group that makes the mention of islam relevent. They are accused of plotting to "kill all the devils we can", in a Jihad against the US government. The very definition of Jihad and the reasons behind it make the fact that they are muslims very relevent to the story.

This is a fact that had no reason to come out until they face trial.


I will agree that could be a factor in their trial. But, remember, at this time the seven are only accused, they have not been tried and convicted. We as a society need not know more then the fact that a crime was commited and 7 suspects were arrested. We are getting ahead of the game. We have no right to know anything about a person until a court has made it public knowledge. right now they have been judged and condemned by the press, because they are Muslim and the press says Muslims want to wage "Jihad" and "kill the devils".

 

[wilberhum]

This is a fact that had no reason to come out until they face trial.

So you support suppression of information?
Censored news, is that what you want?
So are you against the Free Press.
ffended:

 

[Woodrow]

So you support suppression of information?
Censored news, is that what you want?
So are you against the Free Press.
ffended:

Freedom of the press like any freedom, ends when it violates another person's rights. We all have the right to privacy, dignity and respect. we all have the right to a fair trial. We all have the right to our own religious beliefs.

Freedom ends when it causes another person harm or damage in any form or manner, be it word, action or deed.

The press is free to publish as it pleases, but it is not free to slander, spread hatred or violate the right to a fair trial.

Justify one logical and non-malicious reason, why the public needed to know the accused professed to be Muslim? Give one reason to believe that knowledge is not sufficient to disrupt the ability for them to receive a fair trial, free from bias. All potential jurists are now biased, based on reading that. This works both ways, would you be pleased if this is now thrown out of court as it can be shown that pre biased jurists can not be found?

Freedom of the press also demands responsibility of the press. Censorship is not necessary or acceptable, however when a person excersises freedom of the press, they need to be held accountable for their words and show justification for using them. The statement of the men being Muslim had no bearing on the story, it was not an essential fact, it only served to spread bigotry and to jeopordize the right to a fair, unbiased trial.

 

[Woodrow]

From what I gather this particular group seems to be not much more then a group of dissaffected youth who found inspiration in AQ. Meaning young people with too much time on their hand and from their personal perspective little hope for their future. Making joining extremist groups something more desireable then normal day to day living. Overall not much different then those that join Neo Nazi skin head groups who find inspiration in Hitler...

I wish I had said that. I agree Nephew.

 

[wilberhum]

Freedom of the press like any freedom, ends when it violates another person's rights. We all have the right to privacy, dignity and respect. we all have the right to a fair trial. We all have the right to our own religious beliefs.QUOTE]
You don't advocate Freedom of Press, you advocate a Sensored press.ffended:
I'm glad you are not the one that gets to limit my freedoms.:rant:

 

[Panatella]

The role of the media is to keep us informed on current events, and to give us the facts without bias. We as a society have every right to know someone has been accused of a crime and what that accusation is. It is up to the court to decide if those accusations are true or not. The role of the media is NOT to pass any kind of biased judgement, or to pass on unrelated facts or opinions. In this case the reported facts were related.

 

[Woodrow]

Freedom of the press like any freedom, ends when it violates another person's rights. We all have the right to privacy, dignity and respect. we all have the right to a fair trial. We all have the right to our own religious beliefs.

You don't advocate Freedom of Press, you advocate a Sensored press.ffended:
I'm glad you are not the one that gets to limit my freedoms.:rant:

I fought and was gravely injured so that you can have those very freedoms you are now accusing me of suppressing. Young man those are not the words to say to a US disabled combat Vet.

I am 100% in favor of the freedoms you enjoy and I put my life and 7 years of my freedom on the line so that you may enjoy them. those were very expensive Freedoms you enjoy. All I ask is for people to use them with dignity, compassion and fairness.

 

[snakelegs]

if a person committing a crime says it is in the name of islam, how is it irrelevant?
legally, the label alleged belongs before the crime they are accused for.
so if a muslim held up a bank and didn't tie it in with jihad, his religion should not be mentioned and i don't think it would be.
btw, do you know of any legal challenges on this issue?

 

[Ghazi]

give us the facts without bias.

:giggling: :giggling: :giggling: :giggling: :giggling: :giggling: :giggling: :giggling: :giggling: :giggling: :giggling: :giggling: :giggling: :giggling: :giggling:

 

[Woodrow]

if a person committing a crime says it is in the name of islam, how is it irrelevant?
legally, the label alleged belongs before the crime they are accused for.
so if a muslim held up a bank and didn't tie it in with jihad, his religion should not be mentioned and i don't think it would be.
btw, do you know of any legal challenges on this issue?

"if a person committing a crime says it is in the name of islam, how is it irrelevant?"

It would be relevant, It is fair to quote the exact words of a person, but stated simply as what the person said, not to lead to the assumption this was an Islamic belief.

"btw, do you know of any legal challenges on this issue?"


Not specificaly in accordance with Islam. But, I am aware of many similar challanges in the past regarding other religions.

Some similar cases challenged and won were presented by Madelyn O'hare, regarding discrimination against atheism. I am certain similar ones have been presented by Christian Scientists, Jehovah Witnesses, Roman Catholics and possibly Southern Baptists. From what I recall the rulings have been that unless a person's religious beliefs are a pertinent part of a story they can be considered prejudice and or slander, if mentioned. I apologise for not recalling the dates and events that brought about those legal challanges. So until I can find verification this has to be considered my opinion

 

[wilberhum]

I fought and was gravely injured so that you can have those very freedoms you are now accusing me of suppressing.
Thank you. I have great respect for those that served. An honor that I was deprived of. I signed up to go to Nam but failed the physical.
But one of the things that you fought for was freedom of the press and now you want to suppress it.
Young man those are not the words to say to a US disabled combat Vet.
I wish I was a young man. I mean no disrespect but the fact that you served, and I assumed served honorably, and gave much, does not give you the right to change our Constructional Rights.

All I ask is for people to use them with dignity, compassion and fairness.
In a perfect world that would work. But we are far from that. There are always those that will abuse rights, at least by some one’s standard. Once you set limitations, some one else will set more limitations, and others even more limitations. That is a slippery slope and at the bottom, there are NO Freedoms. Surly that is not what you fought and gave for.

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Hello Wilber,

But one of the things that you fought for was freedom of the press and now you want to suppress it.

Surely you realize that there is no such thing as absolute freedom in ANY society. EVERY society limits individual freedoms and balances them with the rights of others. For example, in many court cases a publication ban is placed as the media might sway public opinion making it impossible to find an impartial jury. This is to prevent the rights of the accused from being infringed.

Regards

 

[snakelegs]

"if a person committing a crime says it is in the name of islam, how is it irrelevant?"

It would be relevant, It is fair to quote the exact words of a person, but stated simply as what the person said, not to lead to the assumption this was an Islamic belief.

agreed.

 

[Woodrow]

I fought and was gravely injured so that you can have those very freedoms you are now accusing me of suppressing.
Thank you. I have great respect for those that served. An honor that I was deprived of. I signed up to go to Nam but failed the physical.
But one of the things that you fought for was freedom of the press and now you want to suppress it.
Young man those are not the words to say to a US disabled combat Vet.
I wish I was a young man. I mean no disrespect but the fact that you served, and I assumed served honorably, and gave much, does not give you the right to change our Constructional Rights.

All I ask is for people to use them with dignity, compassion and fairness.
In a perfect world that would work. But we are far from that. There are always those that will abuse rights, at least by some one’s standard. Once you set limitations, some one else will set more limitations, and others even more limitations. That is a slippery slope and at the bottom, there are NO Freedoms. Surly that is not what you fought and gave for.

"I wish I was a young man. I mean no disrespect but the fact that you served, and I assumed served honorably, and gave much, does not give you the right to change our Constructional Rights."

I have no desire to change the Constitution. I do believe in and support Freedom of the Press. My anger is over it being used irresponsibly. If it is pertenant for the story it should be added. Freedom of the press and responsibility of the press are 2 seperate issues. A responsible person will have the restraint and honor to write only what is pertinent to a story.

If someone were to write a story about George Bush and the story was about how he botches up the English Language. His religion most likely would be of no importance and should not be published. It would only be mentioned if the Reporter wanted to express the concept that all members of that religion were idiots in regards to linguistics.

 

[wilberhum]

Woodrow
The paper quoted what he said. You may think that is not news worthy, I do not agree.

 

[wilberhum]

Ansar Al-'Adl
You always want to skate on that "Slipery Slope". I don't.

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

You always want to skate on that "Slipery Slope". I don't.

I'm afraid the slope is inescapable since you will often find issues in life that are not black and white. Everyone agrees that limits are crucial for the preservation of society, not everyone agrees where they should be placed. And it is this subjectivity inherent in human opinion that leads to the conclusion that only God can rightfully legislate for us our limits and regulations, so that we won't be doomed to that 'slippery slope'.

Regards

 

[Skillganon]

MIAMI (Reuters) - The FBI arrested seven people in the past two days suspected of planning attacks on FBI offices and a federal building in Miami and the Sears Tower in Chicago, a law enforcement source said on Thursday.

OK. Supecting?
Not proven yet. I mean when travell by the underground I am a suspect also.

The source, elaborating on a statement on the operation from Florida authorities, said the suspects had thought they were dealing with the international al Qaeda group but had been infiltrated by a U.S. government informant.

Let's stick to the court, and see if this claim are true.

"In the past couple of days, the U.S. government has taken into custody seven people who were conspiring to conduct jihad (holy war) in the United States," the law enforcement source said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

Well maybe if the U.S stopped it's Holy War,, ooppss Unholy war we would not get people who want to exact a price.

"They thought they were dealing with al Qaeda," the source said, adding the suspects had been trying to buy weapons and other things needed to carry out attacks.

The source said the government had an informant with whom the suspected conspirators had discussed their plans. "There was no immediate threat because we were in on the discussions." the source said.

The U.S. Attorney's Office for the Southern District of Florida, confirming arrests had taken place but giving no details, also said there was no threat to people in Miami.

"Earlier today, the FBI, in conjunction with federal, state and local authorities, executed arrests as part of an ongoing investigation into a terrorist-related matter," the statement said.

Let's wait and see how much of this story holdsa true and wheter they are guilty or not, by proper legal court.

CNN reported searches and arrests in the Miami district of Liberty City. It said no weapons or bomb-making materials were found.

Good.

FBI Director Robert Mueller, in an interview with CNN, said he could not discuss details because it was a continuing operation.

"Whenever we undertake an operation like this, we would not do it without the approval of a judge. We got search warrants and arrest warrants and the like, and so yes it's a concern," Mueller said.

Well the U.S goverment does not, or blair for the matter.

The U.S. Attorney's Office statement said news conferences would be held in Washington and Miami on Friday to provide further details

Until than, don't jump onto everything you hear. Let's wait and see what the court decide and how much evidence is theire.

 

[Ninth_Scribe]

So why lower yourself to other people's standards?

I think that's only human... but remember... I'm still ticked off at the King of Jordan right now.

 

[Ninth_Scribe]

Guilty of trying to blow up a building? I don't think so.

I have (in the privacy of my own mind) blown up, blasted and wiped many different people and places off the face of this Earth... for a variety of reasons. It is human nature but experience has taught me... not to talk about it anymore

Ninth Scribe