Brussels Muslim teachers fired over Hijab

[sameer]

you need to understand that the western view of an ''important'' woman ''respected'' in her society and the islamic perspective are not the same

the west might view the traditional family based structure as an excuse to hold women back

but Islam definitly doesn't view it that way

it's the muslim sister who's been given a job far more important than one of a prime minister or a CEO of a multinational company so please don't compare something as noble as motherhood to these inferior positions

the muslim sister is the one who will influence and shape the society she's in

she is the backbone of the Islamic Ummah

the west where for the last 30 years having both parents employed became a phenomenon are facing serious problems like children being abused in daycare or children growing up with no parental guidance and turning into criminals

Islam doesn't need to proof itself to an western ideologie like democracy

It was muslim scholars who brought the west out of the Dark age

the fact that in Islam it's stated that Heaven is under a woman's feet (mother) says enough for me and it's view towards my sisters




fictional stories are irrelevant to a muslim society we care about the teachings of Islam

great female islamic scholars VVV

Umm al-Darda 700 AD

was regarded by some of her contemporary leading male traditionists as "superior to all the other traditionists of the period, including the celebrated masters of hadith like al-Hasan al-Basri and Ibn Sirin." 'Amra was specially recognized for her authority on traditions related by A'isha and among her many notable students was Abu Bakr ibn Hazm, the celebrated judge of Medina, who was ordered by none other than the caliph Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz himself to write down all the traditions known on her authority.

Zaynab bint Sulayman 759 AD

gained a reputation as one of the most distinguished women traditionists of the time, and counted many important men among her pupils."

Karima al-Marwaziyya 1144 AD

is one of those names that we should proudly know and remember, "who was considered the best authority on the Sahih of al-Bukhari in her own time. Abu Dharr of Herat, one of the leading scholars of the period, attached such great importance to her authority that he advised his students to study the Sahih under no one else, because of the quality of her scholarship." Among her students were al-Khatib al-Baghdadi, a noted Islamic scholar and historian.

Fatima bint Muhammad 1178 AD

received from her contemporary hadith specialists "the proud tittle of Musnida Isfahan (the great hadith authority of Isfahan)." Shuhda 'the Writer' "was a famous calligrapher and a traditionist of great repute ... Her lectures on Sahih al-Bukhari and other hadith collections were attended by large crowds of students; and on account of her great reputation, some people even falsely claimed to have been her disciples.

Sitt al-Wuzara 1316

became well-known as an authority on Bukhari. Her acclaimed mastery included Islamic law as well. Crowned as 'the musnida of her time', she delivered public lectures on the Sahih and other works in Damascus and Egypt.

Zaynab bint Ahmad 1139 AD

used to deliver public lectures the Musnad of Abu Hanifa, the Shamail of al-Tirmidhi, and the Sharh Ma'ani al-Athar of al-Tahawi. Do we remember the great traveler Ibn Battuta? He studied hadith with her and various other women during his stay at Damascus.

masha-allah may allah grant these great sisters Jannah Amiin :happy:

^^ ameen

well put brother.

 

[sameer]

anyways...I'm off to Jummah sallaah
Assalamu Alikum everyone :thankyou:

 

[Ghazi]

anyways...I'm off to Jummah sallaah
Assalamu Alikum everyone :thankyou:

Crazy time diffrence It's almost asar in the uk.

 

[nennar]

Salaam alaika ya rasullulah, wa salaam alaika ya habibAllah!
again brother sameer you are right!!!! it apolling so many children who get abused..... or how many children who just wandrer in the streets.... i know life is not easy... but that goes for all people... i just saw dr phil today! with all the teen pregnancys.... whta kind of life is that???? you have so many children in fosterhomes..... its so sad! and if you society is good why does so many live in the streets?? women mostly

 

[AHMED_GUREY]

Well that is obvious.

yet you still ask questions

Well no. What you mean is that the West may view of the traditional family structure as holding women back, but Muslims do not see it that way.

reread what you just typed

a muslim is a person who follows islam therefore an muslim view is automaticly an islamic derrived view so my comment was on point!

Hmm, interesting that when women get the chance so many of them prefer being Prime Minister or CEO to that noble role - or in the West doing both. Why can't a woman combine both roles?

show statistics to back your claims

i'll be waiting

As opposed to Western Muslims who are far less likely to have a Mother who works but are also far more likely to be in jail or in trouble with the law? And aren't you Somali in origin? A community that in Britain has exceptional low rates of education, women's participation in the workforce but also high rates of criminal activity among the young.

translation i have nothing else to say so i resort to ad hominem comments

2 somalis shooting a police officer doesn't qualify as high rates of criminal activity among the general community

what i do see is somali males being harassed by the police after that incident

the somali communities are setting up shops and malls on their own and making ''do'' the hard way evendo they are struggling

they will over come it

http://www.wakiil.com/Business Community.htm

but it's funny how somalis prosper when there in a muslim country

The largest African community in Dubai is the Somalis, driven out of their home by years of unrest.

Somali businesses line the streets of the city center

The Somalis seem to have cornered this niche market for West African jewellery: half a dozen of them are doing brisk business here. "My customers come from Senegal, Mali, Ghana, The Gambia, and from the east of Africa as well," says shop owner Farhia Islow Adam

Dubai's proximity, economic climate and infrastructure has served Somali business well. The Somali Business Council in Dubai has a membership of about 200 companies. (Unofficial numbers could be much higher, though.)

Dubai 12 May. 06 ( Sh.M.Network) Many Somalis including educated people, businessmen and professionals have been pouring into UAE, particular in Dubai, Somali professors teach at the biggest universities in the Arab country.

Also in other settlements in UAE there were in creasing numbers of Somali families shifted from Europe, Australia and north America and see the UAE as an Islamic country and at the same time as a country that had a long relationship with Somalia and had more considerations to Somali society.

i wonder why?

I would agree with that. If she is ignorant and uneducated so will her children be.

thank god she's not!

Well I don't agree but even if it is true, what have you done for us lately?

again Islam was not made to help the west with it's shortcomings

i think one time was enough

and your still benefiting from it till this day

Indeed. And yet all the searching by Muslim websites has only found six. Interesting.

you asked for a couple i gave a halve dozen

but your comment is red herring

i gave you pre 1900 female muslim scholars and your still not satisfied with it

 

[nennar]

Salaam alaika ya rasullulah, wa salaam alaika ya habibAllah

i am very satisfied..... but some one in here..... i think.... just cant understand it

 

[HeiGou]

Well no. What you mean is that the West may view of the traditional family structure as holding women back, but Muslims do not see it that way.

reread what you just typed

a muslim is a person who follows islam therefore an muslim view is automaticly an islamic derrived view so my comment was on point!

You miss my point. No matter.

As opposed to Western Muslims who are far less likely to have a Mother who works but are also far more likely to be in jail or in trouble with the law? And aren't you Somali in origin? A community that in Britain has exceptional low rates of education, women's participation in the workforce but also high rates of criminal activity among the young.

translation i have nothing else to say so i resort to ad hominem comments

2 somalis shooting a police officer doesn't qualify as high rates of criminal activity among the general community

what i do see is somali males being harassed by the police after that incident

the somali communities are setting up shops and malls on their own and making ''do'' the hard way evendo they are struggling

they will over come it

You can call it what you like but it is true. At least about the Muslims. It is likely to be true about the Somalis too.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/5029390.stm

You might like to look at "Somalis suffer in Britain" by Ibrahim, Mohamed Mukhtar, Eastern Africa Magazine, July, 2004, Issue 16

but it's funny how somalis prosper when there in a muslim country

The largest African community in Dubai is the Somalis, driven out of their home by years of unrest.

Yes isn't it? Perhaps the competition from non-Muslims is less there.

The Somalis seem to have cornered this niche market for West African jewellery: half a dozen of them are doing brisk business here. "My customers come from Senegal, Mali, Ghana, The Gambia, and from the east of Africa as well," says shop owner Farhia Islow Adam

Can't imagine how the Arabs let the Somalis dominate the market for West African jewellery! Bet they do in London too.

again Islam was not made to help the west with it's shortcomings

Indeed. Nor does it.

i think one time was enough

and your still benefiting from it till this day

If it makes you feel better I am happy for you to think that. I don't think there is any evidence of it. Isn't it nice we have given you so much more in return?

you asked for a couple i gave a halve dozen

but your comment is red herring

No I asked for a couple like George Sand or Jane Austen. You have trawled a few names none of whom appear to have been particularly distinguished.

 

[HeiGou]

I would agree with that. If she is ignorant and uneducated so will her children be.

thank god she's not

Sorry. Deleted by mistake.

Actually all Muslim countries tend to have high female illiteracy rates. So one thing that can be said for sure is that despite the enormous respect Islam has for women, Muslims tend not to educate their daughters.

Compare this group of countries

http://hdr.undp.org/reports/global/2003/indicator/indic_213_1_1.html

21 Italy 98.1
22 Israel 93.1
23 Portugal 90.3
24 Greece 96.1
25 Cyprus 95.7
26 Hong Kong, China (SAR) 89.6
27 Barbados 99.7
28 Singapore 88.7
29 Slovenia 99.6
30 Korea, Rep. of 96.6

With these ones,

106 Iran, Islamic Rep. of 70.2
107 Algeria 58.3
110 Syrian Arab Republic 61.6
120 Egypt 44.8
126 Morocco 37.2
134 Comoros 48.8
138 Sudan 47.7
139 Bangladesh 30.8
144 Pakistan 28.8
148 Yemen 26.9
153 Djibouti 55.5
154 Mauritania 30.7
155 Eritrea 45.6
156 Senegal 28.7
165 Chad 35.8
172 Mali 16.6
173 Burkina Faso 14.9
174 Niger 8.9

In fact I would say that the first predictor of female illiteracy is region (Africa is less literate than Europe) but within regions, the next best predictor is the number of Muslims a country has. The more it has the lower the rate of female literacy.

 

[sameer]

^^ what do you percieve to be education? how do u rate if a person is educated or not?

 

[sameer]

^^ when the slaves were taken from africa...they were considered to be uneducated and uncivilised from an european point of view. How ever they were educated as they could have read arabic and educated in survival and the traditions and culture of their tribes and ancestors... .... so how do u measure education?

 

[HeiGou]

what do you percieve to be education? how do u rate if a person is educated or not?

They were literacy rates - the percentage of women who can read and write. I do not consider that to be educated, but it is a necessary first step.

 

[HeiGou]

^^ when the slaves were taken from africa...they were considered to be uneducated and uncivilised from an european point of view. How ever they were educated as they could have read arabic and educated in survival and the traditions and culture of their tribes and ancestors... .... so how do u measure education?

I would say that is 1. not true and 2. irrelevant. There are not two conflicting cultures here. These are figures for literacy in whatever language the local authorities determine is acceptable.

If only half of Algerian women can read it means that only half of Algerian women can read.

 

[nennar]

Salaam alaika ya rasullulah, wa salaam alaika ya habibAllah
sorry???????????????? how did the algerian women get in to this?????????????

i am not algerian.......................

 

[HeiGou]

how did the algerian women get in to this?????????????

i am not algerian.......................

Algeria was on the list I gave. It struck me as odd that it should be so low or so high depending on how you look at it (Socialist countries tend to have quite high levels, traditional Muslim ones quite low. Algeria is sort of half and half)

 

[nennar]

Salaam alaika ya rasullulah, wa salaam alaika ya habibAllah
more than 2/3 of the algerian people are young people and its not the the young women who cant read or dont go to school.... its the men...... all the women have high education...... and its a rule for every body to go to school

 

[AHMED_GUREY]

You miss my point. No matter.

it's not me missing a ''point'' it's you failing to see you have no ''point'' at all

since there wasn't a point at all your statement of me missing a point is invalid

so please don't point your finger at me and claim i missed a ''point'' when i never did :thankyou:

You can call it what you like but it is true. At least about the Muslims. It is likely to be true about the Somalis too.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/5029390.stm

You might like to look at "Somalis suffer in Britain" by Ibrahim, Mohamed Mukhtar, Eastern Africa Magazine, July, 2004, Issue 16

http://www.wakiil.com/Business Community.htm

Yes isn't it? Perhaps the competition from non-Muslims is less there.

perhaps the business system there is better

perhaps somalis don't face harassment from the police there

perhaps perhaps

Can't imagine how the Arabs let the Somalis dominate the market for West African jewellery! Bet they do in London too.

it's not about letting or allowing it's about being an smart entrepreneur and achieving success

the fact that arabs and somalis have been trading partners for a millenia makes it even easier

Indeed. Nor does it.

If it makes you feel better I am happy for you to think that. I don't think there is any evidence of it.

http://muslimheritage.com/topics/de...eID=125&TaxonomyThirdLevelID=-1&ArticleID=372

muslim mathmatician Al-Kindi who developed cryptography a system that paved the way for modern computers, Internet and the digital world :rollseyes

http://muslimheritage.com/topics/default.cfm?ArticleID=224

or how muslims revolutionised chemistry :rollseyes

or the islamic foundation of spain

Isn't it nice we have given you so much more in return?

yeah i agree invading sovereign muslim nations and supporting terrorist states that oppress them is really something to be proud of :uhwhat

wow thank you

No I asked for a couple like George Sand or Jane Austen. You have trawled a few names none of whom appear to have been particularly distinguished.

hold up this wasn't a comparison

the women you mentioned don't even come close to the women i presented

as a muslim this is how see it

George Sand or Jane Austen are irrelevant to me

they might mean something to you and i respect that

but like i said as an muslim they are irrelevant to me

 

[sameer]

I would say that is 1. not true and 2. irrelevant. There are not two conflicting cultures here. These are figures for literacy in whatever language the local authorities determine is acceptable.

If only half of Algerian women can read it means that only half of Algerian women can read.

How can u say this is not true? because ure western written histroy books say so? well i live in the Caribbean which is populated by descendant of african slaves and east indian indentured labourers...and i am teling u that this is true.

Again my point is.....how can u say if a person cannot read that they are uneducated? I am sure there are women who know and can recite the entire Quran in its origianal language from these countries. these sisters are certainly blessed and more educated than me. Can you recite any entire book by heart?..can u with ure education goto their environment and survive?- i mean plant crops..survive in the desert, hunt or whatever...?

our beloved prophet Muhammad (saw) couldnt read nor write but yet he is reagarded as the most influencial man to ever walk the earth and is loved by millions. Here is an excerp of a paper done by a non muslim woman -

Mohammed The Prophet
By Prof. K. S. Ramakrishna Rao, Head of the Department of Philosophy,
Government College for Women University of Mysore, Mandya-571401 (Karnatika).

In the desert of Arabia was Mohammad born, according to Muslim historians, on April 20, 571. The name means highly praised. He is to me the greatest mind among all the sons of Arabia. He means so much more than all the poets and kings that preceded him in that impenetrable desert of red sand.

When he appeared Arabia was a desert -- a nothing. Out of nothing a new world was fashioned by the mighty spirit of Mohammad -- a new life, a new culture, a new civilization, a new kingdom which extended from Morocco to Indies and influenced the thought and life of three continents -- Asia, Africa and Europe.

When I thought of writing on Mohammad the prophet, I was a bit hesitant because it was to write about a religion I do not profess and it is a delicate matter to do so for there are many persons professing various religions and belonging to diverse school of thought and denominations even in same religion.

this from an unlettered man.....- uneducated by your definition.

Muhammad is even regarded by non-muslim scholars as the most sucessful and influential man in history . heres a link :http://www.adherents.com/adh_influ.html

look and see who is number 1.

I do however support that women in these coutries should be taught to read...but i wont dare say they are uneducated.

 

[HeiGou]

How can u say this is not true? because ure western written histroy books say so? well i live in the Caribbean which is populated by descendant of african slaves and east indian indentured labourers...and i am teling u that this is true.

I am not going to argue over it. I will just point out the near total lack of evidence for that claim.

Again my point is.....how can u say if a person cannot read that they are uneducated? I am sure there are women who know and can recite the entire Quran in its origianal language from these countries. these sisters are certainly blessed and more educated than me. Can you recite any entire book by heart?..can u with ure education goto their environment and survive?- i mean plant crops..survive in the desert, hunt or whatever...?

No they are well trained, they are not well educated. To be educated you must be able to understand. Reciting by heart does not prove that they are well educated.

our beloved prophet Muhammad (saw) couldnt read nor write but yet he is reagarded as the most influencial man to ever walk the earth and is loved by millions.

So I have heard. I am not sure what the relevance is.

this from an unlettered man.....- uneducated by your definition.

Well that is not fair. Muhammed got to speak to Archangels. It is unfair to compare comments I made about women in Algeria to Muhammed. Unless you think they too get to speak to Gabriel?

I do however support that women in these coutries should be taught to read...but i wont dare say they are uneducated.

Fair enough.

 

[sameer]

so......were u not trained to read?

 

[nennar]

Salaam alaika rasullulah, wa salaam alaika habibAllah!!
i need to ask you heigou! are you even a muslim???? i am sure that you got to go to a nice college!???? maybe all did in your family??? so you are lucky.... that you have had the choice.... not all have... but it doesent mean they are stupid