Lebanon Reels Under Fresh Strikes, 19 Killed

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what passes for their government is a democratically elected group...i thought thats what US and other countries pretended to want? democracy? or does it only apply to the goverment that they want and not the ppl?
 
No, the suffering of our people was great, but the image of evil Europeans chasing down scared peaceful Natives and killing them in a mass genocide isn't reality. You have to keep in mind that these events span 500 years, and there were atrocities on both sides. Invasion is wrong, but it doesn't make any action of the other party justified.
 
sameer said:
so u are really saying that the plight of ure people are hyped up and it wasnt that bad and its really negative propaganda? and the invasion and abuse/rape/burning etc...didnt really happen? and beacuse the fact that the europeans were technologiaclly advance they used it to their advantage to fight unfairly etc? or the fact that they traded contaminated sheets and items to ure ppl so they can infect them with the differnet diseases?
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Where did I say that? The contaminated sheets is a myth. One US officer was caught doing that and was coutmarshalled. If I can find the link I'll show you were the US condemn the tactic. There were times in US history where the US government did some disgusting things (Trail of Tears) but on a whole I blame the Elder Chiefs for making stupid deals that got us in the prediciment we are in. Did you know that most of the US wasn't taken by force but instead given away in treaties? If anything the US warred with the British and Mexicans more than they warred with us.
 
sameer said:
what passes for their government is a democratically elected group...i thought thats what US and other countries pretended to want? democracy? or does it only apply to the goverment that they want and not the ppl?
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I was responding more to the ability of that government to control the actions of its people and to be a reliable negotiating party, which I don't believe the present governemnt it. They were elected, but that doesn't mean they are a reliable government, especially in crisis such as this.
 
i notice u said u assume.......that their other intention...
-dont assume..
cause that dont justify the slow deaths of over 1 million ppl. and they are holding thousands of palestinian ppl in prisons too including childeren and women..... and palestinian militants have 1 of their soliers?
 
sameer said:
i notice u said u assume.......that their other intention...
-dont assume..
cause that dont justify the slow deaths of over 1 million ppl. and they are holding thousands of palestinian ppl in prisons too including childeren and women..... and palestinian militants have 1 of their soliers?
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Don't Pals use children and women for suicide runs? They just caught a 12 year old last year trying to cross with explosives. Jail is the price you pay.
 
Geronimo said:
Where did I say that? The contaminated sheets is a myth. One US officer was caught doing that and was coutmarshalled. If I can find the link I'll show you were the US condemn the tactic. There were times in US history where the US government did some disgusting things (Trail of Tears) but on a whole I blame the Elder Chiefs for making stupid deals that got us in the prediciment we are in. Did you know that most of the US wasn't taken by force but instead given away in treaties? If anything the US warred with the British and Mexicans more than they warred with us.
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no i didnt know that...so infact they took advantage of ure peoples innocence or that lack of them to make proper trades?
 
Geronimo said:
Where did I say that? The contaminated sheets is a myth. One US officer was caught doing that and was coutmarshalled. If I can find the link I'll show you were the US condemn the tactic. There were times in US history where the US government did some disgusting things (Trail of Tears) but on a whole I blame the Elder Chiefs for making stupid deals that got us in the prediciment we are in. Did you know that most of the US wasn't taken by force but instead given away in treaties? If anything the US warred with the British and Mexicans more than they warred with us.
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yes, the image of the noble "red man" fighting the American invaders is mostly due to the plains tribes, of which I am, and the major battles that took place there. And of course Geronimo...not the poster in the forum but the historical figure. Most of the land was given in treaties by people who had no idea of what they were doing, since the concept of a human being owning a peice of land was actually fairly funny to Natives of that time.
 
Geronimo said:
Don't Pals use children and women for suicide runs? They just caught a 12 year old last year trying to cross with explosives. Jail is the price you pay.
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ok....so what about the general who orders the tanks and bulldozers to move into a territory and bomb and kill the ppl and then clear their land? not jail for him also?
 
Keltoi said:
No, the suffering of our people was great, but the image of evil Europeans chasing down scared peaceful Natives and killing them in a mass genocide isn't reality. You have to keep in mind that these events span 500 years, and there were atrocities on both sides. Invasion is wrong, but it doesn't make any action of the other party justified.
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ok so by ure logic ...the ppl being invaded to should just sit back and accept it?
 
sameer said:
ok so by ure logic ...the ppl being invaded to should just sit back and accept it?
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No, you don't sit back and accept it, but you also look for ways to live in peace. Most tribes knew that to fight the U.S. army large-scale would be a disaster for their people. I'm actually proud of the fact that my people cared more about their own people than endless war. Sometimes you have to face the reality of a situation and realize that war doesn't solve all problems, and some things cannot be changed.
 
sameer said:
ok....so what about the general who orders the tanks and bulldozers to move into a territory and bomb and kill the ppl and then clear their land? not jail for him also?
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If you can capture him and keep him go for it.
 
Keltoi said:
yes, the image of the noble "red man" fighting the American invaders is mostly due to the plains tribes, of which I am, and the major battles that took place there. And of course Geronimo...not the poster in the forum but the historical figure. Most of the land was given in treaties by people who had no idea of what they were doing, since the concept of a human being owning a peice of land was actually fairly funny to Natives of that time.
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hmmm it baffles me to think that u and geranimo are playing down the plight of ure people. U talk of them sayin that they gave away the land...and they had raids on the europeans so there fore they deserved what happened to them?
 
sameer said:
hmmm it baffles me to think that u and geranimo are playing down the plight of ure people. U talk of them sayin that they gave away the land...and they had raids on the europeans so there fore they deserved what happened to them?
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No, I just play down the belief that somehow Native Americans have ceased to exist, which is very far from the truth.
 
Keltoi said:
No, you don't sit back and accept it, but you also look for ways to live in peace. Most tribes knew that to fight the U.S. army large-scale would be a disaster for their people. I'm actually proud of the fact that my people cared more about their own people than endless war. Sometimes you have to face the reality of a situation and realize that war doesn't solve all problems, and some things cannot be changed.
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so u are proud of the ppl who negotiated and u are not proud of the bravery of men who died to protect their lands or village or family?
 
Geronimo said:
If you can capture him and keep him go for it.
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how come u dont come on a forun and rally for him to be jailed? u are being really unfair and biased.
u see my point and u totally refuse to accept it.
 
sameer said:
so u are proud of the ppl who negotiated and u are not proud of the bravery of men who died to protect their lands or village or family?
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I'm proud of those who fought, but I value human life over pride. To fight the U.S. Army you put your families in danger, since the tribes traveled and fought with their families only a mile away or more, this put them at great risk for death. Pride isn't worth the death of your children or your wife.
 
sameer said:
hmmm it baffles me to think that u and geranimo are playing down the plight of ure people. U talk of them sayin that they gave away the land...and they had raids on the europeans so there fore they deserved what happened to them?
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Not at all just trying to clear up some falsehoods.
 
Keltoi said:
No, I just play down the belief that somehow Native Americans have ceased to exist, which is very far from the truth.
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ok so according to you - u do exist and have not suffered and ure ppl deseved it.

Thanks...at least i heard it form a native american's mouth.
 
Keltoi said:
I'm proud of those who fought, but I value human life over pride. To fight the U.S. Army you put your families in danger, since the tribes traveled and fought with their families only a mile away or more, this put them at great risk for death. Pride isn't worth the death of your children or your wife.
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it seems to me that u value humiliation and being donimated.
 

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