GOD in the eyes of Science: Possibility or Necessity

[IbnAbdulHakim]

I don't know anything about him. I'm hoping to do some research before I see the viedo.

i guarantee that you will be pleased with what you find sir

 

[wilberhum]

Abd'Majid

Sorry, I was totally unimpressed.

This is what I found on the web.
Dr. Zakir Naik, is the President of the Islamic Research Foundation, and has spoken extensively on the topics of Islam and Comparative Religion. He was born on October 18, 1965 in Mumbia (Bombay) India. He holds a Bachelor of Medicine and Bachelor of Surgery (M.B.B.S.) from the University of Mumbai. Dr. Naik has an ability to quote extensive passages of the Qur'an, as well as other books, from memory.
And http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zakir_Naik
They had a lot of information, both pro and con.

This was all the unbiased information I could find. I checked over a hundred of the more than 13 thousand hits. Almost everything fell into one of two categories, buy his stuff or here is my bias opinion. Of course the later contained pro and anti, but only two that were neutral with the primary purpose of providing unbiased information.

I was disappointed to see no scientific credentials.
I found this interesting note about the Islamic Research Foundation
Apart from propagation of religious beliefs, it is not clear what research this foundation has done.
I read a posting on “Dr. Zakir Naik explanations & Debates”, which has one of his writings.
“CONGRATULATING AN ATHEIST” I found his “LOGICAL CONCEPT OF GOD” never really answered the question. The “Pen Book” analogy I thought was just plain silly.
“QUR’AN AND MODERN SCIENCE” with the “If a new object or a machine” has nothing to do with science and none of his arguments would hold any credibility to a non-believer. He falls 9 yards short of “to prove the existence of God and simultaneously prove that the Qur’an is a revelation of God.” You would first have to believe that the Qur’an is a revelation of God before you accept any of it. Nothing but classical circular logic.
“THEORY OF PROBABILITY” more empty stuff. I don’t care how many dice you have. When I look out and see every one of them are sixes. That is not proof that you didn’t throw them.
“CREATOR IS THE AUTHOR OF THE QUR’AN”, again arguments that only a believer will accept.

I found his work as theist propaganda for theists. I don’t have any problem with that and there is nothing wrong with propaganda. It is simply spreading your point of view. It just doesn’t have any scientific value. I would venture a guess that at least 99% of the non-believers would find anything he states as creditable science.
It all falls under the category of “Preaching to the Choir”.

As far as the video was concerned, it was much of the same old stuff.
If A not = B and B not = C then A = C. So many claims that just don’t hold water. There is no way they would have been a ware of what many knew and things that any butcher would have seen.

It is good for “preaching to the choir’ but It just isn’t credible science.

So back to my original request.

Give me on scientific fact about god.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

wilberhum why dont you judge for yourself? Check out the video, i feel the opinion you have posted seems biased because they are passing judgement. Do they have proof that IRF have done no research. i actually have seen proof that they have done EXTENSIVE research due to the ammount they know!

so please check it out.

eace:

 

[wilberhum]

Abd'Majid
why dont you judge for yourself? Check out the video, i feel the opinion you have posted seems biased because they are passing judgement.

I did judge for my self. As I said “As far as the video was concerned, it was much of the same old stuff”.

Do they have proof that IRF have done no research.
About:
Apart from propagation of religious beliefs, it is not clear what research this foundation has done.

I see no indication that they stated any kind of “proof”. It sounds to me like they are saying they have not seen anything but propaganda and imply that they have not done any extensive research.
I just thought it was an interesting opinion.

Now just think about it. If someone could prove god, it would be in press headlines all over the world and athleticism would almost become extent and if it was truly proven that the Quran was from god, almost ever theist in the world would become Muslim.
The fact is that he only has an argument and there is no proof.

If I’m so wrong, why haven’t I seen a scientific fact about god?

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

no-one believes what other people witness/believe/experience when it comes to religion.
Theres many proofs many people have had but most people out of ignorance reject them.
well wilberhum, looks like you cant understand the proof without reading the quran. thats a shame.

 

[wilberhum]

Abd'Majid
no-one believes what other people witness/believe/experience when it comes to religion.

Well your half right, that’s a start. When it comes to articles of faith, I believe that you believe. When it comes to the rest of life I think one person is as credible as the next, at least until they show me that I have made a judgment error. When someone says they have proof and don’t provide any, I modify my judgement.
I take no issue with your religious beliefs, as long as you state that it is a religious belief. But I do take issue when some one clames proof when there is none.

Theres many proofs many people have had but most people out of ignorance reject them.

About god, there is no proof to reject. It is ignorance to accept an argument as proof.

well wilberhum, looks like you cant understand the proof without reading the quran. thats a shame.

When I want to understand the definition of “Proof”, I go to a dictionary.

You keep telling me I’m wrong instead of giving me a “Scientific Fact about god”. Why is that? The answer is simple, there is no “Proof” there is only belief.

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

The answer is simple, there is no “Proof” there is only belief.

I've found myself saying this again and again on this forum. For some reason, Muslims believe that the existence of god (and, by extension, the Islamic religion) can somehow be proven. As far as I know, this is the only mainstream religion whose adherents make this claim.

This leads me to suspect that Muslims must use a different definition of the word 'proof' to the rest of humanity, since it is obvious that if any proof of god's existence did actually exist, then everyone alive would be a theist, just as everyone alive believes that black is not white.

Peace

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

You keep telling me I’m wrong instead of giving me a “Scientific Fact about god”. Why is that? The answer is simple, there is no “Proof” there is only belief.

if your sincere in what you ask then please read the arabic quran and try to understand its meanings, read many different translations it might help. Trust me you'll find your proof !

 

[wilberhum]

Abd'Majid
Does the difference between faith and fact totally escape you?

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Abd'Majid
Does the difference between faith and fact totally escape you?

ok let me try to explain it,
to me ok "to me", the fact that the prophet (saws) showed signs from 1400 years ago of whats recently being discovered and for every sign to be true is a clear proof, an evidence.

So i would call that a fact wouldnt you?

 

[wilberhum]

ok let me try to explain it,
to me ok "to me", the fact that the prophet (saws) showed signs from 1400 years ago of whats recently being discovered and for every sign to be true is a clear proof, an evidence.

So i would call that a fact wouldnt you?

No! Many of those things were known. Many twist what is written that it is a total distortion. I have never read any “Scientific” statement that has not been debunked. Also I find it a sad thing to try to turn an “Holy Book” into a “Science Book”.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

No! Many of those things were known. Many twist what is written that it is a total distortion. I have never read any “Scientific” statement that has not been debunked. Also I find it a sad thing to try to turn an “Holy Book” into a “Science Book”.

*sigh* well i guess to you is your way and to me is mine.

 

[wilberhum]

*sigh* well i guess to you is your way and to me is mine.

But what about that Scientific Fact?
This thread is about "GOD in the eyes of Science". It isn't about the Quran or anything else. It is about god and science. No one has yet even come close to giving a scientific fact about god. I think this confirms this.

[MAD]Give me one scientific fact about god.[/MAD]

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

[MAD]Give me one scientific fact about god.[/MAD]

How about this?: it can be established with a high degree of certainty that millions of people throughout history have believed in the existence of god despite there being no evidence to support this view.

Peace

 

[wilberhum]

Greetings,


How about this?: it can be established with a high degree of certainty that millions of people throughout history have believed in the existence of god despite there being no evidence to support this view.

Peace

You win the prize, "with a high degree of certainty".

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

hmm, so none of you have experienced anything in life to make you slightly lean towards "just perhaps, maybe there is a God"?

just out of curiosity?

 

[wilberhum]

hmm, so none of you have experienced anything in life to make you slightly lean towards "just perhaps, maybe there is a God"?

just out of curiosity?

I believe in god. I also realize that if a matter of belief. But when it comes to Proof, there is none. You see, I understand the difference between faith and fact.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

I believe in god. I also realize that if a matter of belief. But when it comes to Proof, there is none. You see, I understand the difference between faith and fact.

I apologise, i guess i just feel that the existence of God is just too clear. Forgive me but i find its both faith and fact.

I realise that facts always must be backed up by proof. But the Quran is proof enough for me.


eace:

 

[wilberhum]

I apologise, i guess i just feel that the existence of God is just too clear. Forgive me but i find its both faith and fact.

I realise that facts always must be backed up by proof. But the Quran is proof enough for me.


eace:

Please, no apology. We are all just communicating our thoughts and beliefs.
But your Quran and proof are a matter of faith. I respect that. But still it is a matter of faith.

 

[iLL_LeaT]

The problem with facts about these days is that they only have to do with what we consider reality. Anything outside of that realm is considered not factual or scientific, it is philosophy at best.

Let me take a second to define what I think reality is. Reality is only what we know about existence. The idea of reality is ever expanding. As science evolves, and testing gets more refined and advanced, we discover and figure out new information to fit in our idea of reality. The day could come that the idea of reality stretches to the point of an afterlife and the existence of God, but as of now it does not.

Isaac Newton made a huge mistake in trying to prove the existence of God with science. Since then, science has sort of been looked at as proof that there is no God. However, if you can only test for functions of this universe, how can you possibly say there is or isn’t something outside of what humans consider reality?

I too think there is a God, but I know that is not a fact. Just because it is not a fact does not mean it is not true. And in that, there is hope!

Bottom line, there are no know facts outside of our reality.
Anything is possible. spooky!