Non-Practising Muslims

[khalid zaheer]

lol read first page or 2 of this thread bro i think i explained it to someone, that's exactly not the case...

Assalaam o alaikum

I could not understand what you try to explain there. please explain in a little easy words.

Allah hafiz

 

[lolwatever]

the easy answer is yes as long as they fulfill the basic requirements.

E.g. The 5 pillars of Islam (prayer, fasting, zakat, Hajj) and they don't do things that take them out of the religion, for example.. mock the prophet or his hadith, or fight a Muslim who is trying to advise people to do good etc.

As long as he does that then he is a Muslim in the sight of Allah, if he does bad things like stealing or swearing then he is a sinner, but that doesn't amke him non Muslim.

hope that helps

salamz

 

[searchingsoul]

the easy answer is yes as long as they fulfill the basic requirements.

E.g. The 5 pillars of Islam (prayer, fasting, zakat, Hajj) and they don't do things that take them out of the religion, for example.. mock the prophet or his hadith, or fight a Muslim who is trying to advise people to do good etc.

As long as he does that then he is a Muslim in the sight of Allah, if he does bad things like stealing or swearing then he is a sinner, but that doesn't amke him non Muslim.

hope that helps

salamz

So it doesn't make him a kafir but he still needs punished, by death even?

 

[lolwatever]

Heya searchign soul,

doesn't amke who a kafir? u mean someone who doesn't pray? i said above that prayer (amongst the other pillars) is minimum requirement for someone to be considered Muslim. If he doesn't pray, he's an apostate who is worthy of punishment.

hope that helps
all the best

 

[searchingsoul]

Heya searchign soul,

doesn't amke who a kafir? u mean someone who doesn't pray? i said above that prayer (amongst the other pillars) is minimum requirement for someone to be considered Muslim. If he doesn't pray, he's an apostate who is worthy of punishment.

hope that helps
all the best

Yes, I am referring to a non praying muslim. Is a non praying muslim kafir or just apostate?

 

[lolwatever]

apostate is someone who jumps in and then out of religion.

A 'normal' Kafir is someoen who wasn't Muslim in the first place... so basically "every apostate is a kafir, but not every kafir is an apostate" ... kidna like "every male is a human, but not every human is a male"

so.. if a Muslim decided to stop praying, then he's an apostate.

 

[khalid zaheer]

E.g. The 5 pillars of Islam (prayer, fasting, zakat, Hajj) and they don't do things that take them out of the religion, for example.. mock the prophet or his hadith, or fight a Muslim who is trying to advise people to do good etc.

Assalaam o alaikum

First, you described four pillers instead of five, which is fifth? Second, fasting, zaka and hajj is for those who are able to bear them. When a person is ill or not able to fasting due to any cause then how he will fullfil the requirment. zaka and hajj for the rich persons how a poor can fullfil this requirment.

And the last piller is prayer, it is for every one in any condition. (certainly some relaxations are there too) Means if a person don't offer the prayer then he could not be called muslim. if this logic is right then I think most of the persons of the muslim community not able to called muslim. what you say?


Allah hafiz

 

[lolwatever]

^^ salams bro, lol what i mentioned there was aboslute brevity i treid to keep it simple.

yes you're right, zakat is for those who qualify to pay it (those who are able), same goes for Hajj.. the 1st pillar that i didnt mention because it was too obvious "Shahadah" (testimony that there is no diety worthy of worship except allah and Muhammad is his messenger).

As for your final question, it's not about quantity, its about quality, just because the entire Muslim word drinks alchohol or commits adultery or steals doesn't remove the ruling that they're all villains and sinners.

same goes for prayer, as harsh as it may sound, but it's just a constant in nature. just like the way protons will always be 1833.xxx times more massive than electrons regardless of what people think. Just becasue the majority of the world thought that protons weighed same as electrons doesn't change the fact does it?

all the best
salamzzzz

 

[searchingsoul]

And the last piller is prayer, it is for every one in any condition. (certainly some relaxations are there too) Means if a person don't offer the prayer then he could not be called muslim. if this logic is right then I think most of the persons of the muslim community not able to called muslim. what you say?


Allah hafiz

I think you're right. If lack of prayer renders one non muslim, I doubt that there's a lot of muslims in the world.

It's not to the advantage of the muslim to kill all the non praying apostates. Other than being sad it really wouldn't bother non muslims if all the muslim apostates were killed. The non muslims would bounce back and forget about it after a while. But don't you hate to think what death to all apostates would do to the ummah? Think how long it would take to build the numbers back up?

This is why I think prescribing death for apostates is outdated and will never be acceptable to most muslims. Muslims are either too greedy to risk reducing the ummah or muslims simply no longer believe in this practice.

 

[- Qatada -]

Hi searchingsoul.


Islam doesn't need a huge number to show that we follow islam, or to show that islam is the true faith.

Just go back to the times of Abu Bakr (may Allaah Almighty be pleased with him) - there was a small minority of muslims back then [only the arabian peninsula] - yet he fought against all the apostates. He knew that this was going to be a setback, because islam is a religion for mankind. Yet he still went ahead with the plan, because islam is more about submitting ones self, and it has nothing to do with how much people follow it, but it depends on how much one follows it.


Allaah Almighty knows best.


Peace.

 

[searchingsoul]

Hi searchingsoul.


Islam doesn't need a huge number to show that we follow islam, or to show that islam is the true faith.

Just go back to the times of Abu Bakr (may Allaah Almighty be pleased with him) - there was a small minority of muslims back then [only the arabian peninsula] - yet he fought against all the apostates. He knew that this was going to be a setback, because islam is a religion for mankind. Yet he still went ahead with the plan, because islam is more about submitting ones self, and it has nothing to do with how much people follow it, but it depends on how much one follows it.


Allaah Almighty knows best.


Peace.

Thanks Fi_Sabilillah. I wasn't aware that Abu Bakr participated in a form of apostate cleansing. I'll look into this more. But you're right. If a person thinks that they possess the true meaning of religion they don't need a lot of followers. What matters is what each person believes.

 

[snakelegs]

:salamext:

.... or greet them with salaam, because there is no greeting of peace for a kaafir. ​

many muslims greet me with salaam, knowing i am a kafir, and i greet them with peace. are they sinning by doing so? sorry to go slightly off topic, but i've never read this before.​

 

[lolwatever]

^^ they definately aren't kafirs for doing that, that's for sure. but i don't know about the ruling.

how about giv them dawah lol :giggling:

sorry not much of help there.

tc
all the best

 

[snakelegs]

^^ they definately aren't kafirs for doing that, that's for sure. but i don't know about the ruling.

how about giv them dawah lol :giggling:

sorry not much of help there.

tc
all the best

:giggling: :giggling: :giggling: :giggling: :giggling:
a kafir giving a muslim dawa??!!

 

[lolwatever]

lol joking.. well actually believe it or not, it's a commendable thing.. a non Muslim who gives dawah is actually encouraged to do so in Islam.. any act that brings them closer to Islam is actually encouraged.

just like the way for example.. if a jew decides to 'enhance' his religion by acceptin Jesus as a messenger, he is encouraged to do that even though he reamins a non Muslim but he's still better off somewhat in this life and hereafter.

anyways yeh hehe... sounds funny tho lol

take care!

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

On greeting non-muslims:
http://islamtoday.com/show_detail_section.cfm?q_id=473&main_cat_id=22

Let's try to keep this on-topic though, please.

 

[Malaikah]

It's not to the advantage of the muslim to kill all the non praying apostates. Other than being sad it really wouldn't bother non muslims if all the muslim apostates were killed. The non muslims would bounce back and forget about it after a while. But don't you hate to think what death to all apostates would do to the ummah? Think how long it would take to build the numbers back up?

what? first of all, no one is killing anyone- there is no islamic state, so that isnt going to happen. secondly, the person gets warnings, even if they just pretend to pray, and we even know they are just pretending so they dont get punished, they arent killed.

 

[Quruxbadaan]

why the heck are numbers soo important to serching

Yall need to understand something

Allahs laws are the haqq

no other laws are going to be acceptable on the day of judgment i dont care what anybody has to say

MUSLIMS NEED TO STOP being PASSIVE and have the GUTS to TELL IT LIKE IT iS

Islam is the submission to ALLAH how can you not submit to ALLAH and still call yourself muslim

Wallahi if i were the only one to say im muslim it wouldnt make a difference in the world

if there were only two of us it wouldnt change a thing

Allah dose not need us we need him

I dont care if all the "muslims" in america agree to this and that and their views are different

their views mean absolutley nothing Allahs veiws are what matter

Im disgusted with alot of the muslims here on this forum they make me sick to my stomach

Im muslim for Allah and he allone do i prostrate to

forget what the rest have to say

sinners and the evil doers will pay for their transgression

And he the one worthy of glorification knows best

Maa salaama

 

[lolwatever]

^^ well said sis :thumbs_up

The prophet said: "Islam began strange and shall return to be strange, so glad tidings to the strangers"..

searchingsoul ur welcome to contribute....

salam

 

[searchingsoul]

People with your views are an injustice to all other muslims and mankind. You are sick. I truly support the entire annihilation of all people with your mentality. The deaths of many innocent muslims (my family included) would be justifiable in order to rid the world of people with your mentality. You are threat to mankind, and you have perverted the word of God to serve your egocentric agendas.

I find it amazing that many of you don't understand why the rest of society treats you as garbage. It is because YOU have earned the title of "garbage". Your blood is cheap because YOU have made it cheap.

Face the facts, the majority of your Ummah despises you as much as non-muslims. Don't kid yourselves in believing that you will be protected by other muslims. They don't give a **** about people like you. You want proof? The Palestinians are proof.

Since you're unwilling to conduct yourselves as humane individuals within the 21st century, I'm afraid that you will have to accept that your futures are grim.

You can defend yourselves with your insane dogma but your words fall upon deaf ears. Most Muslims and non-muslims would rather burn in hell than frolick in jannah with you. You guys are a world wide joke.