What are "Western values?"

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Dahir

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Simple Question - what are Western values?

Seems we all have a take on Western values, the West says we should all value their way of life, which I have my entire life. But what is it they want us to value, and is it good?

What are Western values? An illusion. What is the illusion? A play on words.

The West says we should value globalism, but what is globalism? A code word for imperialism.

The West says we should value liberalism, but what do they mean by "liberalism?" A code word for sodomy and cheap liquor.

The West says we should value freedom, but what exactly is "Western Freedom?" It is freedom of sin, yes! Freedom to drink liquor openly, freedom to exploit copulation (porn), freedom to express oneself publicly (dress demonic, be nude, kiss in public - with kids around).

Maybe I'm a bit biased against Western values and maybe I'm "old-school" and I value Eastern stuff, like sentimental values of family and faith, the mind, all the good old stuff we no longer need, want, or value!

What's your take on Western values? If you have your own, more educated idea of Western values, add to my ideas or prove me dead wrong. Any thoughts are welcome, even "publicly espressive" ones. :D
 
Western values? I can't answer for all of the West, but if you are talking specifically about American values the thing I think of is personal liberty. Yes, the freedom to sin if that is what you want, but also the freedom to start a business, the freedom to say what I want about my own government, access to educational opportunity, etc, I could go on and on. Many of these values have been adopted across the globe. Some people can't handle a truly free and "liberal" society, because of the decay of "traditional" values. Christians have been facing this traditional decay for a century now. It is a mixed bag. Traditional "American" values that existed for so long only exist in the South now, to any great degree. I don't think American administrations expect countries to become as "liberal" as the U.S., the important aspect is democracy.
 
Dahir said:
What are Western values?
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They were a nice idea... like ancient Babylon. It was intended to resolve the arguments that were caused by tribal differences in tradition. We decided that "truth' was dependant on individual interpretation so we wouldn't decide among the tribes, who had the 'real' religion. We would simply allow everyone to worship in whatever tradition they chose to follow, leaving the issue of faith up to the people.

You see, the Judeans viewed the Babylonian exile as a punishment from God, but that wasn't true. It was never a punishment. It was a favor. When they lived in Babylon, they didn't cease to be Jews. They weren't deprived of their heritage. They could be who ever they wanted to be... but it was entirely up to them. Somewhere during their stay in Israel, they forgot that and became addicted to a stupid rock - as if that rock had the power to decide who they were. They faught amongst themselves over it, and were cut from it - so they could learn faith, which is carried in one's heart and nowhere else.

America took that ideal to a whole new level. The idea was to create a land that anyone could live in. We have all sorts of people here, from all kinds of different faiths and traditions, but they decide who they are... no one else decides that for them. All of the people here decide and define themselves. That's how this country was started. Many came here to avoid religious persecution elsewhere.

It was a wonderful idea - but it fell apart. Too much freedom is a bad thing. At times, freedom itself can cause conflicts, such as the case with the necrophiles in New Orleans. It's true we should allow others to worship as they see fit, but that doesn't give one group the right to disrespect another. The rituals of the necrophiles require a corpse and those are usually obtained by invading cemeteries and desecrating graves that do not belong to them. In cases like this, how do you rule? You have no choice but to deny them religious freedom because that freedom interferes with the rights of others. So they scream that freedom is fake and it's just an illusion. It's a difficult balancing act, but I did feel at one time, we were on the right track.

Other places brought me sorrow. Places like Jerusalem, where hundreds of thousands have died in wars over a stupid rock! So and so did this on the rock. So and so did that on the rock. It's witchcraft. No one should die because of a... rock! The Jews go nuts over the remains of an old wall there, but it wasn't the rocks that made their Temple - it was their laws that decided how that Temple would be built and yet, they'd throw their laws out the window for a pile of stones and then lecture others on Avodah Zarah. Ha!

In America, when people follow a religion it's because that religion actually matters to them. They feel it and it comes from inside them. Here, I can talk to God if I want, and people can think I'm crazy, but so long as I'm not causing harm to others, they can't do a thing to stop me. I can learn whatever language I choose to, follow what ever tradition moves me, and write what ever I wish. In my corner of the world 911 was just a question Osama bin Laden once asked. He wanted me to answer it. That question was: How does it feel? It was a fair question, and it's my country's fault it had to be asked the way it was... so many had asked us before but we didn't listen. The words I write are mine and no one, here, can take that right away. Bush can try, but I'll just tell him what he told Zarqawi: Bring it on!

The western ideal was working... it's just not being upheld very well these days. Our governments are allowing us freedom while denying other countries that same right. None of us working class realised that was happening. We were being distracted by a disgusting array of problems on the home front. Things that hurt us like the cost of housing going through the roof, the fact that companies can deny us health-care or the fact that even though we paid, all of our lives, towards our retirement, the money will be gone before we reach retirement age. I realize now that these things were meant to distract us. An evil government has taken power and seeks to destroy what this country once stood for.

Western Values used to mean... for the people.

Ninth Scribe
 
I think America is greatest country in the world, just imagine if japan or china was in Americas shoes right now, i think the world would be a very different place and probably for the worse.

America is powerful but promoter of peace and democracy and never uses it's powers unless for the good of mankind.

I love you George Bush, and keep up the good job
 
America the land of the brave and home of free.
78401714
 
western values used to be about God king and country. also family values. very similar to islamic values. however now its become perverted.
 
mujahedeen2087 said:
western values used to be about God king and country. also family values. very similar to islamic values. however now its become perverted.
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Maybe "Western" values, but American values are about God and country, the king or queen could jump off a cliff...:)
 
I would say "Western values" are a mix between Christian values and liberalism. Christian values are still valued, but at the same time the idea is not to allow the state to outlaw those actions that are not harmful to others. Individual freedom is essential. If someone wants to work in the porn industry, and someone else wants to watch it than that really isn't the business of the state. The same goes for adultry. Western values don't say 'adultry is good', but they do say that it is not the for the state to intervene in the personal lives of two consenting adults. This level of freedom leads to excesses, but also creates a vibrant and diverse society, with many different social groups with different approaches in the pursuit to happiness. For example, one can become a nun, a materialist, or embrace Eastern spirituality, it is up to the individual to decide.

In reality I don't believe that Western and Islamic values are very different. How to enforce them is different though IMHO.

It appears to me that Muslims want a very strong state, one that enforces the religious laws. The government taking the place of God, a sub-God if you will, that does the judging while people are still in this life.
 
KAding said:
I would say "Western values" are a mix between Christian values and liberalism. Christian values are still valued, but at the same time the idea is not to allow the state to outlaw those actions that are not harmful to others. Individual freedom is essential. If someone wants to work in the porn industry, and someone else wants to watch it than that really isn't the business of the state. The same goes for adultry. Western values don't say 'adultry is good', but they do say that it is not the for the state to intervene in the personal lives of two consenting adults. This level of freedom leads to excesses, but also creates a vibrant and diverse society, with many different social groups with different approaches in the pursuit to happiness. For example, one can become a nun, a materialist, or embrace Eastern spirituality, it is up to the individual to decide.

In reality I don't believe that Western and Islamic values are very different. How to enforce them is different though IMHO.

It appears to me that Muslims want a very strong state, one that enforces the religious laws. The government taking the place of God, a sub-God if you will, that does the judging while people are still in this life.
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I agree with these statements. It is a mixed bag of good and bad, but a person's faith and the way they live their life is still up to them.
 
KAding said:
It appears to me that Muslims want a very strong state, one that enforces the religious laws.
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Even secular people have laws. For example, you steal, their is a punishment. You kill, their is a punishment. Not alot of people in the world believe in anarchy. So almost everyone agrees on the neccessity of law and order. The differences in Islam, is that laws come from God, not some people, and the punishments and enforcements are from God. We trust his judgement and not the judgement of ignorant people.

Also the judges must judge with full knowledge - and do so according to revelation - not their whims. The Messenger (saw) judged by means God makes him see, judge with justice according to what God revealed, as shia I believe this continued to his successors, and the scholars should judge according to the way adopted by the Messenger (pbuh) and his successors (as).

No one has the right according to Islam, to judge according to his own opinion and judgement, and no laws pertaining to society can be formulated from other then revelation.

We all follow law and order and judgements. The diffrence between us and the west, is that we believe in God's laws, order, and judgemetns, and not some opinions of some people.
 
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salaam!

"I think America is greatest country in the world, just imagine if japan or china was in Americas shoes right now, i think the world would be a very different place and probably for the worse.

America is powerful but promoter of peace and democracy and never uses it's powers unless for the good of mankind.

I love you George Bush, and keep up the good job"?????????????????????????:grumbling

so whta have they been promoting???? peace???? democracy????? ohh they did a good job in vietnam! they did a good job in south america!!!! it doesent matter where they go.... they destroy everything....... but´yeahhh we love ya bush
 
nennar said:
salaam!

"I think America is greatest country in the world, just imagine if japan or china was in Americas shoes right now, i think the world would be a very different place and probably for the worse.

America is powerful but promoter of peace and democracy and never uses it's powers unless for the good of mankind.

I love you George Bush, and keep up the good job"?????????????????????????:grumbling

so whta have they been promoting???? peace???? democracy????? ohh they did a good job in vietnam! they did a good job in south america!!!! it doesent matter where they go.... they destroy everything....... but´yeahhh we love ya bush
Click to expand...

yes america is the strongest nation on earth right now. one of the most advanced. and a lot of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
but america is not the most moral.
 
yes i think he was to! i am not saying that everything in america is bad!!!! denmark to is not a country of true values.....
 
america is the only nation i would want to live in at this time. i know it is corrupted but other nations dont look to great either. i would rather live in the true islamic state.
 
I believe iran is closest to the ideal Islamic state - but i believe a full true Islamic state can be only be implented by an infallible which I believe is Imam Mahdi (as).

They (reference to Iranian People) managed to bring that system (Monarchy) to its knees and create a government of the people which was based on Islamic tenets and spiritual principles. Its (reference to the government) actions are relatively Islamic. Our spirit is Islamic. I cannot say that our actions are totally Islamic. They are relatively Islamic and, God willing, they will have to become more and more Islamic every day. They brought such a state to power.

Ayatollah Khamenei (ha)
 

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