....jessica simpson and natalie imbruglia
No comparison there Natalie gets my vote. But what is this whole poll about do we think that Israel is like Hitler.. i think its impossible to compare the both really.....
Israel = Hitler and even worse
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No comparison there Natalie gets my vote. But what is this whole poll about do we think that Israel is like Hitler.. i think its impossible to compare the both really.....
SirZubair
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I agree with you. (oh, and i also agree about the Nat imbruglia part
)Come on people, don't let your emotions get the best of you.
And please, spare me the "why are you defending the non-muslims ! defend your brothers!" crap.
I will stand up for the truth, with my fellow muslims or Without my fellow muslims.
apologies accepted Habib...
you disagree..? that's fine.. this is what we call freedom of speech.
scentsofjannah
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i hope you read my posts above..Israel encouraged the arabs to stay? what did Ben Gurion your first president say?..he said 'drive the arabs out'
but its cool if you choose to ignore..the history books are out there and ive quoted from them
scentsofjannah
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google chinese jews..believe me there are such a people as CHINESE JEWS..
and these jews want the whole world to think all of them are the descendants of the ancient Israelites.
how is a blonde haired blueeyed pasty skinned european a direct descendant of the ancient Israelites..is beyond me
truth is this..many people throughout the world who were practioners of polythiestic and pagan religions became attracted to the strict monotheism of Judaism..hence they converted to it..this explains the phenomenon of Chinese jews, european jews, South Indian jews etc..these people are the direct descendants of those converts to Judaism.
its strange that jews today say no one converted to Judaism..so im asking Lavikor this..do you deny that many people inside Isrel who call themselves jews maybe the descendants of converts to Judaism...do you deny that people converted to this religion?
and these jews want the whole world to think all of them are the descendants of the ancient Israelites.
how is a blonde haired blueeyed pasty skinned european a direct descendant of the ancient Israelites..is beyond me
truth is this..many people throughout the world who were practioners of polythiestic and pagan religions became attracted to the strict monotheism of Judaism..hence they converted to it..this explains the phenomenon of Chinese jews, european jews, South Indian jews etc..these people are the direct descendants of those converts to Judaism.
its strange that jews today say no one converted to Judaism..so im asking Lavikor this..do you deny that many people inside Isrel who call themselves jews maybe the descendants of converts to Judaism...do you deny that people converted to this religion?
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AvarAllahNoor
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Wish people would learn to write in a proper manner! :rollseyes
Hitler was out to create a whole new race. Jews are not, if Palestine accepted a jewish state all this would never occur! I don't see why they don't accept it, do you? It's only one jewish state in the whole universe, muslims have over 60 states all over the world, why another one?? Accept waht you have or move to Egypt or something!
scentsofjannah
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Was Arab opposition to the arrival of the Zionists based on inherent anti-Semitism or a real sense of danger to their community?
"The aim of the [Jewish National] Fund was ‘to redeem the land of Palestine as the inalienable possession of the Jewish people’…As early as 1981, Zionist leader Ahd Ha`am wrote that the Arabs ‘ understand very well what we are doing and what we are aiming at’ …[Theodor Herz, the founder of Zionism stated]’we shall try to spirit the penniless [Arab] population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our own country…Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly’… at various locations in northern Palestine Arab farmers to move from land the Fund purchased from absentee owners, and the Turkish authorities, at the Fund’s request, evicted them … The indigenous Jews of Palestine also reacted negatively to Zionism.They did not see the need for a Jewish state in Palestine and id not want to exacerbate relations with the Arabs.
John Quigley, "Palestine and Israel:
A challenge to Justice."
Inherent anti –Semitism? – Continued
"Before the 20th century, most Jews in Palestine belonged to the old Yishuv, or community, that had settled more for religious than political reasons. There was little if any conflict between them and the Arab population. Tensions began after the first Zionist settlers arrived in the 1880`s…when [they] purchased land from absentee Arab owners, leading to dispossession of the peasants who cultivated it.
Don Pertz, "The Arab-Israel Dispute."Jewish attitude towards Arabs upon reaching Palestine
"Serfs they (the Jews) were in the lands of the Diaspora, and suddenly they find themselves in freedom [in Palestine]; and this change has awakened in them an inclination to despotism. They treat the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, deprive them of their rights, offend them without cause, and even boast of these deeds; and nobody among us opposes this despicable and dangerous inclination."
Zionist writer Ahad Ha`am, "Proposals for Arab-Jewish Cooperation
"An article by Yitzhak Epstein, published in Hashiloah in 1907… called for a new Zionist policy towards the Arabs after 30 years of settlement activity…Like Ahad-Ha`am in 1891, Epstein claims that no good land is vacant, so Jewish settlement meant Arab dispossession …Epstein `s solution to the problem, so that a new ‘Jewish Question’ may be avoided, is the creation of a bi-national, non-exclusive program of settlement and development. Purchasing land should not involve the dispossession of poor sharecroppers. It should mean creating a joint farming community, where the Arabs will enjoy modern technology. Schools, hospitals and libraries should be non-exclusivist and education bilingual… The vision of the non-exclusivist, peaceful cooperation to replace the practice of dispossession found few takers. Epstein was maligned and scorned for his faintheartedness."
Israeli author, Benjamin Beit- Hallahmi,
"Original Sins".
"The aim of the [Jewish National] Fund was ‘to redeem the land of Palestine as the inalienable possession of the Jewish people’…As early as 1981, Zionist leader Ahd Ha`am wrote that the Arabs ‘ understand very well what we are doing and what we are aiming at’ …[Theodor Herz, the founder of Zionism stated]’we shall try to spirit the penniless [Arab] population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our own country…Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly’… at various locations in northern Palestine Arab farmers to move from land the Fund purchased from absentee owners, and the Turkish authorities, at the Fund’s request, evicted them … The indigenous Jews of Palestine also reacted negatively to Zionism.They did not see the need for a Jewish state in Palestine and id not want to exacerbate relations with the Arabs.
John Quigley, "Palestine and Israel:
A challenge to Justice."
Inherent anti –Semitism? – Continued
"Before the 20th century, most Jews in Palestine belonged to the old Yishuv, or community, that had settled more for religious than political reasons. There was little if any conflict between them and the Arab population. Tensions began after the first Zionist settlers arrived in the 1880`s…when [they] purchased land from absentee Arab owners, leading to dispossession of the peasants who cultivated it.
Don Pertz, "The Arab-Israel Dispute."Jewish attitude towards Arabs upon reaching Palestine
"Serfs they (the Jews) were in the lands of the Diaspora, and suddenly they find themselves in freedom [in Palestine]; and this change has awakened in them an inclination to despotism. They treat the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, deprive them of their rights, offend them without cause, and even boast of these deeds; and nobody among us opposes this despicable and dangerous inclination."
Zionist writer Ahad Ha`am, "Proposals for Arab-Jewish Cooperation
"An article by Yitzhak Epstein, published in Hashiloah in 1907… called for a new Zionist policy towards the Arabs after 30 years of settlement activity…Like Ahad-Ha`am in 1891, Epstein claims that no good land is vacant, so Jewish settlement meant Arab dispossession …Epstein `s solution to the problem, so that a new ‘Jewish Question’ may be avoided, is the creation of a bi-national, non-exclusive program of settlement and development. Purchasing land should not involve the dispossession of poor sharecroppers. It should mean creating a joint farming community, where the Arabs will enjoy modern technology. Schools, hospitals and libraries should be non-exclusivist and education bilingual… The vision of the non-exclusivist, peaceful cooperation to replace the practice of dispossession found few takers. Epstein was maligned and scorned for his faintheartedness."
Israeli author, Benjamin Beit- Hallahmi,
"Original Sins".
scentsofjannah
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Were the early Zionists planning on living side-by-side with the Arabs?
In 1919, the American King-crane Commission spent six weeks in Syria and Palestine, interviewing delegations and reading petitions. Their report stated,"The commissioners began their study of Zionism with minds predisposed in it favour… The fact came out repeatedly in the Commission’s conferences with Jewish representatives that the Zionists looked forward to practically complete dispossession of the present non- Jewish inhabitants of Palestine, by various forms of purchase…
"If [the] principle [of self-determination] is to rule, and so the wishes of Palestine’s population are to be decisive as to what is to be done with Palestine, then it is to be remembered that the non-Jewish population of Palestine – nearly nine-tenths of the whole- are emphatically against the entire Zionist program…To subject a people so minded to unlimited Jewish immigration, and to steady financial and social pressure to surrender the land, would be a gross violation of the principle just quoted…No British officers, consulted by the Commissioners, believed that the Zionist program could be carried out except by force of arms. The officers generally thought that a force of not less than fifty thousand soldiers would be required even to initiate the program. That of itself is evidence of a strong sense of the injustice of the Zionist program…The initial claim, often submitted by Zionist representatives, that they have a ‘right’ to Palestine based on occupation of two thousand years ago, can barely be seriously considered."
Quoted in "The Israel- Arab Reader",
ed. Laqueur and Rubin.
Arab resistance to Pre-Israeli Zionism
"In 1936-9, the Palestinian Arabs attempted a Nationalist revolt …David Ben-Gurion, eminently a realist, recognized its nature. In internal discussion, he noted that ‘in our political argument abroad, we minimize Arab opposition to us,’ but he urged, ‘let us not ignore the truth among ourselves.’ The truth was that ‘politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country, while we are still outside’… The revolt was crushed by the British, with considerable brutality."
Noam Chomsky, "The Fateful Triangle."
Were the Zionists prepared to settle for the territory granted in the 1947 partition?
"While the Yishuv`s leadership formally accepted the 1947 Partition Resolution, large sections of Israeli society- including…Ben Gurion- were opposed to or extremely unhappy with the partition and from early on viewed the war as an ideal opportunity to expand the new state’s borders beyond the UN-earmarked partition boundaries and at the expense of the Palestinians.
"Israeli Historian, Benny Morris,
in "Tikun", March/April 1998.
Public vs. private pronouncements on this question
‘In internal discussion in 1938,[David Ben-Gurion] stated that’ after we become a strong force, as a result of the creation of a state, we shall abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine… The state will only be a stage in the realization of Zionism and its task is to prepare the ground for our expansion into the whole of Palestine’… In 1948, Menahem Begin declared that: ‘The partition of the Homeland is illegal. It will never be recognized. The signature of institutions and individuals of the partition agreement is invalid. It will not bind the Jewish people. Jerusalem was and will forever be our capital. Eretz Israel (the Land of Israel) will be restored to the people of Israel. All of it. And forever.’ "
Noam Chomsky, "The Fateful Triangle"
Was Palestine the only, or even preferred, destination of Jews facing persecution when the Zionist movement started?
"The pogroms forced many Jews to leave Russia. Societies known as ‘Lovers of Zion,’ which were forerunners of the Zionist organization, convinced some of the frightened emigrants to go to Palestine. There, they argued, Jews would rebuild the ancient Jewish ‘Kingdom of David and Solomon’ Most Russian Jews ignored their appeal and fled to Europe and the United States. By 1900, almost a million Jews had settled in the United States alone."
"Our Roots Are Still Alive"
by The People Press Palestine Book Project.
Gandhi on the Palestine conflict – 1938
"Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French…What is going on in Palestine today cannot be justified by any moral code of conduct…If they [the Jews] must look to the Palestine of geography as their national home, it is wrong to enter it under the shadow of the British gun. A religious act cannot be performed with the aid of the bayonet or the bomb. They can settle in Palestine only by the goodwill of the Arabs…As it is, they are co-sharers with the British in despoiling a people who have done no wrong to them. I am not defending the Arab excesses. I wish they had chosen the way of non-violence in resisting what they rightly regard as an unacceptable encroachment upon their country. But according to the accepted canons of right and wrong, nothing can be said against the Arab resistance in the face of overwhelming odds."
Mahatma Gandhi quoted in
"A Land of Two Peoples"ed. Mendes-Flohr
The Deir Yassin Massacre of Palestine by Jewish Soldiers
"For the entire day of April 9, 1948,Irgun and LEHI soldiers carried out the slaughter in a cold and premeditated fashion…The attackers ‘lined men, women and children up against the walls and shot them,’…The ruthlessness of the attack on Deir Yassin shocked Jewish and world opinion alike, drove fear and panic into the Arab population, and led to the flight of unarmed civilians from their homes all over the country."
Israeli author, Simha Flapan, "The Birth Of Israel"
Was Deir Yassin the only act of this kind?
"By 1948, the Jew was able not only to ‘defend himself’ but to commit massive atrocities as well. Indeed, according to the former director of the Israeli army archives, ‘in almost every Arab village occupied by us during the War of Independence, acts were committed which are defined as war crimes, such as murders, massacres and rapes’…Uri Milstein, the authoritative Israeli military historian of the 1948 war, goes one step further, maintaining that ‘every skirmish ended in a massacre of Arabs’ "
Norman Finkelstein, "Image and Reality
of the Israel-Palestine Conflict."
quoted in Sami Hadawi,"BitterHarvest.[/U]
The origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict http://www.zmag.org/content/Mideast/jewsfjustice.cfm
In 1919, the American King-crane Commission spent six weeks in Syria and Palestine, interviewing delegations and reading petitions. Their report stated,"The commissioners began their study of Zionism with minds predisposed in it favour… The fact came out repeatedly in the Commission’s conferences with Jewish representatives that the Zionists looked forward to practically complete dispossession of the present non- Jewish inhabitants of Palestine, by various forms of purchase…
"If [the] principle [of self-determination] is to rule, and so the wishes of Palestine’s population are to be decisive as to what is to be done with Palestine, then it is to be remembered that the non-Jewish population of Palestine – nearly nine-tenths of the whole- are emphatically against the entire Zionist program…To subject a people so minded to unlimited Jewish immigration, and to steady financial and social pressure to surrender the land, would be a gross violation of the principle just quoted…No British officers, consulted by the Commissioners, believed that the Zionist program could be carried out except by force of arms. The officers generally thought that a force of not less than fifty thousand soldiers would be required even to initiate the program. That of itself is evidence of a strong sense of the injustice of the Zionist program…The initial claim, often submitted by Zionist representatives, that they have a ‘right’ to Palestine based on occupation of two thousand years ago, can barely be seriously considered."
Quoted in "The Israel- Arab Reader",
ed. Laqueur and Rubin.
Arab resistance to Pre-Israeli Zionism
"In 1936-9, the Palestinian Arabs attempted a Nationalist revolt …David Ben-Gurion, eminently a realist, recognized its nature. In internal discussion, he noted that ‘in our political argument abroad, we minimize Arab opposition to us,’ but he urged, ‘let us not ignore the truth among ourselves.’ The truth was that ‘politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country, while we are still outside’… The revolt was crushed by the British, with considerable brutality."
Noam Chomsky, "The Fateful Triangle."
Were the Zionists prepared to settle for the territory granted in the 1947 partition?
"While the Yishuv`s leadership formally accepted the 1947 Partition Resolution, large sections of Israeli society- including…Ben Gurion- were opposed to or extremely unhappy with the partition and from early on viewed the war as an ideal opportunity to expand the new state’s borders beyond the UN-earmarked partition boundaries and at the expense of the Palestinians.
"Israeli Historian, Benny Morris,
in "Tikun", March/April 1998.
Public vs. private pronouncements on this question
‘In internal discussion in 1938,[David Ben-Gurion] stated that’ after we become a strong force, as a result of the creation of a state, we shall abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine… The state will only be a stage in the realization of Zionism and its task is to prepare the ground for our expansion into the whole of Palestine’… In 1948, Menahem Begin declared that: ‘The partition of the Homeland is illegal. It will never be recognized. The signature of institutions and individuals of the partition agreement is invalid. It will not bind the Jewish people. Jerusalem was and will forever be our capital. Eretz Israel (the Land of Israel) will be restored to the people of Israel. All of it. And forever.’ "
Noam Chomsky, "The Fateful Triangle"
Was Palestine the only, or even preferred, destination of Jews facing persecution when the Zionist movement started?
"The pogroms forced many Jews to leave Russia. Societies known as ‘Lovers of Zion,’ which were forerunners of the Zionist organization, convinced some of the frightened emigrants to go to Palestine. There, they argued, Jews would rebuild the ancient Jewish ‘Kingdom of David and Solomon’ Most Russian Jews ignored their appeal and fled to Europe and the United States. By 1900, almost a million Jews had settled in the United States alone."
"Our Roots Are Still Alive"
by The People Press Palestine Book Project.
Gandhi on the Palestine conflict – 1938
"Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French…What is going on in Palestine today cannot be justified by any moral code of conduct…If they [the Jews] must look to the Palestine of geography as their national home, it is wrong to enter it under the shadow of the British gun. A religious act cannot be performed with the aid of the bayonet or the bomb. They can settle in Palestine only by the goodwill of the Arabs…As it is, they are co-sharers with the British in despoiling a people who have done no wrong to them. I am not defending the Arab excesses. I wish they had chosen the way of non-violence in resisting what they rightly regard as an unacceptable encroachment upon their country. But according to the accepted canons of right and wrong, nothing can be said against the Arab resistance in the face of overwhelming odds."
Mahatma Gandhi quoted in
"A Land of Two Peoples"ed. Mendes-Flohr
The Deir Yassin Massacre of Palestine by Jewish Soldiers
"For the entire day of April 9, 1948,Irgun and LEHI soldiers carried out the slaughter in a cold and premeditated fashion…The attackers ‘lined men, women and children up against the walls and shot them,’…The ruthlessness of the attack on Deir Yassin shocked Jewish and world opinion alike, drove fear and panic into the Arab population, and led to the flight of unarmed civilians from their homes all over the country."
Israeli author, Simha Flapan, "The Birth Of Israel"
Was Deir Yassin the only act of this kind?
"By 1948, the Jew was able not only to ‘defend himself’ but to commit massive atrocities as well. Indeed, according to the former director of the Israeli army archives, ‘in almost every Arab village occupied by us during the War of Independence, acts were committed which are defined as war crimes, such as murders, massacres and rapes’…Uri Milstein, the authoritative Israeli military historian of the 1948 war, goes one step further, maintaining that ‘every skirmish ended in a massacre of Arabs’ "
Norman Finkelstein, "Image and Reality
of the Israel-Palestine Conflict."
quoted in Sami Hadawi,"BitterHarvest.[/U]
The origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict http://www.zmag.org/content/Mideast/jewsfjustice.cfm
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I don't think LI's pro-Jihad posters would like to be compared to them at all!
(Although arguably Britney Spears has been working on her weapons of mass destruction, her vocals, for some time)
I think that LI needs to adopt Godwin's law which says that all threads end up talking about Hitler at which useful conversation ceases.
Actually there is a mildly strong case that the Chinese Jewish community at Kaifeng is an invention of Christian missionary misunderstandings and they are actually Muslims.
So you are saying you cannot be a direct descendent of the ancient Jews if your Grandfather married a Chinese girl or adopted a Chinese boy or converted a Chinese slave who then married into the family or who sister was raped by a Chinese man? Genes flow in all sorts of ways and if you thought about the Muslim equivalent - say Sayyids - there was Black descendents of Muhammed, Persian ones, Indian ones, Chinese ones too for all I know. There are certainly Malay one. Are you saying that these people are lying?
Besides which Jews accept converts too.
That is probably true for Moroccan and Ethiopian Jews. Maybe Yemeni Jews as well. But Chinese Jews claim to be descended from Jews who moved to China from the Middle East and have some records which suggest that may be true.
Jews do not say that. Conversion is tough but it is not impossible even for the Ultra-Orthodox.
scentsofjannah
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that is possible i donot deny that..i dont see how though an adopted chinese boy upon adoption automatically becomes 'jewish' or the 'descendant of the anicent Israelites..hes chinese.
the other ignored possibility is that they are the descendants of converts..you will not here many jews tell you this...i did talk to a jewish person and after much discussion he did admit that some members of his family donot even remotely look like jews and that they and their ancestors are purely goyim..ie nonjew
:heated: (shudders at the thought of "Baby hit me one more time")
This thread started with Hitler, yet i still dont see where the comparison is because Hitler was an individual and yet Israel is a country...
btw i was comparing Israel and Hitler not the LI Pro-Jihad Posters...dont get me in trouble ok Heigou!:rollseyes
Abdul-Raouf
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[BANANA]my answer is agree[/BANANA] [MOUSE]israel = worser than hitler[/MOUSE]
He would become a Chinese Jew. What is odd about that? Why don't you see it? A Jewish convert is a Jew like any other Jew. Notice that Chinese Muslims (Hui) have done exactly the same. They arrived as Persians and Turks. They are now Chinese.
Few Jews would deny that. So?
S_87
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hitler was a lunatic. when he fell that was just about end of his rule. many worked for him for fear not because they supportedhim
im israel leading is a bunch of lunatics all with same mind, blind hate, and not working for each other in fear but because they are all so sick in the head and want blood
Salaam,
Who is a Jew?
The answer
[PIE]
It is important to note that being a Jew has nothing to do with what you believe or what you do. A person born to non-Jewish parents who has not undergone the formal process of conversion but who believes everything that Orthodox Jews believe and observes every law and custom of Judaism is still a non-Jew, even in the eyes of the most liberal movements of Judaism, and a person born to a Jewish mother who is an atheist and never practices the Jewish religion is still a Jew, even in the eyes of the ultra-Orthodox. In this sense, Judaism is more like a nationality than like other religions, and being Jewish is like a citizenship
[/PIE]
[PIE]First, traditional Judaism maintains that a person is a Jew if his mother is a Jew, regardless of who his father is. The liberal movements, on the other hand, consider a person to be Jewish if either of his parents was Jewish and the child was raised Jewish. Thus, if the child of a Jewish father and a Christian mother is raised Jewish, the child is a Jew according to the Reform movement, but not according to the Orthodox movement. On the other hand, if the child of a Christian father and a Jewish mother is not raised Jewish, the child is a Jew according to the Orthodox movement, but not according to the Reform movement! The matter becomes even more complicated, because the status of that children's children also comes into question.[/PIE]
http://www.jewfaq.org/whoisjew.htm
Who is a Jew?
The answer
[PIE]
It is important to note that being a Jew has nothing to do with what you believe or what you do. A person born to non-Jewish parents who has not undergone the formal process of conversion but who believes everything that Orthodox Jews believe and observes every law and custom of Judaism is still a non-Jew, even in the eyes of the most liberal movements of Judaism, and a person born to a Jewish mother who is an atheist and never practices the Jewish religion is still a Jew, even in the eyes of the ultra-Orthodox. In this sense, Judaism is more like a nationality than like other religions, and being Jewish is like a citizenship
[/PIE]
[PIE]First, traditional Judaism maintains that a person is a Jew if his mother is a Jew, regardless of who his father is. The liberal movements, on the other hand, consider a person to be Jewish if either of his parents was Jewish and the child was raised Jewish. Thus, if the child of a Jewish father and a Christian mother is raised Jewish, the child is a Jew according to the Reform movement, but not according to the Orthodox movement. On the other hand, if the child of a Christian father and a Jewish mother is not raised Jewish, the child is a Jew according to the Orthodox movement, but not according to the Reform movement! The matter becomes even more complicated, because the status of that children's children also comes into question.[/PIE]
http://www.jewfaq.org/whoisjew.htm
guyabano
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Geronimo
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So all those pics I posted were fakes? I got tons more if you need proof
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