How do I respond to ignorance and messages of hate??

[QuranStudy]

Is it easy to tolerate hate in ME societies?

I dont see Middle Easterners making an agenda to defame other religions.

 

[QuranStudy]

i really don't know why you would waste your time with a person who obviously has an agenda to discredit your religion. i don't think you can reason with a bigot and you are not going to change them either. it takes 2 to play these mind games - my suggestion would be simply not to participate and walk away. there is no reason you should stand there while some one is saying hateful and insulting things about your religion.
when you let them make you angry, you are rewarding them for their effort.

Excellent post. Reps.

 

[QuranStudy]

Is there a set of guidelines in the Quran that explains how to deal with ignorants? Thanks.

I really appreciate the quality posts in this thread.

 

[*LJ*]

Asalamu alaikum bro,

I've got to say I haven't yet been in a situation where my religion has been outright insulted in front of my face but I feel that if I was put in that situation, I would hate to just ignore that person. I would want to say something back to them, even if it was just to tell them that what they are saying is completely untrue or to tell them that they shouldn't believe everything they hear...saying that I'm not sure that I would honestly have the courage to do this.

I know these people may seem completely arrogant and hateful but I just feel a bit like we can't give up on people, the most unlikely of people can find religion and change completely and sometimes people act tough and mean but its all a front. As long as we can try to put across the message of Islam then our part is done, if they don't listen after that then its nothing to do with us and Allah knows what they believe and what they are really like.

Just my opinion, salam

 

[wilberhum]

I dont see Middle Easterners making an agenda to defame other religions.

Did you here about the Holocaust cartoon fair in Iran?
Any comments about "Freedom of Religion" in the ME?

 

[QuranStudy]

But doesnt the Quran say to ignore the ignorant and just say "peace?"

How did Muhammad (pbuh) respond in similar situations?

 

[QuranStudy]

Did you here about the Holocaust cartoon fair in Iran?
Any comments about "Freedom of Religion" in the ME?

Lets see:

1.) It did not defame Judaism using Torah or Talmud.
2.) It did not defame Jewish prophets.

And if you used your senses, you'd know that Iran didnt do this fair with intention to offend Jews. Iran did it to test how much of "freedom of speech" Westerners value.

And why are you so mad? The Holocaust is an atheistic crime.

 

[QuranStudy]

Any comments about "Freedom of Religion" in the ME?

LOL @ you. Nice try trying to divert the topic. It's not worth replying to you. Read my original post and if you wish, reply accordingly.

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

And why are you so mad? The Holocaust is an atheistic crime.

You object so strongly to any criticism of your chosen belief-system, but you're quite happy to lash out at the beliefs of others, aren't you?

So, in this case, I'm being forced to ask myself "How do I respond to ignorance and messages of hate from QuranStudy?" I'm sure it's a just a phase you're going through.

I fail to see the connection between the holocaust and atheism. How have you come up with that?

Hitler certainly wasn't an atheist - see here.

Peace

 

[QuranStudy]

I fail to see the connection between the holocaust and atheism. How have you come up with that?

Hitler certainly wasn't an atheist - see here.

Peace

Hmmm...let's see:

Night of 11th-12th July, 1941

"National Socialism and religion cannot exist together....

"The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity....

"Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things."

10th October, 1941, midday

"Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure."

14th October, 1941, midday

"The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity....

"Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse....

"...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little....

"Christianity <is> the liar....

"We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State."

19th October, 1941, night

"The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity."

21st October, 1941, midday

"Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism, the destroyer....

"The decisive falsification of Jesus' <who he asserts many times was never a Jew> doctrine was the work of St.Paul. He gave himself to this work... for the purposes of personal exploitation....

"Didn't the world see, carried on right into the Middle Ages, the same old system of martyrs, tortures, faggots? Of old, it was in the name of Christianity.

13th December, 1941, midnight

"Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery....

"When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease."

14th December, 1941, midday

"Kerrl, with noblest of intentions, wanted to attempt a synthesis between National Socialism and Christianity. I don't believe the thing's possible, and I see the obstacle in Christianity itself....

"Pure Christianity-- the Christianity of the catacombs-- is concerned with translating Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind. It is merely whole-hearted Bolshevism,
under a tinsel of metaphysics."

9th April, 1942, dinner

"There is something very unhealthy about Christianity."

27th February, 1942, midday

"It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field. I realize that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors-- but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie."

"Our epoch in the next 200 years will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity.... My regret will have been that I couldn't... behold <its demise>."

So, is Hitler an atheist? You decide.....

 

[Abdul Fattah]

Is there a set of guidelines in the Quran that explains how to deal with ignorants? Thanks.

I really appreciate the quality posts in this thread.

I think this surah might be relevant in showing us the correct attitude.

AL-KAFIROON (THE DISBELIEVERS, ATHEISTS)

Total Verses: 6
Revealed At: MAKKA
Maududi's introduction

In the name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful.

109.001
YUSUFALI: Say : O ye that reject Faith!
PICKTHAL: Say: O disbelievers!
SHAKIR: Say: O unbelievers!

109.002
YUSUFALI: I worship not that which ye worship,
PICKTHAL: I worship not that which ye worship;
SHAKIR: I do not serve that which you serve,

109.003
YUSUFALI: Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
PICKTHAL: Nor worship ye that which I worship.
SHAKIR: Nor do you serve Him Whom I serve:

109.004
YUSUFALI: And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,
PICKTHAL: And I shall not worship that which ye worship.
SHAKIR: Nor am I going to serve that which you serve,

109.005
YUSUFALI: Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
PICKTHAL: Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
SHAKIR: Nor are you going to serve Him Whom I serve:

109.006
YUSUFALI: To you be your Way, and to me mine.
PICKTHAL: Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion.
SHAKIR: You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion.

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

So, is Hitler an atheist? You decide.....

No he wasn't. He didn't like Christianity, but that's not the same as being an atheist!

He very much believed in god - he just didn't approve of the way Christianity was organised and had (he thought) perverted the teachings of Jesus.

Here are reports of his privately stated views on religion from two of his closest colleagues:

Joseph Goebbels, for example, notes in a diary entry in 1939: "The Führer is deeply religious, but deeply anti-Christian. He regards Christianity as a symptom of decay." Albert Speer reports a similar statement: “You see, it’s been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn’t we have the religion of the Japanese, who regard sacrifice for the Fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness?"

Please read the article I posted - you're arguing from a position of total ignorance here.

Peace

 

[Woodrow]

Is there a set of guidelines in the Quran that explains how to deal with ignorants? Thanks.

I really appreciate the quality posts in this thread.

I'm going to try to address your question above. But, first I would like to just point out something. The title of your thread is excellent.

How do I respond to ignorance and messages of hate??

Keep in mind they are 2 seperate subjects. Ignorance is not hate and it is not even animosity. It is just that ignorance. the biggest difficulty I find in dealing with ignorance is to understand that when we view a person as ignorant that person see's us as ignorant also. we appear to them to be just as ignorant as they appear to be to us. It is difficult dealing with ignorance because the person is not acting out of hate or malice they are acting through what they see as being truth and they want to stand up for what they believe to be true just as much as we do. When we look at what we call ignorance we need to be aware of why. Is it deliberate or just lack of knowledge?

In the Qur'an it seems that the ones most guilty of ignorance are those who had the word and did not see it.

9:94. They will present their excuses to you when ye return to them. Say thou: "Present no excuses: we shall not believe you: Allah hath already informed us of the true state of matters concerning you: It is your actions that Allah and His Messenger will observe: in the end will ye be brought back to Him Who knoweth what is hidden and what is open: then will He show you the truth of all that ye did." S P

9:95. They will swear to you by Allah, when ye return to them, that ye may leave them alone. So leave them alone: For they are an abomination, and Hell is their dwelling-place,-a fitting recompense for the (evil) that they did. S P
9:96. They will swear unto you, that ye may be pleased with them but if ye are pleased with them, Allah is not pleased with those who disobey. S P

9:97. The Arabs of the desert are the worst in Unbelief and hypocrisy, and most fitted to be in ignorance of the command which Allah hath sent down to His Messenger: But Allah is All-knowing, All-Wise. S P
9:98. Some of the desert Arabs look upon their payments as a fine, and watch for disasters for you: on them be the disaster of evil: for Allah is He That heareth and knoweth (all things). S P C

9:99. But some of the desert Arabs believe in Allah and the Last Day, and look on their payments as pious gifts bringing them nearer to Allah and obtaining the prayers of the Messenger. Aye, indeed they bring them nearer (to Him): soon will Allah admit them to His Mercy: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. S P C


Yusuf Ali's Quran Translation

Most people we view as ignorant are not ignorant out of arrogance. They are ignorant out of lack of knowledge. I belief those need to be nurtered and gently fed the truth. I believe the Qur'an instructs us on how to spread truth, and that is how to respond to ignorance.

2:41. And believe in what I reveal, confirming the revelation which is with you, and be not the first to reject Faith therein, nor sell My Signs for a small price; and fear Me, and Me alone. S P C

2:42. And cover not Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when ye know (what it is). S P 2:43. And be steadfast in prayer; practise regular charity; and bow down your heads with those who bow down (in worship). S P C
2:44. Do ye enjoin right conduct on the people, and forget (To practise it) yourselves, and yet ye study the Scripture? Will ye not understand? S P

2:45. Nay, seek (Allah's) help with patient perseverance and prayer: It is indeed hard, except to those who bring a lowly spirit,- S P C 2:46. Who bear in mind the certainty that they are to meet their Lord, and that they are to return to Him. S P


Yusuf Ali's Quran Translation

 

[QuranStudy]

No he wasn't. He didn't like Christianity, but that's not the same as being an atheist!

Did you even read the first quote I posted? He claims Nazism and religion doesnt go together!

Interesting article:

He was born and brought up a Roman Catholic. But he lost faith early and he attends no religious services of any kind. His Catholicism means nothing to him; he is impervious even to the solace of confession. On being formed his government almost immediately began a fierce religious war against Catholics, Protestants, and Jews alike.

Why? Perhaps the reason was not religion fundamentally, but politics. To Hitler the overwhelming first business of the Nazi revolution was the "unification," the Gleichschaltung (coördination) of Germany. He had one driving passion, the removal from the Reich of any competition, of whatever kind. The Vatican, like Judaism, was a profoundly international (thus non-German) organism. Therefore -- out with it.

The basis of much of the madness of Hitlerism was his incredibly severe and drastic desire to purge Germany of non-German elements, to create a hundred per cent Germany for one hundred per cent Germans only. He disliked bankers and department stores -- as Dorothy Thompson pointed out -- because they represented non-German, international, financial and commercial forces. He detested socialists and communists because they were affiliated with world groups aiming to internationalize labor. He loathed, above all, pacifists, because pacifists, opposing war, were internationalists.

Catholicism he considered a particularly dangerous competitive force, because it demands two allegiances of a man, and double allegiance was something Hitler could not countenance. Thus the campaign against the "black moles," as Nazis call priests. Several times German relations with the Vatican neared the breaking point. Protestantism was -- theoretically -- a simpler matter to deal with, because the Lutheran Church presumably was German and nationalist. Hitler thought that by the simple installation of an army chaplain, a ferocious Nazi named Mueller, as Reichbishop, he could "coördinate" the Evangelical Church in Germany, and turn it to his service. The idea of a united Protestant Church

[10]

appealed to his neat architect's mind. He was wrong. The church question has been an itching pot of trouble ever since. All through 1936 and 1937 it raged.

It was quite natural, following the confused failure to Nazify Protestantism, that some of Hitler's followers should have turned to Paganism. The Norse myths are a first-class nationalist substitute. Carried to its logical extreme, Naziism in fact demands the creation of a new and nationalist religion. Hitler has indicated this in a speech at Nuremberg in September, 1935. "Christianity," he said, "succeeded for a time in uniting the old Teutonic tribes, but the Reformation destroyed this unity. Germany is now a united nation. National Socialism has succeeded where Christianity failed." And Heiden has quoted Hitler's remark, "We do not want any other God than Germany itself." This is a vital point. Germany is Hitler's religion.

One of Hitler's grudges against God is the fact that Jesus was a Jew. Another is a nationalist grudge again. The basis of the Nazi revolution was the defeat of Germany in the War. Thus religion had to be Nazified because no God who permitted the French and any other "inferior" races to win the War could be a satisfactory God for Germany.

Hitler's attempt to unify religion in Germany may lead to one danger. He himself may become a god. And divinity entails difficulties. Gods have to perform miracles.

Vividly in Mein Kampf Hitler tells the story of his first encounter with a Jew. He was a boy of seventeen, alone in Vienna, and he had never seen a Jew in his life. The Jew, a visitor from Poland or the Ukraine, in native costume, outraged the tender susceptibilities of the youthful Hitler.

"Can this creature be a Jew?" he asked himself. Then, bursting on him, came a second question: "Can he possibly be a German?"

This early experience had a profound influence on him, forming the emotional base of his perfervid anti-Semitism. He was provincially mortified that any such creature could be one with himself, a sharer in Teuton nationality. Later he "rationalized" his fury on economic and political grounds. Jews, he said, took jobs away from "Germans"; Jews controlled the Press of Berlin, the theater, the arts; there were too many Jewish lawyers, doctors, professors; the Jews were a "pestilence, worse than the Black Death."

No one can properly conceive the basic depth and breadth of Hitler's anti-Semitism who has not carefully read Mein Kampf. This book was

[11]

written ten years ago. He has changed it as edition followed edition, in minor particulars, and refuses to allow its publication -- unexpurgated -- abroad. Recently he sued a French publisher who tried to bring out an unabridged translation. In all editions, the implacability of his anti- Jewish prejudice remains.

Any number of incidents outside the book may be mentioned. For instance, in the winter of 1934-35 he is supposed to have seen a play called Tovarich, recounting sympathetically the plight of aristocratic Russian émigrés and sneering at the Bolsheviks, four times. Before he first attended it, it is said, his secretaries telegraphed to Paris to ascertain if the author, Jacques Deval, was Aryan as far back as his grandparents. It would have been unthinkable for Hitler to have witnessed a play by even a partly Jewish author.

Long before he became chancellor, Hitler would not allow himself to speak to a Jew even on the telephone. A publicist as well known as Walter Lippmann, a statesman as eminent as Lord Reading, would not be received at the Brown House. An interesting point arises. Has Hitler, in maturity, actually ever been in the company of a Jew, ever once talked to one? Possibly not.

http://www.geocities.com/athens/olympus/9587/attrelig.html

 

[QuranStudy]

czgibson, I believe I went out of line crtisizing atheists, and I apologise. I hope you can forgive me. I am a hypocrit. I am not interested in petty debates which dont prove anything significant. I'm sorry.

 

[QuranStudy]

I'm going to try to address your question above. But, first I would like to just point out something. The title of your thread is excellent.

How do I respond to ignorance and messages of hate??

Keep in mind they are 2 seperate subjects. Ignorance is not hate and it is not even animosity. It is just that ignorance. the biggest difficulty I find in dealing with ignorance is to understand that when we view a person as ignorant that person see's us as ignorant also. we appear to them to be just as ignorant as they appear to be to us. It is difficult dealing with ignorance because the person is not acting out of hate or malice they are acting through what they see as being truth and they want to stand up for what they believe to be true just as much as we do. When we look at what we call ignorance we need to be aware of why. Is it deliberate or just lack of knowledge?

In the Qur'an it seems that the ones most guilty of ignorance are those who had the word and did not see it.

Thank you for the excellent post!

But I still dont understand two things:

1.) How to I respond to people who are convinced that Islam is a religion of hatred. I understand people are entitled to their view but what do I do if they try to smear their insults on Islam upon me? Let's assume that they are convinced and that I can do nothing to correct them.

2.) How would I repond to insults that are made to me because I'm Muslim? People called me a terrorist on some occasions and look down on me as if I'm inferior? What is the Islamic way to reply?

Salaam.

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Did you even read the first quote I posted? He claims Nazism and religion doesnt go together!

You've got to ask yourself: is he talking about religion in general, or religion as it existed in the society he lived in? Since we know from other sources that he did believe in god, I suspect the latter.

Remember that atheism simply refers to the belief that there is no god. It is not necessarily identical with opposing organised religion.

czgibson, I believe I went out of line crtisizing atheists, and I apologise. I hope you can forgive me. I am a hypocrit. I am not interested in petty debates which dont prove anything significant. I'm sorry.

Apology accepted - it's big of you to own up to it.

Peace

 

[Abdul Fattah]

It's not my intention of throwing oil on a fire that's about to go out, I'm glad to see everything turned out well. But I would say that atheism isn't "all that good".

I used to to consider myself an atheist.
And if I had read some of the things that apeared in this thread back then, I would have been furious in anger for the biggotry.
But looking back now, I see myself quite far away from that atheist I used to be, and I know realise, although I am still humble, although I am still aware of my mistakes, that back then, I was a lot worse.

I thought I was pretty righteous, and had a good sense of morality. But truth is, as an atheist you have no solid base to build a morality upon, and your morality is to easely influenced. People are falible, and if you entrust a person to build up his own morality based on his own reason and intelligence it will always have flaws in it. Now there might be atheists who behave a lot bether then some theist. I wouldn,'t even doubt that. It's not good to compare, and you'll always find good and bad people in any group. But I reckon, if you get that specific "good" atheist to believe, that he'll aqcuire an even higher morality!

Alow me to bring some perspective to that statement to show where I'm coming from. I always like to give the example of alcohol. Wheter or not alcohol should be banned can be discussed. An atheist might feel that banning it is to drastic. Nevertheless he cannot deny that alcohol has more downsides then benefits. A person, as well as a society is better of without it. Now, one person might say that that is enough reason to ban alcohol, while another might argue that the price for banning it (giving up freedom) is to high for what one gets in return. Personal preferences aside, whichever one of those two viewpoints are desirable, I think both parties would have to agree that the strictest vieuwpoint, holds the "highest" morality. Some might consider it to high, but it is nevertheless "higher" in the strictest sense of the word.

 

[Woodrow]

Thank you for the excellent post!

But I still dont understand two things:

1.) How to I respond to people who are convinced that Islam is a religion of hatred. I understand people are entitled to their view but what do I do if they try to smear their insults on Islam upon me? Let's assume that they are convinced and that I can do nothing to correct them.

2.) How would I repond to insults that are made to me because I'm Muslim? People called me a terrorist on some occasions and look down on me as if I'm inferior? What is the Islamic way to reply?

Salaam.

1.) Sadly the first part we need to accept is:

Let's assume that they are convinced and that I can do nothing to correct them.

That is not an assumption it is often true. The difficult part is in defending our Brothers while condeming some of their acts which cause that to be a common belief. Understand that people do not look at us as being inferior without some provocation from some of our somewhat overzealous brethren. We do have members whose intent and love of Allah(swt) is admirable, but their actions are wrong. Intent is good method is not. We can not be apologists for our Brother's actions and we do not need to publicaly denounce them, but we have to acknowledge they exist and that they do hinder us in spreading the truth. All we as individuals can do is to live the truth, try to be a living example of the Qur'an and to hold our heads high without arrogance. Much damage to our image has been done and the healing process will be slow. We need to pray for tolerance. If we do not keep focused on Allah(swt) Shaitan will lead us onto a very unholy path that many of us will think is truth.

2.) That is a very difficult task. Prejudace is painfull. As a kid I had no concept I was part oriental. I looked very white. Keep in mind WW2 had just ended and feelings against Japanese or any oriental was very strong. Without going into further detail I got a very first hand account of prejudice the first time my classmates saw my mother with her full oriental features. Religious prejudice does not differ from racial prejudice. The only cure is knowledge and for each of us to avoid living the stereotypical image

 

[QuranStudy]

Thank you brother Woodrow for your post!

Should I just ignore and take in the hate and seek refuge from Allah through prayer? I believe that attack, though hurtful at times, can be absorbed. I think I have enough patience to know better than to reply.

Thank you. May Allah protect us all from hatred.