what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer
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ZOREENA
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Re: original sin-believing a child is born with sins......
Catholics inherited sinz, coz of Adam...first I heard of that and I used to be a Cathoilic...but we were never taught anything worthwile anyway!! So original sin is based on Adamz actionz, even though Jesus died for the peoplez sinz, still a new born baby is born into it? And the priest has the special power to absolve this sin, only if the baby is baptised??
Catholics inherited sinz, coz of Adam...first I heard of that and I used to be a Cathoilic...but we were never taught anything worthwile anyway!! So original sin is based on Adamz actionz, even though Jesus died for the peoplez sinz, still a new born baby is born into it? And the priest has the special power to absolve this sin, only if the baby is baptised??
glo
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Re: original sin-believing a child is born with sins......
The point is not that they ate a piece of fruit! :rollseyes
The point is that they went willingly against God's instructions. (Obedience to Allah is a strong Islamic principle, so you should understand the severity of this.)
Furthermore, the fruit was from the Tree of the Knowledge of good and evil.
So not only were Adam and Eve disobeying God's instructions, they also wanted to be like God, rather than be submissive to him. (Submission to Allah is also a strong Islamic principle, so again, there should be no problems with that)
Indeed, the tempter said this to them:
"For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."(Genesis 3:5)
That is the sin which continues to be present in us humans to this present day: The desire to rebel against God, to ignore his presence and his commands to us, and tothink of yourself as being greater than God! (Can you, as a Muslim, disagree with any of this?)
Just look around the secular world, in which people genuinely think they can manage just fine without God! :?
God does not hold people accountable until they are old enough to make an informed choice about their faith. Hence children and people who are mentally or congitively unable to understand are saved anyway.
In fact, Jesus himself said this:
"I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me.
But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. (Matthew 18:2-6)
I hope this explains the Christian perspective somewhat.
(I just realise that I wrote all this in post #11 ... bit of a deja-vu then ... :giggling
Peace.
Forgive me cihad, but your post demonstrates just how little understanding you have of the Christian faith. Either that, or that this Jeff Lang guy might not be trying too hard to explain Christian doctrine ... :?
The point is not that they ate a piece of fruit! :rollseyes
The point is that they went willingly against God's instructions. (Obedience to Allah is a strong Islamic principle, so you should understand the severity of this.)
Furthermore, the fruit was from the Tree of the Knowledge of good and evil.
So not only were Adam and Eve disobeying God's instructions, they also wanted to be like God, rather than be submissive to him. (Submission to Allah is also a strong Islamic principle, so again, there should be no problems with that)
Indeed, the tempter said this to them:
"For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."(Genesis 3:5)
That is the sin which continues to be present in us humans to this present day: The desire to rebel against God, to ignore his presence and his commands to us, and tothink of yourself as being greater than God! (Can you, as a Muslim, disagree with any of this?)
Just look around the secular world, in which people genuinely think they can manage just fine without God! :?
Most Christians do not believe this!
God does not hold people accountable until they are old enough to make an informed choice about their faith. Hence children and people who are mentally or congitively unable to understand are saved anyway.
In fact, Jesus himself said this:
"I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me.
But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. (Matthew 18:2-6)
I hope this explains the Christian perspective somewhat.
(I just realise that I wrote all this in post #11 ... bit of a deja-vu then ... :giggling
Peace.
InToTheRain
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Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer
Hi Glo and
From what I understand from christianity i believe what we see today is a result of mankind bieng led astray by satan and his works. He has set many traps for us, tempts us to do much evil and loves seeing mankinds demise. After all, if this original sin was all that was needed tempt us to go against God, there would be no need for satan.
Matthew 13:19
When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is the seed sown along the path.
Mathew 13:37-39: He answered, "The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.
"For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works" (2 Corinthians 11:13-14).
Peter 5:8-9
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.
and there are many more which tell of how satan/devil attempts to lead people astray. This makes more sense as to why people commit sins and keep on doing so. We also know that Adam and Eve (Peace be upon them) were Sinless, pure. But the Satan decieved them and led them astray using his mind games and traps. Similiarly Children are born innocent and remain innocent until they are led astray due to Satans temptations and well constructed deceptions.
Jesus says the children belive in him, doesn't that mean they were already baptised/christian? Does this not imply jesus is reffering to a christian child and not a random child?
Peace be upon you
Hi Glo and
From what I understand from christianity i believe what we see today is a result of mankind bieng led astray by satan and his works. He has set many traps for us, tempts us to do much evil and loves seeing mankinds demise. After all, if this original sin was all that was needed tempt us to go against God, there would be no need for satan.
Matthew 13:19
When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is the seed sown along the path.
Mathew 13:37-39: He answered, "The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.
"For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works" (2 Corinthians 11:13-14).
Peter 5:8-9
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.
and there are many more which tell of how satan/devil attempts to lead people astray. This makes more sense as to why people commit sins and keep on doing so. We also know that Adam and Eve (Peace be upon them) were Sinless, pure. But the Satan decieved them and led them astray using his mind games and traps. Similiarly Children are born innocent and remain innocent until they are led astray due to Satans temptations and well constructed deceptions.
Jesus says the children belive in him, doesn't that mean they were already baptised/christian? Does this not imply jesus is reffering to a christian child and not a random child?
Peace be upon you
InToTheRain
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Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer
Can a christian brother or sister of the book give clarification regarding my previous post :?
Incase its not clear :hiding: I was emphasising that from my understanding of what I read from the Bible the concept of original sin bieng inherited by man from Adam(AS) and Eve(AS) doesn't exist. I also whent on to say how from the teachings of the Bible it is saitans work to make us rebel against God and not this original Sin.
1) Adam(AS) and Eve(AS) where pure and sinless before eating the apple. If the inheritance of original sin is what makes us rebel from God, why did Adam(AS) and Eve(AS) eat the fruit when they were pure? Clearly is was Saitans work.
2) Jesus(AS) warned us many times against the temptation of the devil and how the saitan will lead us astray. Doesn't the existence of an original sin which makes us rebel against God negate the work or existence of saitan and his work. And it also contradicts 1)
3) To me it also removes the concept of sin being inherited or bieng accountable for the sins of another. This means babies or children who are incapable of making a decision are pure and innocent until they decide to rebel against God by following the works of saitan.
Does the teachings of christianity agree with me on this or is my understanding of christianity wrong?
Peace be upon you.
Can a christian brother or sister of the book give clarification regarding my previous post :?
Incase its not clear :hiding: I was emphasising that from my understanding of what I read from the Bible the concept of original sin bieng inherited by man from Adam(AS) and Eve(AS) doesn't exist. I also whent on to say how from the teachings of the Bible it is saitans work to make us rebel against God and not this original Sin.
1) Adam(AS) and Eve(AS) where pure and sinless before eating the apple. If the inheritance of original sin is what makes us rebel from God, why did Adam(AS) and Eve(AS) eat the fruit when they were pure? Clearly is was Saitans work.
2) Jesus(AS) warned us many times against the temptation of the devil and how the saitan will lead us astray. Doesn't the existence of an original sin which makes us rebel against God negate the work or existence of saitan and his work. And it also contradicts 1)
3) To me it also removes the concept of sin being inherited or bieng accountable for the sins of another. This means babies or children who are incapable of making a decision are pure and innocent until they decide to rebel against God by following the works of saitan.
Does the teachings of christianity agree with me on this or is my understanding of christianity wrong?
Peace be upon you.
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