Apostate In Malaysia

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Actually about 1 or 2 months ago syilla and I discussed whether we should create this thread (about Lina Joy)... but both of us dont do it ... I dont know why..... for me I can't comment on this for the time being because I cant make any decision for this issue ... so I'll just being an observer here.....
 
Like my country.... I'm at a crossroads.....

I cant decide... I hope Malaysians and others can give their points regarding to this issue.... for the time being i still want to be an observer...
 
i saw this article a while back. don't know how to judge its accuracy.
Malaysia's secular vision vs. 'writing on the wall'
http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/08/28/news/letter.php


Dont know how to judge the article due to lack of info,but some of the person whose got interviewed are well known for their criticising on Islam and frequently write about Liberalism mindset.Especially Farish Noor.

Under the current government Islam be able to breathe a fresh air,despite our society being turbulence by apostasy issue.Unlike Dr.M,Pak Lah are more softspoken.Being a habit he gonna take much time to answer a question or accusing on him.And because of that there are many people could take an advantage on him.Fortunately we still considered his ruling style as Islamic friendly.
 
Dont know how to judge the article due to lack of info,but some of the person whose got interviewed are well known for their criticising on Islam and frequently write about Liberalism mindset.Especially Farish Noor.

Under the current government Islam be able to breathe a fresh air,despite our society being turbulence by apostasy issue.Unlike Dr.M,Pak Lah are more softspoken.Being a habit he gonna take much time to answer a question or accusing on him.And because of that there are many people could take an advantage on him.Fortunately we still considered his ruling style as Islamic friendly.

* Farish Noor - Is he the fella saying that Rayhana was Prophet Muhammad's mistress?

* Pak Lah - UNFORTUNATELY his daughter is one of Sisters in Islam's patron...

* UNTIL NOW - I dont see what ISLAM HADHARI effects on our nation...

P/S: Sorry if I offended u for saying bad things about Pak Lah.... coz I'm supporter of ANWAR IBRAHIM.
 
* Farish Noor - Is he the fella saying that Rayhana was Prophet Muhammad's mistress?

* Pak Lah - UNFORTUNATELY his daughter is one of Sisters in Islam's patron...

* UNTIL NOW - I dont see what ISLAM HADHARI effects on our nation...

P/S: Sorry if I offended u for saying bad things about Pak Lah.... coz I'm supporter of ANWAR IBRAHIM.

I never said i am support for Pak Lah,you not offend me at all,and all my family are PAS supporter including me.I don't want to being rush make a conclusion in simple quoting.There lot more to tell,but it depend on other peoples view.Yes we dont get a result as what we wish from him maybe the problem are from his predecessor legacy.Its a fate for the minority to accept any decision from majority.
 
have you read the interview in bm...the thread that i made :D...

its mentioned about SIS....it says that most of the member of SIS doesn't really know what is SIS doing... same with the IFC....
 
So in other words you filled her head with nonsense to keep her from converting. Nice


Salaam,

In what way is asking question nonsense?

Is the question not pertinent?

Muslim womena dn men observe decency in manner and clothing...all who claim to be muslim must do this.

Where as in the church only nuns and monks are supposed to cover themselves?
So why do they do that when other chrsitian need not ?

In Islam,all muslim are to worship Allah five times a day?
Nuns and Monks pray more than that ..
But everyday chrsitian only need only come to church on Sun..

So why do they do that when other chrsitian need not ?


I guess these question struck a chord in you..Inshallah.i hope intime it will resound deeper and awaken you to your own mockery..Inshallah
 
Salaam,

I think the woman should go for counselling.

Let her realise her love for a man has blinded her to her duties as a creation of Allah.
 
Salaam,

this is very interesting..

[PIE]Traditional treatment of apostates according to Shari'a law::

Islam teaches that a newborn has an innate ability to know and believe in his creator, and to understand good and evil. Muhammad (pbuh) stated: "Every child is born with the believing nature...it is his parents who make him into a Jew or a Christian." There is to be no force used to convert a non-believer to Islam. The Qur'ãn, quoted above, prohibits the use of compulsion to force a person or a society to accept Islam.

However, once a person freely "enters into the fold of Islam, the rules change." 4 The word "Islam" means "submission to the will of God." The Qur'ãn says that: "No believing man and no believing woman has a choice in their own affairs when Allãh and His Messenger have decided on an issue." (33:36) On the issue of apostasy, "Islam clearly says: No! You cannot become an apostate." 4 Apostasy is viewed as a form of treason.

In many predominately Muslim countries, the punishment for apostasy is death.

Assuming that the individual: Was a Muslim
Openly rejects Islam,
Has made this decision freely and without coercion,
Is aware of the nature of his/her statements, and
Is an adult. then the penalty prescribed by Shari'a (Islamic) law is execution for men and life imprisonment for women. Drunkards and mentally ill persons are excluded from this punishment because they are considered to be not responsible for their statements.


A person born of a Muslim parent who later rejects Islam is called a "Murtad Fitri" (Apostate - natural). This is viewed a treason against God. They are given a second chance. If they repent of their decision, they will be released. A person who converted to Islam and later rejected the religion is a "Murtad Milli" (apostate - from the community.) This is viewed as treason against the community. Male apostates are executed even if they repent. Female apostates are released from imprisonment if they repent.

Additional factors: If either spouse apostatize from Islam, a divorce is automatic.
If both apostatize they are generally allowed to stay married.
An under-aged male is imprisoned, and only executed if he remains an apostate when he becomes of age.
The will of a male apostate is not valid.
A female apostate's will remains valid.
In the rare instances when an apostate is executed, it is traditionally done by severing his neck with a sword.
Among Malikites, Shafi'ites, and Hanbalites, adult women receive the same penalty as men: execution.
The Shi'ite schools of law allow for Islamic law towards apostates to be applied in non-Muslim countries. The majority "Sunnites do not believe in extraterritorial jurisdiction." 4




Justification for the death penalty is mainly based on two Hadith texts: "Whoever changes his religion shall be killed." (Abu Dawud)
"It is not lawful to kill a man who is a Muslim except for one of the three reasons: Kufr (disbelief) after accepting Islam....." (Abu Dawud).



Arguments against the death penalty for apostates:

This is an alternative belief heard increasingly within Islam: that religious freedom and the absence of compulsion in religion requires that individuals be allowed adopt a religion or to convert to another religion without legal penalty. Of course, whether a person who leaves Islam can be expected to be free of condemnation from their family and neighbors is a different matter.

One group promoting this belief is Sisters in Islam (SIS), "a group of Muslim professional women committed to promoting the rights of women within the framework of Islam." 5 They claim that the death penalty is not an appropriate response to apostasy: The former Chief Justice of Pakistan, SA Rahman, has written that there is no reference to the death penalty in any of the 20 instances of apostasy mentioned in the Qur'an. 6
The quotation from Surah An-Nisa', 4:137, shown at the top of this essay, seems to imply that multiple, sequential apostasies are possible. That would not be possible if the person were executed after the first apostasy.
Muslims who support the death penalty for apostasy often base their belief partly on a hadith in which he said: "Kill whoever changes his religion." But this is a weak foundation because: This hadith was only transmitted from Muhammad (pbuh) by one individual. It was not confirmed by a second person.

According to Islamic law, this is insufficient basis on which to impose the death penalty.

The hadith is so generally worded that it would require the death penalty for a Christian or Jew who converted to Islam. This is obviously not the prophet's intent. The hadith is in need of further specification, which has not been documented.
Many scholars interpret this passage as referring only to instances of high treason. (e.g. declaring war on Islam, Muhammad (pbuh), God, etc.)

There is no historical record which indicates that Muhammad (pbuh) or any of his companions ever sentenced anyone to death for apostasy.

A number of Islamic scholars from past centuries, Ibrahim al-Naka'I, Sufyan al-Thawri, Shams al-Din al-Sarakhsi, Abul Walid al-Baji and Ibn Taymiyyah, have all held that apostasy is a serious sin, but not one that requires the death penalty. In modern times, Mahmud Shaltut, Sheikh of al-Azhar, and Dr Mohammed Sayed Tantawi have concurred.


Dr. Maher Hathout, author of "In Pursuit of Justice: The Jurisprudence of Human Rights in Islam," writes:


"We strongly oppose the state's use of coercion in regulating Islamic belief in such a manner, since faith is a matter of individual choice on which only God can adjudicate."

Referring to the two hadiths traditionally used to justify the death penalty, Hathout writes:

"...both of them contradict the Quran and other instances in which the Prophet did not compel anyone to embrace Islam, nor punish them if they recanted."

"In one incident, the Prophet pardoned Abdullah bin Sa'd, after he renounced Islam. Abdullah bin Sa'd was one of the people chosen by the Prophet as a scribe, to write down Qur'anic text as it was revealed to the Prophet. After spending some time with the Muslims in Madina, he recanted and returned to the religion of the Quraish. When he was brought before the Prophet, Osman bin Affan pleaded on his behalf, and the Prophet subsequently pardoned Abdullah bin Sa'd (Ibn Hisham).

"The problem with the argument for punishment for apostasy is that it cannot be applied in any Islamic state without giving rise to the potential for abuse by the state itself. Erroneously equating moral with political power in the determination of law has led to the political repression that we see in Islamic countries today. We must separate the right of God from that of man in defining freedom of religion as a legal right. The right of God refers only to the moral obligations of Muslims towards God, and is adjudicated by God. The state cannot act as a coercive moral authority, in effect representing God's Will on earth, because it does not have the right to do so. In the context of freedom of religion, the state's responsibility is to uphold and protect it as the right of all humans, as granted by God, without exercising moral judgment on the content and/or manner of exercising those religious beliefs." 13,14[/PIE]

http://www.religioustolerance.org/isl_apos.htm

Anohter good read is

http://www.answering-christianity.com/apostates.htm

More to read at google..
 
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Good luck to her. I hope she is allowed to seek her own path to salvation and happiness. That she will not be forced by the state to be a Muslim while her heart does not believe.
 
:sl:

She has chosen a different path..and we as muslims cannot force someone to remain a muslim against their will..Allah says in the Qur'an let there be no compulsion/coersion.May Allah guide her back to Islam ameen.

:w:
 
According to the Christian belief, God loves everyone equally. He doesn’t love one person more than another.

Perhaps a Muslim can tell us about the Muslim belief in the matter of God’s love.

Wow an athiest is such an expert on christianity :D ..well if God loves everyone equally..then why is there a HELL in christianity? why will some people be punished for the wrongs they do?..Allah tells us in the Qur'an He DOESNT LOVE the murderers, that he DOESNT LOVE those who mistreat the orphans, the poor the downtrodden, Allah tells us he doesnt LOVE corruption, dealing in interest, gambling, and injustice of ALL KINDS etc.

my friend HATE IS NOT always a negative thing..we have to hate oppression, injustice etc..noway around it.Allah doesnt treat the good and bad alike..in todays societies most good and bad arent treated alike..how can you expect GOD the Almighty THE JUST..to act in a totally different way?
 
scentsofjannah said:
....well if God loves everyone equally..then why is there a HELL in christianity?


In the Christian belief, God is all loving. And he is forgiving. In the Christian belief, on the day of judgement, God might choose to send a murdurer to paradise.

The sins of the murdurer were paid for when the nails went through Jesus's hands on the cross.

In the Christian belief it's God's choice, not yours.
 
This much of your statement I can agree with.

In the Christian belief it's God's choice, not yours.
__________________
 
:sl:

Well look on the bright side, thousands more in Malaysia are becoming muslims, especially from the chinese malay community. You loose one sister and gain 20 others! Theres proabably more reverting to islam then leaving it. I think for many of the young people that do leave islam these days, often its because they've exprienced a twisted pervision of true islam. Theres alot of cultural hogwash that often exists in familes which are not based on any islamic principles but often potrayed that way by family and the children then rebel as adults.
 
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The sins of the murdurer were paid for when the nails went through Jesus's hands on the cross.

You see THATS where we differ..in Islam we believe that 'No bearer of burdens bears the burdens of another'..everyone will carry their own rubbish. Whatever good we do we will be rewarded for it ..whatever evil we do we will be held accountable for it..God is as always The Merciful..he may choose to forgive the small sins and shortcomings..and if someone is guilty of the major sins and they repent sincerely they will be forgiven.
 
I'm probably stupid but why can she have her true faith in her ID?? What's the aim of forcing her to have false information there???
well if God loves everyone equally..then why is there a HELL in christianity? why will some people be punished for the wrongs they do?
because we are free to reject Him. btw: there are some theologists who say that hell will be empty...
..Allah tells us in the Qur'an He DOESNT LOVE the murderers, that he DOESNT LOVE those who mistreat the orphans, the poor the downtrodden,
we believe He loves them
Allah tells us he doesnt LOVE corruption, dealing in interest, gambling, and injustice of ALL KINDS etc.
here we agree. Christian statement can be sum up as: God "loves sinner, hates sin"
how can you expect GOD the Almighty THE JUST..to act in a totally different way?
because He is LOVE. and He is totally different :D
n.
 
:sl:

Well look on the bright side, thousands more in Malaysia are becoming muslims, especially from the chinese malay community. You loose one sister and gain 20 others! Theres proabably more reverting to islam then leaving it. I think for many of the young people that do leave islam these days, often its because they've exprienced a twisted pervision of true islam. Theres alot of cultural hogwash that often exists in familes which are not based on any islamic principles but often potrayed that way by family and the children then rebel as adults.

Agreed...
 

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