non muslims as friends?

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nishom

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Salaam,

what is it meant when in the Quran it says not to take for friends disbelievers?

Sorry, but i cant remember where this ayah is.

My closest friend is a non Muslim.
 
nishom said:
Salaam,

what is it meant when in the Quran it says not to take for friends disbelievers?

Sorry, but i cant remember where this ayah is.

My closest friend is a non Muslim.
Click to expand...


Here are the verses in question brother,

003.028. Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from God: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them. But God cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to God.

004.139. Yea, to those who take for friends unbelievers rather than believers: is it honour they seek among them? Nay,- all honour is with God.

004.144. O ye who believe! Take not for friends unbelievers rather than believers: Do ye wish to offer God an open proof against yourselves?

005.051. O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily God guideth not a people unjust.

I did ask question regarding these ayah few days back, but no one cared to respond. Lets see if this time anyone does. Plz see post #9 of this thread.

http://www.islamicboard.com/world-affairs/29932-muslim-bias-hits-all-time-high.html
 
Ansar Al-'Adl said:
http://www.islamtoday.com/show_detail_section.cfm?q_id=474&main_cat_id=22
http://www.load-islam.com/artical_d...ection=wel_islam&subsection=Misconceptions#19

:w:
Click to expand...


Thanks brother Ansar for the links, but I think that its not helpfull to remove misconceptions. Can U be a bit more specific to prove why ALLAH had to reveal such verses which are so easy to misinterpretate and can help haters of both sides(muslims and non-muslims) in their evil designs to spread hatred?

Looking forward for ur reply. And this time plz keep in mind that holy quran is supposed to be easy to understand.

Thanks again.
 
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justahumane said:
Thanks brother Ansar for the links, but I think that its not helpfull to remove misconceptions. Can U be a bit more specific rather than twisting of translation to prove why ALLAH had to reveal such verses which are so easy to misinterpretate and can help haters of both sides(muslims and non-muslims) in their evil designs to spread hatred?

Looking forward for ur reply. And this time plz keep in mind that holy quran is supposed to be easy to understand.

Thanks again.
Click to expand...

I will not attempt to answer for Brother Ansar. This is strictly my own view. Although I am a revert to Islam. I find the Qur'an to be very easy to understand. There is no mystery in it. If a person takes the time to learn a few basic concepts of the Arabic language it flows as easy as water. Until a person has some knowledge of Arabic, there are many very good translations some are better than others. The only secret is that a person using a translation, is doing that, using a translation. If something seems radical or out of line, they need to understand that is probably a translation error. Also people reading the Qur'an need to be carefull not to take things out of context. Quite often a single line will have a very different concept when seen in view of the full text.
 
Hi justahumane.


Who said he twisted the meaning of the Qur'an? Allaah Almighty knows best, but i don't think the word that's used has any english equal, and that's the reason this is a confusing issue.



Peace.
 
Salaam,

Just wondering in what context these verses were revealed.

During the life of the prophet (pbuh) the Muslims were persecuted by the non Muslims, and many hypocrites from amonst the jews and Christians claimed to be Muslims but deceived the Muslims, because they wanted to backstab the Muslims.

In such a case it would not be right to befriend a person whom you fear such ill conduct from.

However, what about todays society, im sure having non Muslims friends is fine-so long as you do not suspect of them ill conduct.

Furthermore, if you dont take n on Muslims as friends, how are you supposed to give dawah?
 
justahumane said:
Thanks brother Ansar for the links, but I think that its not helpfull to remove misconceptions. Can U be a bit more specific rather than twisting of translation to prove why ALLAH had to reveal such verses which are so easy to misinterpretate and can help haters of both sides(muslims and non-muslims) in their evil designs to spread hatred?

Looking forward for ur reply. And this time plz keep in mind that holy quran is supposed to be easy to understand.

Thanks again.
Click to expand...

He is not 'twisting' any verses from the Quran - and you should know please not to use such words since they are accusations towards a Muslim.

The verse is very clear and the explanation is clear as well.
Like the article points out extremely clearly the word "auliya" is often mistranslated to mean friends when it does not.

Always remember the Quran is in Arabic - therefore people who make translations may mistakenly use words from other languages which do not best translate the words properly :)
 
In such a case where we are discussing such issues, rather than having the translation of the Quran, have the commentaryu so that the verses can be explained.

Otherwise, these verses can be interpreted in so much ways.
 
akulion said:
He is not 'twisting' any verses from the Quran - and you should know please not to use such words since they are accusations towards a Muslim.

The verse is very clear and the explanation is clear as well.
Like the article points out extremely clearly the word "auliya" is often mistranslated to mean friends when it does not.

Always remember the Quran is in Arabic - therefore people who make translations may mistakenly use words from other languages which do not best translate the words properly :)
Click to expand...


Okay brother, I m here to just know the truth, if any of my word is offending, I will remove it instantly.
 
Woodrow said:
I will not attempt to answer for Brother Ansar. This is strictly my own view. Although I am a revert to Islam. I find the Qur'an to be very easy to understand. There is no mystery in it. If a person takes the time to learn a few basic concepts of the Arabic language it flows as easy as water. Until a person has some knowledge of Arabic, there are many very good translations some are better than others. The only secret is that a person using a translation, is doing that, using a translation. If something seems radical or out of line, they need to understand that is probably a translation error. Also people reading the Qur'an need to be carefull not to take things out of context. Quite often a single line will have a very different concept when seen in view of the full text.
Click to expand...


Brother its not taking things out of context, ALLAH has clearly said and that too repeatedly that dont make friends among non-muslims, and these orders are not time bound but supposed to be followed till quayamah by muslims.
 
nishom said:
In such a case where we are discussing such issues, rather than having the translation of the Quran, have the commentaryu so that the verses can be explained.

Otherwise, these verses can be interpreted in so much ways.
Click to expand...

The only problem those of us who are Muslim often are not aware of what areas are not understood by non-Muslims. Also we are reluctant to post commentaries as to many of us that is tantamount to adding to or detracting from the Qur'an.

However, there are many frequent misconceptions that have been discussed at length on various threads. A good starting point would be to click on any of Ansar's posts and follow the excellent links he gives in the lower right of his posts.

Another good place to look is in our forum section(Basics of Islam-http://www.islamicboard.com/basics-islam/)that is an introduction to Islam.

Hope this may be of some help.
 
Fi_Sabilillah said:
Hi justahumane.


Who said he twisted the meaning of the Qur'an? Allaah Almighty knows best, but i don't think the word that's used has any english equal, and that's the reason this is a confusing issue.



Peace.
Click to expand...

Brother, the bottomline is that why ALLAH had to use the language and words which cant be transltated properly for the whole humankind for whom the holy book is meant. Almost all translators have used the word friends in the translation of verses in question. And what about 3:28, 4:139, and 4:144?

May I request anyone to explain to me?
 
Hi justahumane,
I have explained the historical context in the link I provided. That is why the verses were revealed, and they can be understood by non-arabs just as I have explained them in the link.
 
justahumane said:
Brother, the bottomline is that why ALLAH had to use the language and words which cant be transltated properly for the whole humankind for whom the holy book is meant. Almost all translators have used the word friends in the translation of verses in question. And what about 3:28, 4:139, and 4:144?

May I request anyone to explain to me?
Click to expand...

I won't go into why Arabic was selected However the same problem exists in all languages. No language can be translatered accuratly into another language. Often a literal word translation results in the wrong meaning, or trying to express the meaning results in the wrong word. Some modern examples: There is no English word for the German word Weltgeist. The English word for a speed bump in the road comes out as a sleeping policeman in chinese. The conscept of a non-conformist in Chines translates into English as an unbridled horse.


3:28. Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them. But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah. S P C

Yusuf Ali's Quran Translation


4:139. Yea, to those who take for friends unbelievers rather than believers: is it honour they seek among them? Nay,- all honour is with Allah. S P C

Yusuf Ali's Quran Translation

4:144. O ye who believe! Take not for friends unbelievers rather than believers: Do ye wish to offer Allah an open proof against yourselves? S P

Yusuf Ali's Quran Translation

Show me where any of those say we are forbidden to have a non-believer as a friend. Don't they all just say that we should not value a non-believer over a believer? Can you see any reason why we should not be forbidden to value non-believers over a believer. Is that not the same as saying to a Christian that he should not place non-Christians over his fellow Christians?
 
Ansar Al-'Adl said:
Hi justahumane,
I have explained the historical context in the link I provided. That is why the verses were revealed, and they can be understood by non-arabs just as I have explained them in the link.
Click to expand...

Brother, I think that U havent explained about all the verses in question, rather U have only explained about 5:51, isint it?

I can understand that U are busy with other matters on the forum and cant spare time to explain, but I can wait for the further explaination.

And regarding historical context, one muslim told me when I raised question about interest being earned by muslims that the verse which forbid usuary was circumstantial coz it was a bad practice in Arab that time to earn heavy interest on the loan amount. That verse doesnt apply now and now we can earn bank interest which is not haram according to holy quran. Was he right?

Arnt those verses wh ich forbids making friends among non-muslims relevent now and can they be disobeyed? Wont it annoy ALLAH if some muslim make friends among non-muslim? if not than plz explain why? and take ur time.
 
Woodrow said:
I won't go into why Arabic was selected However the same problem exists in all languages. No language can be translatered accuratly into another language. Often a literal word translation results in the wrong meaning, or trying to express the meaning results in the wrong word. Some modern examples: There is no English word for the German word Weltgeist. The English word for a speed bump in the road comes out as a sleeping policeman in chinese. The conscept of a non-conformist in Chines translates into English as an unbridled horse.


3:28. Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them. But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah. S P C

Yusuf Ali's Quran Translation


4:139. Yea, to those who take for friends unbelievers rather than believers: is it honour they seek among them? Nay,- all honour is with Allah. S P C

Yusuf Ali's Quran Translation

4:144. O ye who believe! Take not for friends unbelievers rather than believers: Do ye wish to offer Allah an open proof against yourselves? S P

Yusuf Ali's Quran Translation

Show me where any of those say we are forbidden to have a non-believer as a friend. Don't they all just say that we should not value a non-believer over a believer? Can you see any reason why we should not be forbidden to value non-believers over a believer. Is that not the same as saying to a Christian that he should not place non-Christians over his fellow Christians?
Click to expand...


Brother, can u further eleborate what u mean by non-believer over a believer? plz give me some example of how u view the things. Verse clearly mentions that U should not make friends among non-believer but among believers, its only ur interpretation which leads U to this context. Similer things being done by each and every person to suit his own needs and interest. Ditto for evil doers, thats the point which concerns me, can words of ALLAH be so easy to misuse to spread hatred among HIS own creations?

And plz forgive me, but using ur modus oprandi, each and every verse can be misinterpretated.
 
justahumane said:
Brother, can u further eleborate what u mean by non-believer over a believer? plz give me some example of how u view the things. Verse clearly mentions that U should not make friends among non-believer but among believers, its only ur interpretation which leads U to this context. Similer things being done by each and every person to suit his own needs and interest. Ditto for evil doers, thats the point which concerns me, can words of ALLAH be so easy to misuse to spread hatred among HIS own creations?

And plz forgive me, but using ur modus oprandi, each and every verse can be misinterpretated.
Click to expand...

Using Ali's Translation, which I find to be one of the better ones, I can not see where any of those ayyats forbid a person from having a non-Muslim friend. Perhaps I do not understand English that well I have only been speaking it for 66 years.
All 3 of those ayyats state we should not take nonbelievers as friends rather than believers. In plain simple English we should not prefer non-Muslim friends over Muslims.


3:28. Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them. But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah. S P C

Yusuf Ali's Quran Translation


4:139. Yea, to those who take for friends unbelievers rather than believers: is it honour they seek among them? Nay,- all honour is with Allah. S P C

Yusuf Ali's Quran Translation

4:144. O ye who believe! Take not for friends unbelievers rather than believers: Do ye wish to offer Allah an open proof against yourselves? S P


can words of ALLAH be so easy to misuse to spread hatred among HIS own creations?

to be honest if a person desires to spread hatred an evil doer can use anything as a tool to spread hatred. This is the price we humans pay for having free will.
 
Hi justahumane,
Even though I've referred you to the link, with all due respect, justahumane, it is obvious that you have not read it properly. The very FIRST point mentioned in the article on the issue was that 'Awliyah' does not correspond to the western term 'friend', and yet you repeat THE EXACT SAME MISCONCEPTION towards the end of your post. I don't have time to just repeat myself, so I was hoping you would spend some trying to understand what I wrote in the article, but I suppose things might be clearer for you if I just go through your questions and point out the facts you neglected from the article.

Brief overview - These verses speak about allying with disbelieving forces or parties against the Muslims. Friendly dealings with Non-muslims is a totally different issue and is actually something Islam advocates.

On the issue of companionship, brotherhood, etc...
Islam preserves deep bonds of brotherhood among its adherents. Muslims are united through their servitude to One God, and they support one another, helping each other strive closer in their relationship with God. A Muslim should strive to be in the company of those who will bring him closer to God and help him in his religion. It is permissable for a Muslim to keep company with a non-muslim so long as he is not negatively influences or distracted from his religious duties, but instead uses his good behavior with his companion as a means of sharing with him the beautiful teachings of Islam.
justahumane said:
Brother, I think that U havent explained about all the verses in question, rather U have only explained about 5:51, isint it?
Click to expand...
These verses are a family of verses surrounding the same issue. The same explanation applies.

That verse doesnt apply now and now we can earn bank interest which is not haram according to holy quran. Was he right?
Click to expand...
No, he was wrong. The rulings of the Qur'an always apply, but the ruling of the verse you have asked me about is about alliance with disbelieving forces against Muslims. So that also applies today as well.
Arnt those verses wh ich forbids making friends among non-muslims relevent now and can they be disobeyed?
Click to expand...
This is the part of your post which shows you clearly did not get ANYTHING out of the whole discussion on the meaning of Awliyah and the meaning of the verses. Please, please read carefully next time!

Thanks
 
Woodrow said:
I won't go into why Arabic was selected However the same problem exists in all languages. No language can be translatered accuratly into another language. Often a literal word translation results in the wrong meaning, or trying to express the meaning results in the wrong word. Some modern examples: There is no English word for the German word Weltgeist. The English word for a speed bump in the road comes out as a sleeping policeman in chinese. The conscept of a non-conformist in Chines translates into English as an unbridled horse.


3:28. Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them. But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah. S P C

Yusuf Ali's Quran Translation


4:139. Yea, to those who take for friends unbelievers rather than believers: is it honour they seek among them? Nay,- all honour is with Allah. S P C

Yusuf Ali's Quran Translation

4:144. O ye who believe! Take not for friends unbelievers rather than believers: Do ye wish to offer Allah an open proof against yourselves? S P

Yusuf Ali's Quran Translation

Show me where any of those say we are forbidden to have a non-believer as a friend. Don't they all just say that we should not value a non-believer over a believer? Can you see any reason why we should not be forbidden to value non-believers over a believer. Is that not the same as saying to a Christian that he should not place non-Christians over his fellow Christians?
Click to expand...

Brother, U and brother Ansar are placing different answers to one question, U say that ALLAH is only asking muslims not to value a non-believer over a believer, and brother Ansar says that ALLAH is just asking muslims not to take non-muslims as their protectors........which explanaion is correct in ur views? And Brother Ansar's explanation proves that Yusuf Ali has translated holy quran not so perfectly and there are many mistakes in translation, is this correct?
 

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