Veil related posts and threads combined

[~Stranger~]

i'm sorry if one of our brother or sisters was gonna commit a crime i suppose we all have to support them!

if hes wrong u (try to) fix it

(i wasnt intending to be nasty and if i came acroos like i was, i'm sorry and i hope allah swt forgives me)

we should be careful with we say hun. u wouldnt like someone saying that about u now, would u??

 

[Dahir]

UK Teacher Loses Veil Discrimination Case

CNN

LONDON, England (Reuters) -- A British tribunal ruled on Thursday that a Muslim teaching assistant had not been discriminated against when the school where she worked asked her to remove her veil.

The case of 24-year-old Aishah Azmi against Kirklees Council in West Yorkshire, northern England, has attracted nationwide interest after former foreign minister Jack Straw said Muslim women who wore full veils made community relations difficult.

Straw had said he would prefer women not to wear veils because they acted as a "visible statement of separation and difference."

The veiled Azmi told reporters at a news conference afterwards that her veil, which leaves just the eyes exposed, had never hindered her teaching.

"The veil does not cause a barrier. I can teach perfectly well with the veil on," she said, adding that veiled women were not "aliens".

The publicity surrounding the case has highlighted the sensitive issue of separation among Britain's 1.8 million Muslims.

A growing conviction the government has to tackle segregation in the wake of last year's suicide bomb attacks by British Islamists which killed 52 in London has led ministers to broach a topic once considered too delicate to raise.

Even Prime Minister Tony Blair stepped into the highly charged debate about Muslim women's use of the full veil this week, calling it a "mark of separation".

Headfield Church of England Junior School in Dewsbury had said Azmi should remove the veil in order to communicate. When she refused, they suspended her.

On Thursday, a Kirklees Council official said Azmi's claims of direct and indirect discrimination and of harassment had been thrown out by the employment tribunal.

But, Azmi was awarded 1,100 pounds for victimization and because the council failed to follow grievance procedures correctly.

Azmi's lawyer said they intend to appeal and possibly take the case to the European Court of Justice.

 

[scentsofjannah]

Aw, you went through all those brutes and forgot to compare us to the Nazis? I'm hurt.

i found Ulyses comments offensive too..he/she might as well go on and add the nazis to the never ending list...but hey who cares!

 

[scentsofjannah]

Re: 'Remove full veils' urges Straw

What good is expected from the enemies of Islam?

whats more hurtful and worrying is our own fellow Muslims are doing to the ummah !
take a look at this;

http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,,1924101,00.html

i have read it sister whats wrong with it? i agree with all of her comments regarding the niqab...i know i would be greatly dismayed if any of my sisters or friends wore it...and i would do all that i could to talk them out of it.

 

[David Gould]

I fear the government are pursuing a confrontational course of action to deliberately obstruct our view of the horrendous war crimes they have been party to in Iraq, Gaza and Lebenon.

But the world is waking up to these dangerous people and we will rid ourselves of them soon.

For the record do you see the gov asking Salvation Army people to change their uniform
or priests to remove their dog collar
on nuns their habits
No.
There needs to be more respect shown by Whitehall to people of diverse religion, race and colour. That way only leads to tolerance and friendships.

 

[*noor]

There needs to be more respect shown by Whitehall to people of diverse religion, race and colour. That way only leads to tolerance and friendships.

So true!! I'd rep you but i've given too much reputation in the past 24 hours.

 

[Sum-Muslim-Gal]

:sl;

can i mention somthing here its tooo funny...

my sister n ma cousin wear niqab[veil]...they went shopping today...ma sister had a mop in her hand waiting outside the store...this old lady screams at her saying*stop attackng me*..hahahah...it was soo funny at the time..even though i wasnt there...

but ive gotta say with the veil business on the media...the looks/feelings/comments are soo bad especially if a family memeber wearing one...

MAY ALLAY[swt] PROTECT THE MUSLIM UMMAH..[amin]

 

[Muezzin]

I fear the government are pursuing a confrontational course of action to deliberately obstruct our view of the horrendous war crimes they have been party to in Iraq, Gaza and Lebenon.

So do I, but because I'm Muslim people just dismiss me as paranoid and neurotic if I ever say it.

Darfurians are being massacred, US troops and Iraqi civilians are dying, British troops are being slaughtered in Afghanistan, North Korea's president is proving just how crazy he really is and all anyone cares about is a piece of cloth!

 

[David Gould]

Muezzin, does this not demonstrate why we of diverse religions must speak with one voice when we see the criminal acts being perpetrated by our governments. This is not the time for separatism but for joint action, together we are stronger.

 

[Kamilah]

Re: 'Remove full veils' urges Straw

i have read it sister whats wrong with it? i agree with all of her comments regarding the niqab...i know i would be greatly dismayed if any of my sisters or friends wore it...and i would do all that i could to talk them out of it.

I havent read any of your other comments but going off what you have replied to my post I would just like to say....

why would you talk someone out of carrying out an act of piety? sister dont regard and deed as insignificant, and dont discourage people from doing good...you may be accountable for that on the day of judgement.

have you ever met practising sisters who observe the full Purdah? Masha'Allah they are preserving themselves they are emulating the Ummahat-Ul-Mumineen, if they the superior creation observed the niqaab then why shoudnt we?

be wary of what you say sister, Allah is ever watchful.

 

[Curaezipirid]

CNN

Whoa!

Who do they think they are?

I vote that we should all organise to manifest that when ever there are women being made to remove their veil that we provide a alternative collectively.

Just today this happened to me: I was with my 14 yr old son (yahoo a victory that his dad let him see me for the end of Ramadan!) whom has not been with me in a public place before today since mid 2003. I had two scarves on, one over only my hair and the other over my neck also. When we were saying goodbye he was meeting with a few friends, and before going into that place I took off the top scarf only so as not to alienate his friends or himself in his friend company, and knowing how a scarf can cause, especially teenage boys, to be embarrassed into disregarding a female. The underneath scarf was more common looking and the one on top white. We had just come from Masjid together. First when I took off my over veil I saw another Muslim woman in the distance with a white veil, and looking very white. I hesitated wondering if I had manifested wrongly, and then another Muslim woman walked close by and heading toward me instead of away from, who was only wearing a veil covering her hair, rather than also her neck. My son and I had been discussing the internal regard for Hijab before hand, and so the whole situation was illustrative for himself, which is what my intention had been. So as that he could compare differences in external manfiestation as expressions of the same internal self regard.

So now I am thinking. What else could the teaching assistant wear to illustrate the internal attitude of Hijab? And can every British Muslim, in veil or out of veil, manifest wearing the same thing. Like a cloth that wraps her hair tighter, and a badge that says I am a Muslim. I always also wear a red and blue coloured glass bead that is representative of Hijab in the African tradition.

wasalam

 

[jzcasejz]

Straw Said One Thing...That Started All This
Now U Got All Sortsa Stuff Happening i.e Veils Being Literally Pulled Off :grumbling :enough!:

 

[wilberhum]

Protection for Italy veil row MP
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6078392.stm
An Italian politician will be given police protection following comments she made about the Islamic veil on television.
The MP, Daniela Santanche, from the right wing National Alliance, said the veil was not required by the Koran.
She was labelled an infidel by an imam appearing on the same programme and there are now fears for her safety.
Daniela Santanche recently published a critical book on living conditions for Muslim women called Woman Denied.
She is known for her forthright comments.

 

[Duhaa]

Protection for Italy veil row MP
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6078392.stm
An Italian politician will be given police protection following comments she made about the Islamic veil on television.
The MP, Daniela Santanche, from the right wing National Alliance, said the veil was not required by the Koran.
She was labelled an infidel by an imam appearing on the same programme and there are now fears for her safety.
Daniela Santanche recently published a critical book on living conditions for Muslim women called Woman Denied.
She is known for her forthright comments.

Talking from experience?

..............Naa I don't think so.

But on topic, eveyone's entitled to their opinion as is this MP, and people should understand that two wrongs don't make a right. i.e assuming that the woman is wrong in what she's saying doesn't mean people should go after her to silence her.

Again as so many of you have said, the media is blowing thing's out of proportion concerning the veil. I know a threat to someone's life is nothing to belittle but the whole issue of the veil is something that could have been avoided if the media hadn't got wind if it, so to speak......

 

[Keltoi]

I still don't see the issue with the veil, besides obvious situations requiring a photo ID. This is probably being blown out of proportion by both sides of the issue.

 

[Mohsin]

I still don't see the issue with the veil, besides obvious situations requiring a photo ID. This is probably being blown out of proportion by both sides of the issue.

What do u mean by both sides of the issue? If you eman its being blown out by both muslims and non-muslims, then i agree with you on the part of non-muslims. Jack straw was refrring to a woman in his surgery, and it escalates into your tom dick and harry going on programmes like question time and saying the veil should be completely banned.

As you said, apart from things like passport IDs and driving licences, the veil is not going to harm anyone. Out of 60 odd million people in UK, only 200,000 women wear the niqaab! Why arent people out there discussing more serious issues such as rape, teenage pregnancies, domestic violence, rather than women, who generally keep themselves to themselves, who wear veils.

That is the reason why muslims have reacted to the media coverage this way.

 

[Keltoi]

What do u mean by both sides of the issue? If you eman its being blown out by both muslims and non-muslims, then i agree with you on the part of non-muslims. Jack straw was refrring to a woman in his surgery, and it escalates into your tom dick and harry going on programmes like question time and saying the veil should be completely banned.

As you said, apart from things like passport IDs and driving licences, the veil is not going to harm anyone. Out of 60 odd million people in UK, only 200,000 women wear the niqaab! Why arent people out there discussing more serious issues such as rape, teenage pregnancies, domestic violence, rather than women, who generally keep themselves to themselves, who wear veils.

That is the reason why muslims have reacted to the media coverage this way.

I don't blame any Muslim for their reaction to this issue. I suppose I'm not taking it as seriously because this sort of situation hasn't happened in the U.S. There was one case of a Muslim woman refusing to take off her veil for a photo ID, but this case didn't find its way into American politics. I don't think Americans care if a person is wearing a veil, a hockey mask, or a severed donkey head as long as you don't take a parking spot from them. I suppose this is just a case where American society might actually be more tolerant than the friendly Brits.

 

[Tania]

Jack straw was refrring to a woman in his surgery.

The doctors cover their mouth during the surgery, in certain cases they are wearing even special glasses to protect their eyes.

 

[Curaezipirid]

I had an idea for an integrationist excercise between Muslim Sisters and any group of non-Muslim women motivated to work in equitable account alongside.

Get the non-Muslim women to wear Hijab and go around to daily life locations of their own life and also a Muslim woman's life. But then also get the Muslim women to go through the same experience but with a doctors surgical mask on as well as Hijab, either that or a pirate eyepatch. It could give Muslims sisters a sense of the initial absurdity that women in the west are initially receptive to in the early manifestations of wearing Hijab.

Tony Blair and Jack Straw can eat that porrige. The simple idea of a group of sisters getting about Brisbane or London streets in surgical masks and eye patches at first struck me as so too neat, that I wrote a whole essay to fortify the idea, and posted it as a thread opening among these forums.

Integration a right not a fight!

The possibilities of squeezing out of the Hijab issue any and all residual resentment against Islam are endless and endlessly fortifiable. Every time the Tony Blairs suppose they have won because a Muslim woman took off her veil, they turn around to see her more resilient in the splendour of plain garb.

Why do they put themselves through it I wonder?

wasalam

 

[Umar001]

In honesty I don't get it.

People say it stops the community from intergrating and so forth.

Fair enough, but what sort of intergrationg? One where a man speaks to a woman without need?

Because alot of Muslims wouldn't want that anyway.

I mean, honestly, the veil is for women not to be seen much by whom? Males, so if it's stopping this sort of 'intergration' then surely that is the purpose.

I mean as soon as you want the females to intergrate with other females then the veil wouldnt even be there because they don't have to keep it infront of women.

So theres no fus, if people think Muslim women should 'intergrate' with men more than theres no chance, i think.

But if they want them to intergrate with women, then the veil is no problem.

I mean, it seems this intergration business is just used and people think its the whole community, while the only intergration that is not happening because of the veil, is the coming together of the women with men. Which is something fundamental in Islam.

:?